How would Kirk react to Thrawn?

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2004-05-28 02:00am

just as the title says?
how would kirk treat thrawn if they were to meet for negotiations between the federation and empire,

could thrawn trick kirk? or vice versa? would either take the other seriously?

I dont know too much about thrawn, but know a lot about kirk

input?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-05-28 12:16pm

THRAAAAAAAAWWWWNN!

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-05-28 08:02pm

Best Crossover scream, ever.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-05-28 10:13pm

Omega-13 wrote:just as the title says?
how would kirk treat thrawn if they were to meet for negotiations between the federation and empire,

could thrawn trick kirk? or vice versa? would either take the other seriously?

I dont know too much about thrawn, but know a lot about kirk

input?

I hate to break it to all the Kirk-worshippers out there, but while the man is a paragon of masculinity, he isn't the tactical genius that many people think he is. The first time Khan came on his ship, he let the guy view the ship's technical manuals. The second time, he refused to raise shields when approached by a ship which refused to respond to communications. And that is hardly the only foolish breach of security in Kirk's record; when Elaan of Troyius was on his ship he allowed her security guards to wander around the ship unsupervised, when by all rights they should have been under constant surveillance and confined to a non-sensitive area of the ship. In ST3, when they couldn't raise shields with their jury-rigged automation system, it didn't occur to him to ask Scotty to try simply firing more weapons. He just stood there frozen, unable to think or react.

People often cite "Balance of Terror" as some kind of tactical genius in action; what did he do to warrant such praise? Lay down heavy fire in the general direction of the enemy based on sensor readings? Isn't that a fucking obvious thing to do? Play possum? Not exactly a new idea, I'm afraid.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-05-28 10:24pm

The problem is of course that while we've all seen the results of Thrawn's tactical brilliance, we have no idea precicely how it works, nor what its limitations are. Of course, he's still a genius and just going by his record against the NR, I think it's safe to say he'd win this matchup.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-05-28 11:52pm

Let's see...

Empire has more power
Thrawn will be confident and not take any shit from Kirk
Thrawn is male and probably a heterosexual (I'd imagine Palaptine was homophobic in addition to being racist)
Kirk know's he's at a tactical disadvantage
Thrawn is immune to his mascilinity.

Kirk is impressed with him, and Thrawn decides he's just a chick magnet that was lucky to have a decent crew

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-05-29 05:22am

could thrawn trick kirk? or vice versa? would either take the other seriously?

Thrawn wont take Kirk seriously once he learns about the pathetic firepower and shielding of Federation starships.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-05-29 07:09am

Hm, there's a thought...since thrawn has a weird colour of skin....would kirk try to hump him?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-05-29 07:16am

Keevan_Colton wrote:Hm, there's a thought...since thrawn has a weird colour of skin....would kirk try to hump him?

Funny, does anybody remember that Zap Brannigan (who was essentially a Kirk clone) actually had homophobic tendencies?

Zap: "That young man fills me with hope! ...and some other emotions that are weird and deeply confusing..."

So I'd say yes.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-05-29 12:19pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:Hm, there's a thought...since thrawn has a weird colour of skin....would kirk try to hump him?

Funny, my first thought when reading the thread title was 'Kirk would move in to screw Thrawns green woman.'

Vice Admiral · Post by **Vice Admiral** » 2004-05-29 12:42pm

While Kirk isn't much of a tactician, I bet you 25 cents that he has had more women than any other man in the Federation!

and you all seem to be forgetting William Shatners *interesting* singing ability.

Add that to the mix and it is all over for the blue alien,

The Third Man · Post by **The Third Man** » 2004-05-29 01:27pm

Ask Stravo! But here's my suggestion:

From the UFP supreme command POV, Kirk could be a recipe for disaster at negotiations with Thrawn. Kirk is essentially very straightforward in his thinking. Thrawn would obviously notice this and more than likely try to pull a fast one. The problem comes if Kirk rumbles him (and Kirk has something about him in this respect; he has rumbled obscure plots before). Kirk, being the straightforward and direct guy he is, will never trust Thrawn again; probably not even talk to him again. Negotiations have collapsed at that point. Worse, Kirk is a proven rogue - he's likely to take a deceit personally and do something rash and violent. This could be anything between landing one on Thrawn and plunging the UFP into war. (This has always worked out for him in the past of course, but it's not the approach that his superiors at UFP or any sane management would favour.)

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-05-29 02:00pm

Why would you send an Admiral and a Captain to negotiate instead of two diplomats?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-05-29 03:31pm

Ender wrote:Why would you send an Admiral and a Captain to negotiate instead of two diplomats?

Because they already have contracts, the directors looked at the budget and we cant hire anyone else for speaking roles.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-29 06:50pm

Simple solution.

Kirk opens channels and starts singing "Rocketman" followed by "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds."

Cripples every fleet in a ten light year Radius, and Kirk is the winner.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-05-29 09:55pm

ROFL! True, very true.

But Thrawn and his art...
He'll probably analyze the music (if you can call it that), and as everyone else is cringing in agony, he'll predict exactly where Kirk's evasive maneuvers will go, and fire a turbolasers shot that hits directly on the Enterprise's bridge, abruptly ending the singing.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-05-29 11:05pm

Straha wrote:Simple solution.

Kirk opens channels and starts singing "Rocketman" followed by "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds."

Cripples every fleet in a ten light year Radius, and Kirk is the winner.

Or someone presses the mute button ...

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2004-05-30 07:10pm

Thrawns analysis of art, is probably the biggest bullshit in mainstream sci-fi

its just impossible to tell the reactions of a culture by ONE mans art,
everyone reacts differently to different situations,
female, male, upbringing, experience, there are so many factors, some are aggressive, some passive

its just such a big crock of shit, i can't swallow it.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-05-30 07:16pm

Omega-13 wrote:Thrawns analysis of art, is probably the biggest bullshit in mainstream sci-fi

its just impossible to tell the reactions of a culture by ONE mans art,
everyone reacts differently to different situations,
female, male, upbringing, experience, there are so many factors, some are aggressive, some passive

its just such a big crock of shit, i can't swallow it.

Art alone no. Combine art and history and you can actually do alot. Art reflects the times it was made in. So you can gleam certain things from it and over a long enough time span, gain understanding of a cultures reaction to certain stimuli.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-05-30 07:18pm

Ender wrote:Art alone no. Combine art and history and you can actually do alot. Art reflects the times it was made in. So you can gleam certain things from it and over a long enough time span, gain understanding of a cultures reaction to certain stimuli.

And Thrawn certainly knew plenty about history. Like the psuedo-Thrawn Flim said in VotF, "Information is my business".

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-31 05:57pm

Crown wrote:
Straha wrote:Simple solution.

Kirk opens channels and starts singing "Rocketman" followed by "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds."

Cripples every fleet in a ten light year Radius, and Kirk is the winner.
Or someone presses the mute button ...

Once he starts singing it's too late. Thrawn is scr3w3d.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2004-05-31 09:23pm

Straha wrote:
Crown wrote:
Straha wrote:Simple solution.

Kirk opens channels and starts singing "Rocketman" followed by "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds."

Cripples every fleet in a ten light year Radius, and Kirk is the winner.
Or someone presses the mute button ...
Once he starts singing it's too late. Thrawn is scr3w3d.

Thrawn's last words are, of course, "But it was so artlessly done..."

-- Joe Momma

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-06-01 04:32am

Ender wrote:Why would you send an Admiral and a Captain to negotiate instead of two diplomats?

The Empire has diplomats? Perhaps I have seen too many versus, but the usual diplomatic solution of the Empire means some kind of invasion with Thrawn being among the very few Imperial commanders that can negotiate without firing the other part to hell.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-06-01 05:50am

Murazor wrote:
Ender wrote:Why would you send an Admiral and a Captain to negotiate instead of two diplomats?
The Empire has diplomats? Perhaps I have seen too many versus, but the usual diplomatic solution of the Empire means some kind of invasion with Thrawn being among the very few Imperial commanders that can negotiate without firing the other part to hell.

You're kidding yourself; even Lord Vader knew how to negotiate and was a sort of a diplomat. Remember his bargain with Lando? Sure he broke it, but he didn't just go in and blast Cloud City to hell now did he?

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-06-01 05:59am

The Kernel wrote:You're kidding yourself; even Lord Vader knew how to negotiate and was a sort of a diplomat. Remember his bargain with Lando? Sure he broke it, but he didn't just go in and blast Cloud City to hell now did he?

That was only because Vader had an interest in setting a trap for the Millenium Falcon and said trap needed the colaboration of Lando. Solo would have run the hell out of there had he as much as sniffed Imperial activity in Bespin. The empire did not have any interest in blowing an important tibanna gas refinery as Cloud City, but even then they used overwhelming force (lots of stormtroopers in the complex IIRC). It was not a negotiation but an ultimatum.

Sincerely, Imperial commanders are more the warlord kind. They get what they want by force when they can and that's all.

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How would Kirk react to Thrawn?

How would Kirk react to Thrawn?

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