Is Democracy the best or only way?

[Stravo]

Ok, I'm watching this speech by Bush and he makes the statement that the Iraqi people have consistently spoken out that they want democracy, yet polls I've read from Iraq show a disturbing trend of Iraqis wanting a Shiara like system (Fundamentalist Islam)

When one thinks back to Vietnam and the sheer disbelief some policy planners had that the Vietnamese did not want democracy, at least not the democracy that we were peddling. The question must be raised. Is democarcy truly the best and only way?

Or more to the point, are some cultures simply unable to accept or want democracy? If a majority wants a fundamentalist or even communist type of government is that not democracy in action as well? Have not the people spoken and have they not said we do not want your democracy thank you very much.

Or are they simply wrong and not able to see past their own cultural biases to the inherently better system that is democracy or is it the other way around?

[RedImperator]

All methods devised to govern human society are appallingly bad. This is because humans are called upon to run them. We evolved to govern ourselves in groups of a dozen individuals, but since we invented agriculture we've had to govern thousands or millions of individuals.

Democracy is the best of a bad lot because a hundred million clueless, well-meaning boobs are less likely do horrible things to each other than one smart evil despot.

[The Aliens]

If the States weren't stupid, they would accept that democracy is letting the majority of people decide how, and by whom, they wish to be goverened. If this majority wants fundamentalist rule, how can America force their political system on the Iraqis and still claim it's democratic? And what happens if a fair democratic election slects a despot to run the country?

[Gil Hamilton]

Democracy is the absolute worst form of government... except for every other one we've tried. (paraphrasing Winston Churchill)

[Alyeska]

Democractic Republics are the best form of government because they typicaly allow for protection of the minorities while also giving the will to the majority and not allow dictators to run things.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

Let's not forget the most important part of democracy.
DAMAGE CONTROLE!
Once people get into power that are not fit to use it, removing them is the only option to prevent more damage, and remedy that which is already damaged.. Democracies are the best method to remove the powerful but unfit, with the least amount of colateral damage.
Civil wars and coups are messy things.
Things get blown up and burned. People get killed. Very costly in money and lives. Elections, impeachments, and recalls are so much more eficient.

[Enforcer Talen]

democracy is best.

but they all suck.

[Sarevok]

Democracy is the best form of goverment since everyone has equal rights. In other forms of goverment such as commnunism or dicatorship power is concentrated in the hands of the ruling class only. It is true however that democracy can sometimes become like that if not well managed. Indias democracy is a good example where the Nehru family was in power for over 45 years.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

There is a book called the End of History, but off hand, I forget who the author is. I believe it is some asian guy. He talks about Political Democracy as the end of Political development--the ultimate culmination of events.

[Sarevok]

That book false. The author claims that after the fall of Soviet union history will effectively end as countries around the world embrace the western system. Needless to say this has not happened even 11 years after the book was published.

[Plekhanov]

You also have to ask what Bush means by democracy, when imperialists suggest such a system they generally have a very limited managed democracy in mind. If the Iraqis voted to kick foreign troops out of the country and to sell their oil to France instead of the US will he accept that?

The Vietnamese didn’t trust US rhetoric about democracy with good reason as early on in the conflict the US refused to allow a referendum because they knew the democratic will of the people was against them. In that case US talk of democracy was bullshit all they cared about was stopping communism the alternative simply wasn’t important.

I personally believe that (to paraphrase some now dead clever guy) democracy is the least bad governmental system yet devised and whole heartedly support it but I can understand why the Iraqis would distrust a US imposed democracy.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

That book false. The author claims that after the fall of Soviet union history will effectively end as countries around the world embrace the western system. Needless to say this has not happened even 11 years after the book was published.

In the early pages the book says it ISN'T saying history will end. Things will happen, events will unfold, wars will occur, and nations will experiment with political systems.

He says the history of POlitical development will end. Many countires do embracy western/semi-western systems. There is quite some time left. I don't remember if he gave a specific time-frame. Did he? It doesn't happen overnight. Developing countries have yet to go through the same process it took hundredes of years for developed nations to go through.

I think he said they started with tribal systems, went to dictatorships, monarchies, theocracies (mixes of such) Republics, and then Democracies, socialism and communism. THere is nothing really left that I can think of, but I am sure I am forgetting something.

I doubt he meant history will end and that the world will embrace Democracy immediately--probably eventually though, since it is a sane way of living. MOst of the people on this board commented that Democracy is the best form of government.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Democracy is the best form of goverment since everyone has equal rights. In other forms of goverment such as commnunism or dicatorship power is concentrated in the hands of the ruling class only.

You said this. If it is the best sytem because everyone has equal rights (in theory) and it can work with multiple other political doctrines, like Republics and the like, what else could one have?

One already has freedom, power taken out of the hands of the few and put into the hands of the many, economic and social cooperation between ideologies. What else is there except improved versions of Democracy?

[RedImperator]

That book false. The author claims that after the fall of Soviet union history will effectively end as countries around the world embrace the western system. Needless to say this has not happened even 11 years after the book was published.

Since I'm not a Hegelian, I don't buy into Fukuyama's assertions, but were I one, I would point out that the signal that we're at the end of history is not that everyone has embraced Western democracy but that there is no viable philosophical challenger--no antithesis. Some would argue that Islamic fundamentalism is the antithesis of Westernism, but I would call it totalitarianism's last spasms, not a working antithesis.

[Peregrin Toker]

Democracy is overrated.

It always assumes that the majority is right.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

but that there is no viable philosophical challenger--no antithesis. Some would argue that Islamic fundamentalism is the antithesis of Westernism, but I would call it totalitarianism's last spasms, not a working antithesis.

I think that there is really noting beyond poltical liberal democracy either. I didn't agree with some of his stuff, but I kinda agreed with that. It is hard to fathom what would would improve out of such a system to such an extent as to create something new. I think he was right about the stages of development through time.


Obviously he would be wrong about this assertion that everyone embraces Western Democracy. That is not the case now. Maybe one day, but doubtful. I think people will always have their own version of Democracy once they get to that stage...but I do think eventually they will get there.

Did Fukuyama really say everyone embraced West. Democ as the end of histsory? I cannot remember it fully. I thought his point was on what you commented.

[Mange]

Yes, democracy is the best political system, but you must not forget that the term democracy is cultural dependant i.e. what we in the West defines as democracy isn't necessarily true in other parts of the world. One of the things I learned as a political science student at University is that democracy is very, very difficult to define, both in qualitative and quantitative terms.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Democracy is overrated.

It always assumes that the majority is right.

It might be overrated, but it is what gives people the ability to live prosperously. I would rather be in a Democracy like we have, than in some totalitarian, stalinist government, wouldn't you? It seems more fair and balanced.

1. Oligarchies sucked
2. Republics are good for small governments
3. Monarchies get old and power hungry
4. Dictatorships get out of hand and are intrinsically unequal.
5. Communism is good if you can get everyone to get along and work like they should, but it's unrealistic.

I guess you can find faults with Democracy, but there really isn't anything else that is acceptable or as versatile. You are right in a sense though. A thousand dictators can be as bad as one dictator--given the right circumstances and such.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Yes, democracy is the best political system, but you must not forget that the term democracy is cultural dependant i.e. what we in the West defines as democracy isn't necessarily true in other parts of the world. One of the things I learned as a political science student at University is that democracy is very, very difficult to define, both in qualitative and quantitative terms.

I would agree yea. That is a fundamental difference between different cultures. Take western and eastern civ courses..or just western civ, for example.

The greeks had many variation sof Democracy, not just the Athenian model. I think we learned Sparta even was Democratic, and it was more a model for OUR Democracy than even Athens. Democracy was subjectively unique.

I do, however, think that democracy evolved to get even better than prototypical models.

[BoredShirtless]

No, democracy is not the best way. Can't be the best way. It breeds corruption and greed and marches in lock step with governments objective to scheme and deceive and to fuck other nations up the arse, for some sort of profit. You know, if so called "free and democratic" nations would just stop pandering to big business and inject a little heart into their foreign policy and stop looking at themselves in the mirror all the time, messes like Iraq would not occur.

[Currald]

A pure democracy requires pure transparency in government. This is not viable, as secrets must be kept for the sake of national security.

Corruption is the bane of any democracy.

Here in the US, we see a strong dissonance between Democracy and Capitalism. Capitalism wants to set up little fiefdoms and use the peasants as slave laborers, while democracy wants each person to have equal power. A balance must be acheived for effective governance.

Of course, if we had some Lensmen, who are inherantly incorruptable, we would have someone worth electing. Rod "The Rock" Kinnison from president in '04. Vote Cosmocrat!

[Mange]

Yes, democracy is the best political system, but you must not forget that the term democracy is cultural dependant i.e. what we in the West defines as democracy isn't necessarily true in other parts of the world. One of the things I learned as a political science student at University is that democracy is very, very difficult to define, both in qualitative and quantitative terms.

I would agree yea. That is a fundamental difference between different cultures. Take western and eastern civ courses..or just western civ, for example.

The greeks had many variation sof Democracy, not just the Athenian model. I think we learned Sparta even was Democratic, and it was more a model for OUR Democracy than even Athens. Democracy was subjectively unique.

I do, however, think that democracy evolved to get even better than prototypical models.

No, Sparta wasn't democratic, it was an oligarchy. Likewise, our western democracys have little in common with the Athenian democracy, where only the men over the age of were allowed to vote.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

No, Sparta wasn't democratic, it was an oligarchy. Likewise, our western democracys have little in common with the Athenian democracy, where only the men over the age of were allowed to vote.

It had democracit elements. THe elders councile was elected by an oligarchy.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

No, Sparta wasn't democratic, it was an oligarchy. Likewise, our western democracys have little in common with the Athenian democracy, where only the men over the age of were allowed to vote.

Many sources are swaying away from the athenian democracy toward the new Spartan model.
AHhh forgot this.

Yes. Our Demorcracy was not the Athenian model in that respect. I said that. Our Democracy is OUR version of it. Sparta had its own, Athens had its own, and Democracy has evolved in various nations since then.

[Darth Wong]

Representative democracy is a car careening toward a tree, with a blind man in the driver's seat and a million backseat drivers yelling at him to go either left or right.