The Jenin Massacre

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-05-26 11:46pm

SirNitram wrote: Ooof. Two dozen? Three? I wouldn't put it over a hundred. Mobsters being mobsters.

Just seven acutally.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-26 11:50pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
SirNitram wrote: Ooof. Two dozen? Three? I wouldn't put it over a hundred. Mobsters being mobsters.
Just seven acutally.

See what propaganda does!

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-05-27 12:11am

Elfdart wrote:The other massacres are quite real: Der Yassin, Qibya, Chatilla, Sabran. It's just that Israel's apologists never miss an opportunity to prove that creeps like David Irving aren't the only ones who try to deny well-documented atrocities.

Sabra and Shatila weren't commited by Israeli soldiers, but by the Christian Phalangists. Of course, I'd be pissed as well if some foreign assholes came into what was once a beautiful country and ruined it

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-05-27 12:12am

MKSheppard wrote:Anyway, the Far-Left wouldn't know a REAL massacre, even if it came
up to them and sodomised them:

Alan Clark's Barbarossa wrote: On another occasion, in Minsk itself,

the SD one day took about 280 civilian prisoners from the gaol, led them to a ditch, and shot them. Since the capacity of the ditch was not exhausted, another thirty prisoners were pulled out and also shot . . .

I really wish we could title you "Yet Another Military History Red Herring."

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-27 12:17am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I really wish we could title you "Yet Another Military History Red Herring."

I gave a specific example of an actual massacre rather than
hyped up propaganda bullshit, and you call that a Red Herring?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-05-27 12:21am

MKSheppard wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:I really wish we could title you "Yet Another Military History Red Herring."
I gave a specific example of an actual massacre rather than
hyped up propaganda bullshit, and you call that a Red Herring?

Because it doesn't mean a fucking thing.

Simply stating that there were assholes in WW2 that did bad things doesn't argue shit about the definition of massacre and its modern day examples.

I suppose that genocide isn't genocide unless its comparable to the deaths of six million Jews during the Second World War? Castro's a nice guy because Stalin's a real bastard?

Give me a break. You gave an ideal example of a red herring.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-27 12:24am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Simply stating that there were assholes in WW2 that did bad things doesn't argue shit about the definition of massacre and its modern day examples.

So you are arguing that the regrettable death of noncombatants in
a war zone is equivalent to deliberately marching those noncombatants
out before a wall and having them shot?

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-05-27 12:32am

MKSheppard wrote:So you are arguing that the regrettable death of noncombatants in a war zone is equivalent to deliberately marching those non-combatants out before a wall and having them shot?

Red herring – it may not be as bad as your irrelevant example but it can still be classified as a massacre if a significant number of civilians are killed a military force. Do you seriously think that the Israeli troops in Jenin found the death of Palestinian non-combatants “regrettable” it would be most out of character if they did.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-05-27 12:40am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
Elfdart wrote:The other massacres are quite real: Der Yassin, Qibya, Chatilla, Sabran. It's just that Israel's apologists never miss an opportunity to prove that creeps like David Irving aren't the only ones who try to deny well-documented atrocities.
Sabra and Shatila weren't commited by Israeli soldiers, but by the Christian Phalangists. Of course, I'd be pissed as well if some foreign assholes came into what was once a beautiful country and ruined it

So I guess that means whatever the Lebanese did to drive the US and Israel out was OK, right?

Chatilla and Sabran were the handiwork of the IDF, who allowed the Phalangists to enter the camps. Aryan Sharon even ordered flares to be launched as night fell over the camps and surrounding area so the Phalangists could keep killing into the night. This is all part of the Kahan Report (the IDF's own investigation), which recommended that Sharon never be allowed to control Israeli troops again.

Keep in mind that turning helpless civilians over to local mobs and allowing them to be Klu Kluxed is exactly what the SS did in Riga, Latvia.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-27 01:13pm

Plekhanov wrote: Do you seriously think that the Israeli troops in Jenin found the death of Palestinian non-combatants “regrettable” it would be most out of character if they did.

I'm sure the Palestinian Authority finds it "regrettable", calling people to
swarm into a combat zone precisely so they can get killed and have more
corpses to wave at Israel:

This example is from the recent battle of Rafah, but the same principles
are applicable to Jenin and the other "massacres"

http://www.pmw.org.il/new/Latest%20bulletin.html#200504

PA Called “Women, Children and Elderly”
to Wednesday’s Battle
by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook, May 20, 2004

Introduction
The Palestinian Authority (PA) has been calling since Monday for “women, children and elderly” to stand in front of Israeli bulldozers and tanks in Rafah even though the PA knew Rafah was the site of armed battles between the Israeli army and Palestinian terrorists.

Israel has apologized over the past two days for injuring and killing civilians during Wednesday’s fighting. The civilians were hurt during the Israeli army operation to search for terrorists and missiles that the PA has smuggled from Egypt.

As PMW has reported in the past, the PA consistently urges civilians to put themselves on the front lines in these military situations. In this case, the PA-controlled daily newspaper called specifically for “women, children and elderly” to enter the fray. The PA intentionally placed civilians on the battlefield, and is ultimately responsible for their fate.

The following is from an article in Monday’s PA daily, in which the PA called for “women, children and elderly” to make an “impassable barrier” in Rafah. The call was answered, and thousands of civilians marched into the heart of the battle, thus setting the stage for the accident.

“Ashraf Jumaa , principal of the Abu Iyad school for organizational staff in Rafah, said to Al-Ayyam that the [civilian] march … will be an impassable barrier for the occupation bulldozers, and will prevent their progress to the Rafah neighborhoods… He called for all the citizens women, children and elderly - to participate… He demanded of all the citizens of the Rafah district, who left their homes and abandoned them, to return to those homes and to stay in them… to cause the failure of the occupation’s plans…” [Al-Ayyam, May 17, 2004]