Fed terraforming vs. SW terraforming

[Trogdor]

We know that both the Feds and the Republic/Empire are both capable of it, but who does it more quickly and completely? Can the SW people terraform planets that the Feds couldn't?

I recall on one ep of TNG that one group of scientists claimed that they could terraform a planet in thirty years, but I have no idea how long it would take the Empire or the New Republic to do it.

And of course, exclude the Genesis device. The Feds don't have it anymore and it didn't exactly work the first time as far as creating a world that humans could live on.

[YT300000]

And of course, exclude the Genesis device. The Feds don't have it anymore and it didn't exactly work the first time as far as creating a world that humans could live on.

Actually, it was amazingly successful. It formed a planet out of a gaseous nebula- a planet which remained stable for weeks. Had it had an actual pre-existing planet to work with, the effect would have been similar to the one in phase 2 (the cave).

[Lord Pounder]

IIRC the speed of SW terraforming is never mentioned, just that it was hideously expensive. Terraforming Camassi(sp) was going to bankrupt the Bothan goverment.

[DaveJB]

Actually, it was amazingly successful. It formed a planet out of a gaseous nebula- a planet which remained stable for weeks. Had it had an actual pre-existing planet to work with, the effect would have been similar to the one in phase 2 (the cave).

That was stated in the "Genesis Wave" novels, which aren't canon. Based on David Marcus's dialogue in TSFS, it seems as if either the Genesis process itself or the torpedo version was inherently flawed (difficult to say without knowing what happened to the Genesis Cave).

[Ted C]

And of course, exclude the Genesis device. The Feds don't have it anymore and it didn't exactly work the first time as far as creating a world that humans could live on.

Actually, it was amazingly successful. It formed a planet out of a gaseous nebula- a planet which remained stable for weeks. Had it had an actual pre-existing planet to work with, the effect would have been similar to the one in phase 2 (the cave).

Unsupported claim. The only planetary mass ever created/reorganized using Genesis technology in canon fell apart. There is no canon evidence to indicate that the effect would have been any different on a solid planetary mass than it was on the Mutara Nebula.

According to Saavik, the protomatter used in the matrix is unstable, and David said it was the only way to solve certain technological problems. It is entirely possible that a small reorganization such as we saw in the Genesis cave would remain stable indefinitely while a large reorganization, such as a planet, could never be sustained.

[Mange]

And of course, exclude the Genesis device. The Feds don't have it anymore and it didn't exactly work the first time as far as creating a world that humans could live on.

Actually, it was amazingly successful. It formed a planet out of a gaseous nebula- a planet which remained stable for weeks. Had it had an actual pre-existing planet to work with, the effect would have been similar to the one in phase 2 (the cave).

Hmmm. The Genesis effect used the Regula planetoid to form the planet.

[DaveJB]

Hmmm. The Genesis effect used the Regula planetoid to form the planet.

Doubtful. The Genesis Planet appeared to be forming at the spot where the Reliant had exploded, and I don't recall anything that would suggest that the Regula planetoid had become the Genesis Planet.

[FOG3]

In what condition was the planet they said they could terraform in thirty years?

[YT300000]

And of course, exclude the Genesis device. The Feds don't have it anymore and it didn't exactly work the first time as far as creating a world that humans could live on.

Actually, it was amazingly successful. It formed a planet out of a gaseous nebula- a planet which remained stable for weeks. Had it had an actual pre-existing planet to work with, the effect would have been similar to the one in phase 2 (the cave).

Unsupported claim. The only planetary mass ever created/reorganized using Genesis technology in canon fell apart. There is no canon evidence to indicate that the effect would have been any different on a solid planetary mass than it was on the Mutara Nebula.

According to Saavik, the protomatter used in the matrix is unstable, and David said it was the only way to solve certain technological problems. It is entirely possible that a small reorganization such as we saw in the Genesis cave would remain stable indefinitely while a large reorganization, such as a planet, could never be sustained.

That's true, I suppose. It might not work on a planet-wide scale, but we just don't know.

[YT300000]

IIRC the speed of SW terraforming is never mentioned, just that it was hideously expensive. Terraforming Camassi(sp) was going to bankrupt the Bothan goverment.

Remember though, the Bothan government was already not far from bankrupcty. All it's holdings in the market were fake.

[SirNitram]

IIRC the speed of SW terraforming is never mentioned, just that it was hideously expensive. Terraforming Camassi(sp) was going to bankrupt the Bothan goverment.

Remember though, the Bothan government was already not far from bankrupcty. All it's holdings in the market were fake.

And remember Camassi was Base Delta Zero'd. Having your entire crust melted is going to make it a little trickier to terraform than, say, a desert with polar caps.

[Drooling Iguana]

Why would the Star Wars galay have terraforming? Wouldn't they be more interested in coruscaforming or alderaforming or something along those lines?

[Jetfire]

In what condition was the planet they said they could terraform in thirty years?

I'm not sure which episode, but it was probably the 2nd or 3rd season TNG episode with the crystal-beings on the planet and the Enterprise was there to solve a murder mystery. It's where the line "Bags of Mostly Water" came from I think.

Anyways the planet itself was a desert planet with a layer of liquid water under the desert. I can't recall if the atmosphere was breathable or not though, nor much more about the ep.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I dont think teraforming would be very comon in SW. I would think just finding a planet (or making oen from scratch, a la Death Star minus the Superlaser) would be far easier and cheeper. Or just building a space habitat.

But correct me if i'm wrong.

[Trogdor]

I dont think teraforming would be very comon in SW. I would think just finding a planet (or making oen from scratch, a la Death Star minus the Superlaser) would be far easier and cheeper. Or just building a space habitat.

But correct me if i'm wrong.

Terraforming, or whatever you want to call it when the SW people do it, is mentioned several times in Time Tales. Kuat, for example, was terraformed. I was just wondering if anyone had ever stated how long it took for them to do it, and if the Federation could actually do something better than the Empire/Republic.

[Techno_Union]

Wasn't the Hosk station, and correct me if I'm wrong please, covering the entire surface of a moon? From the EGVV is implies, or at least to me, that this station is sprawled out along a moon's surface. This is not exactly terraforming but it does give some example as to the Republic's and Empire's power of construction/terraforming.

[FTeik]

IIRC the speed of SW terraforming is never mentioned, just that it was hideously expensive. Terraforming Camassi(sp) was going to bankrupt the Bothan goverment.

Remember though, the Bothan government was already not far from bankrupcty. All it's holdings in the market were fake.

And remember Camassi was Base Delta Zero'd. Having your entire crust melted is going to make it a little trickier to terraform than, say, a desert with polar caps.

As far as i remember they were talking about another planet to terraform, not Camass itself.

Aside from the Bothan government being almost bankrupt, keep in mind, that this quote is also made after fifteen years of war and that the economy has suffered a lot.

Also remember the imperial worldships.

[Striderteen]

I dont think teraforming would be very comon in SW. I would think just finding a planet (or making oen from scratch, a la Death Star minus the Superlaser) would be far easier and cheeper. But correct me if i'm wrong.

That's exactly what worldships are, but they're very expensive. Still, the Emperor tended to give them out like party favors to his favorite officials and commanders...

[Chris OFarrell]

Remember though, the Bothan government was already not far from bankrupcty. All it's holdings in the market were fake.

And remember Camassi was Base Delta Zero'd. Having your entire crust melted is going to make it a little trickier to terraform than, say, a desert with polar caps.

As far as i remember they were talking about another planet to terraform, not Camass itself.

Aside from the Bothan government being almost bankrupt, keep in mind, that this quote is also made after fifteen years of war and that the economy has suffered a lot.

Also remember the imperial worldships.

Which aren't teraformed worlds exactly, but small artifical worlds like Death Stars.

But Terraforming is somethig that does not appear to be undertaken lightly even in the time of the Empire. When the President was talking to the Bothens about Teraforming Camass, he noted that it was doen at least three times in the Old Republic. To which Fey'lea says something like 'Done by people with dillusions of wealth and grandure'. And that even the hypothetical Bothan asset listings would be hard pressed to cover the cost of such a venture.

We do know the Genesis technology has been reused on a different scale in DS9 in 'Second Site'. They used a similar protomatter device that created a genesis wave on a star that had exhausted its fuel. The device converted the star back into a mass of hyrdrogen and fusion quckly restarted. I think they mentinoed in the episode that the protomatter devicve had very specific stablising technology that made the protomatter safe to use.

[Chris OFarrell]

Oh and Second Sight was specificaly ABOUT a Terrformer, a slightly egotistical one, who wanted to be the turning of a dead star into a young one to be his greatest acheivement and a tribute that would burn forever. Its not said in the episode, but I get the fealing from the characters that it was only this guys reputation that led the UFP to letting him use the Genesis bassed technology.

But the episode has some interesting facts about UFP teraforming.

[Chris OFarrell]

Basicily :

BASHIR
Terraforming is amazing enough, but
I still don't understand how you
intend to reignite a dead sun.

SEYETIK
(his favorite subject)
Basically... I'll use a remote-piloted
shuttlepod to deliver proto-matter
into the dead star, which'll start a
cascade effect transforming the star's
carbon and oxygen into elemental
hydrogen. Then we'll just stand
back and watch the fireworks.

Which sounnds and looks in the episode an aweful lot like the Genesis wave and its cascade effect. But it doesn't have anything LIKE the complex matrix which forms a specific planet from it, the matrix is a simple conversion of the matter to hydrogen.

But its interesting. And its clear given that this guy still has a job that at least the 'one shot planet in six minuites' implementation of the technology was droped. Probably because as we see in ST4, its waaay to hot politicaly. Its possible smaller scale rearangement on the surface is used ala the Genesis cave...

[Sarevok]

Hmmm. The Genesis effect used the Regula planetoid to form the planet.

Doubtful. The Genesis Planet appeared to be forming at the spot where the Reliant had exploded, and I don't recall anything that would suggest that the Regula planetoid had become the Genesis Planet.

The Reliant exploded in a nebula rather than where the regula planetoid was.

[Lord Poe]

Doubtful. The Genesis Planet appeared to be forming at the spot where the Reliant had exploded, and I don't recall anything that would suggest that the Regula planetoid had become the Genesis Planet.

No, watch Trek2 and 3 again. When Enterprise warped away from Reliant, as the Genesis Wave chased it (tunnel-like effect) we saw no Regula planetoid anymore. And remember, the Enterprise warped out far past where Regula would have been. We didn't see it anywhere near the Genesis planet either in TSFS.

[Darth Wong]

We do know the Genesis technology has been reused on a different scale in DS9 in 'Second Site'. They used a similar protomatter device that created a genesis wave on a star that had exhausted its fuel. The device converted the star back into a mass of hyrdrogen and fusion quckly restarted.

Yeah, they showed fusion restarting ... immediately, and on the surface of the star. Think about that for a moment and ask yourself whether that really makes sense. It looks more like they just ignited some kind of exothermal chain reaction other than fusion on the surface, and there's no way to know how long it would last.

[Prozac the Robert]

SEYETIK
(his favorite subject)
Basically... I'll use a remote-piloted
shuttlepod to deliver proto-matter
into the dead star, which'll start a
cascade effect transforming the star's
carbon and oxygen into elemental
hydrogen. Then we'll just stand
back and watch the fireworks.

Sounds like the federation have invented a perpetual motion type device

I can think of two possibilities, but I like neither very much.

It is vaugely possible that they have collected enough energy to fission an entire stars worth of carbon and oxgygen from elsewhere, but it seems a little unlikely. And also completely pointless.

The other possibility might be some kind of mass energy conversion inside the star leaving the 'new' star with much less mass than the dead star, but if the federation had that kind of technology, why would they need warp cores?