STGOD 4 OOC Thread

[SirNitram]

If I were actually doing that, it would be worse. Since what I'm doing is giving people places to go and blow up, I would wager it's not as bad. Since there's going to be a map on the base if it's captured, it's much less bad.

I don't get it, why would there be a map?

'Cuz even evil robots need to know how to get around space. This being a shipyard facility, they're gonna need maps so the Dreadnought doesn't just futz around in circles, the onboard Programmers debating how many times they've passed that Nebula.

If this is going to degenerate into you claiming every one of my moves is something it isn't, say so now.

I'm telling you how I see your moves as you have presented them. If you want to clarify, please do.

Hey, if people are naive enough to ignore threats like the Ousters, it's not my problem.

See my point to Thirdfain concerning the everpresent threat of your fleets has. Meanwhile, the Ousters have been quite subtle in their moves. Think about it, who would you be more concerned about, insane robots who have no problem throwing away an entire fleet to destroy a single planet, or a group of relatively questionable expansionists who haven't yet started open hostilities, and have done a damn fine job of covering their asses this whole time?

I'd be worried about whichever one is behind me.

That was part of the reason for the Arcanist doublecross. To plant that little seed in minds saying 'Am I sure all my allies are in this fight against the Machines one hundred percent? Am I going to wake up with their fleets and it's on my doorstep?'. This was secondary to the goal it definately acheived, which was dispose of the magic users. But it was there. Instead, everyone's being foolish and thinking no one might be doublecrossing them.

And if no one's doing a damn thing about the shades of grey I have made sure were there and detectable, then it's not my fault and you shouldn't whine at me about the Overseer being a straight evil villain.

Yes, the Overseer is insane. Poor Overseer, I feel so sorry for the paranoid schizophrenic robot. Actions speak louder than words, and the attack on Terra drowns out pretty much everything else you've done with the Overseer.[/quote]

I don't ask you to feel sorry.

You should whine about those who ignore it and simply nod your head to the 'The Overseer is a mindless killing machine' crowd. Then again, the underlying evidence of the whys are wherefores isn't hidden away; maybe you should do something since you claim to prefer such.

Look, I know what you're talking about, and I sympathize with your position somewhat, what with people assuming to know what the Overseer has said his intentions were and such, and the blatant ignoring of the security tapes with Raistlin and discarding them as fake right away is silly. However, the fact remains that none of that changes the fact that you still attacked Earth with a massive suicide fleet, we don't know when you might do it again, or with what, so our primary concern is getting rid of you. You are a clear and present threat to the galaxy.

Damn straight I am. Of course, that no one's reacting to it at all is quite trying, especially when people like you simply say that it doesn't exist at all, try and paint it all in black and white.

Or government propaganda can link them to the Overseer, so it's off to kill our old enemies! Or did the obvious message with the Arcanists not sink in?

It would have worked better if you had developed more than just the one base in Arcanist space, implicated more than just the Arcanists, and had the Arcanists not up and left (which we can't do much about at the moment, sadly). Meanwhile, that thread will continue, but chances are level heads will prevail as things are going now.

You seem to think my political machinations are over. Don't worry, there's more chaos coming.

I hadn't realized Straha had decided to piss away his entire fleet in favor of ground troops, thus giving him not a single way to stop the Overseer. In my mind, I cannot help but conclude it's a painfully ridiculous plan, so I didn't prepare for it.

You could have read his order of battle before you attacked, which would have given you a hint. It wasn't exactly a state secret that his navy sucked.

I was unaware it sucked to the point of being unable to engage an attacking warfleet. That's completely contrary to basic common sense.

The lightning strike on Tycho's nation is because I don't have the forces to go up against fleets, now, not when they pull this ridiculous 'I throw everything AND the kitchen sink into this battle!'.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I enjoyed your slapping Tycho around a bit, he deserved it. Of course, you could have also gone up against Thirdfain, seeing as how he has had his entire fleet away from home since the very beginning of the STGOD.

I could have. Yes, this is so.

'Cuz we know I didn't reveal a base that was ripe for attack and happens to have intel for the gathering.

One base out of...how many? We don't know, and it doesn't matter if you flat out tell us here and now how many you have total, because the end result will be the same no matter what happens, a constant level of paranoia of the unknown forces of the Overseer.

Yep. I'm proud of myself. I've managed to completely change the feel of the game.

[Thirdfain]

How many people know about the raid on Halo, in character? Last I checked, Tycho said his homeworld's location was a secret to everyone except the Krytos, and I don't remember him telling anyone that he was attacked by a smaller force of machines

Same way the Overseer knew about Halo- we took a bunch of Krynor planets. I own a collection, didn't you know? I think it's safe to say that with knowledge of it's location, we'd learn if it was smashed by raiding Machines.

It's still further in the future than the possibility of another strike by the Overseer, which is a far more pressing matter.

Uh, right, exactly! I think ya'll should send your fleets hunting for the Overseer, yessiree.

[Hotfoot]

There are just a couple problems with your philosophy.

1) Evil is relative. According to your nation's morals, the vampires are extremely evil but what they're doing makes perfect sense to them. They believe themselves to be a superior race (which they actually happen to be) and they refuse to slow down for the weak. They take what they need: wealth, labor, resources, blood.

I fail to see how this is a flaw in what I said. It's a shade of gray, albiet a dark one. This goes in line with what I was talking about there being no such thing as pure good or pure evil.

2) The concept of all the powers being roughly equal in strength is unprecedented in history. It has never happened. In fact, an extreme imbalance of national strength has been far more common throughout history.

You're right. Which is why I'm operating under the assumption that there could be twelve, twenty, or even two hundred more Overseer fleets out there, waiting to strike at a moment's notice, rather than assuming like most everyone else is that they couldn't possibly be able to pull off another attack like the attack on Terra for months or years. That's why I'm saying they are an immediate threat, especially given the way they attacked Earth without care of their own losses. You don't do suicide attacks unless you are completely insane, or you have a massive grudge for whatever reason and have the resources to burn in such an attack and are trying to make a point.

[Thirdfain]

You're right. Which is why I'm operating under the assumption that there could be twelve, twenty, or even two hundred more Overseer fleets out there, waiting to strike at a moment's notice, rather than assuming like most everyone else is that they couldn't possibly be able to pull off another attack like the attack on Terra for months or years.

I'll point out that with the exception of my own power, which has been busying itself with all sorts of awful little wars and shadow agreements, everyone has been treating the Overseer as a clear and present danger. The Hajr is running on the assumption that if there were a dozen more Machine fleets running around, we'd have seen them blasting more homeworlds and shipyards while everyone was scrambling to protect Earth- after all, it's what we would have done with those kinds of resources

[Stormbringer]

Actually, the Asgard haven't been doing much save pointing weapons in your general direction.

[Hotfoot]

'Cuz even evil robots need to know how to get around space. This being a shipyard facility, they're gonna need maps so the Dreadnought doesn't just futz around in circles, the onboard Programmers debating how many times they've passed that Nebula.

Okay, so just maps of space then? Because it wouldn't make sense to have maps leading back home while you're still in the embrionic stage, and you wouldn't need maps complete with bookmarks to get around. In fact, it would be perfectly reasonable to assume that the Secondary Programmers have all the important coordinates in their databanks, and could self destruct or erase those at will as soon as the situation became hopeless, or put in fake coordinates to send everyone on a wild goose chase...

I'd be worried about whichever one is behind me.

I don't know where you are. I do know where the Ousters are, and can watch them. That's not hard to do. You, however, are the unseen threat, and you are also very real, and very willing to mess up planets whenever you get the chance.

That was part of the reason for the Arcanist doublecross. To plant that little seed in minds saying 'Am I sure all my allies are in this fight against the Machines one hundred percent? Am I going to wake up with their fleets and it's on my doorstep?'. This was secondary to the goal it definately acheived, which was dispose of the magic users. But it was there. Instead, everyone's being foolish and thinking no one might be doublecrossing them.

Except that you are still the main threat. Traitors can be dealt with later, and so long as they're not actively attacking our worlds, they are simply not the threat you are.

Damn straight I am. Of course, that no one's reacting to it at all is quite trying, especially when people like you simply say that it doesn't exist at all, try and paint it all in black and white.

Unfortunately, the disappearal of the Arcane Empire made the betrayal largely a moot point. It is a thread which will be picked up on shortly, as I have hinted in my previous posts, but it is still one which is still under the shadow of the attack on Earth.

You seem to think my political machinations are over. Don't worry, there's more chaos coming.

I'm sure there is...

I was unaware it sucked to the point of being unable to engage an attacking warfleet. That's completely contrary to basic common sense.

From Straha's OOB

The Monacoran Navy is designed never to ever fight in actual combat, and is positioned in far off space.

Emphasis mine.

Yep. I'm proud of myself. I've managed to completely change the feel of the game.

Yes, thank you so very much. You've doomed it to even more endless political wringing of hands even if we do manage to kill the Overseer. It's just another reason not to go to war, because the Overseer might destroy your homeworld.

[Thirdfain]

The Asgard haven't been doing much period

Of course, that's sensical, as they missed out on the entire Machine invasion of Terra...

[Hotfoot]

I'll point out that with the exception of my own power, which has been busying itself with all sorts of awful little wars and shadow agreements, everyone has been treating the Overseer as a clear and present danger. The Hajr is running on the assumption that if there were a dozen more Machine fleets running around, we'd have seen them blasting more homeworlds and shipyards while everyone was scrambling to protect Earth- after all, it's what we would have done with those kinds of resources

Yes T, I know, you're exceptional.

[Stormbringer]

The Asgard haven't been doing much period

Except for building more guns to point at people.

Of course, that's sensical, as they missed out on the entire Machine invasion of Terra...

What ever do you mean.

[Thirdfain]

Hotfoot, you are being ridiculous. The Overseer has not, by ANY means, killed the game. I know for a fact that there is a LOT of wheeling and dealing going on which doesn't concern itself at ALL with the Overseer. You can choose to start following those story threads if you want to- no one's stopping you.

]Unfortunately, the disappearal of the Arcane Empire made the betrayal largely a moot point. It is a thread which will be picked up on shortly, as I have hinted in my previous posts, but it is still one which is still under the shadow of the attack on Earth.

It's your choice, as a player, to pick a story thread to elaborate on and follow. IF the Overseer one doesn't interest you, then don't follow it.

Darksider' a good example- he hasn't posted once about the Overseer since the collapse of the Arcane Empire, and has instead busied himself fucking about on Ouster client planets, causing trouble and building up towards that inevitable open conflict.

Screw the Overseer! There's plenty of firepower being turned towards him. Persue your own agendas, it doesn't have to be the emphasis if you don't want it to be.

[SirNitram]

'Cuz even evil robots need to know how to get around space. This being a shipyard facility, they're gonna need maps so the Dreadnought doesn't just futz around in circles, the onboard Programmers debating how many times they've passed that Nebula.

Okay, so just maps of space then? Because it wouldn't make sense to have maps leading back home while you're still in the embrionic stage, and you wouldn't need maps complete with bookmarks to get around. In fact, it would be perfectly reasonable to assume that the Secondary Programmers have all the important coordinates in their databanks, and could self destruct or erase those at will as soon as the situation became hopeless, or put in fake coordinates to send everyone on a wild goose chase...

Or conclude that organics would think they would put false maps in there, and therefore put real maps in. Or conclude that the organics would think that they would think that the organics think...

This is why being an insane AI is funny.

I'd be worried about whichever one is behind me.

I don't know where you are. I do know where the Ousters are, and can watch them. That's not hard to do. You, however, are the unseen threat, and you are also very real, and very willing to mess up planets whenever you get the chance.

Yep! I am not sutble. I am the sledgehammer in this STGOD.

That was part of the reason for the Arcanist doublecross. To plant that little seed in minds saying 'Am I sure all my allies are in this fight against the Machines one hundred percent? Am I going to wake up with their fleets and it's on my doorstep?'. This was secondary to the goal it definately acheived, which was dispose of the magic users. But it was there. Instead, everyone's being foolish and thinking no one might be doublecrossing them.

Except that you are still the main threat. Traitors can be dealt with later, and so long as they're not actively attacking our worlds, they are simply not the threat you are.

And you think these traitors(If they exist) will sit idle if the Overseer Homeworld is attacked?

I was unaware it sucked to the point of being unable to engage an attacking warfleet. That's completely contrary to basic common sense.

From Straha's OOB

The Monacoran Navy is designed never to ever fight in actual combat, and is positioned in far off space.

Emphasis mine.

Maxima mea culpa. It worked for the real purpose of the attack: Getting everyone really riled up and frothing for when I double-cross the Arcanists, thus ensuring that, even if they could smash the Overseer, they would get steamrolled by the combined forces of Lifekind.

Or hadn't I explained that one? Of course the Rape was meant to piss people off: Otherwise you won't attack the Arcanists!

Yep. I'm proud of myself. I've managed to completely change the feel of the game.

Yes, thank you so very much. You've doomed it to even more endless political wringing of hands even if we do manage to kill the Overseer. It's just another reason not to go to war, because the Overseer might destroy your homeworld.

Then the few factions which aren't paralyzed with fear will take advantage and wake everyone else up.

[Hotfoot]

Hotfoot, you are being ridiculous. The Overseer has not, by ANY means, killed the game. I know for a fact that there is a LOT of wheeling and dealing going on which doesn't concern itself at ALL with the Overseer. You can choose to start following those story threads if you want to- no one's stopping you.

It's not killed the game, but it's set it back, and is currently hampering progress as I see it. We have enough reasons not to go to war from the setting alone (trying to rebuild following the Genocide Wars), this is just another reason to tack on to the list.

Meanwhile, the fact remains that this is a hugely prominant story thread. To ignore it is to lead to your downfall, as was proven by Alyrium quite nicely. I am keeping tabs on the other threads that are going on, but they still pale to the in-game importance of this one.

]It's your choice, as a player, to pick a story thread to elaborate on and follow. IF the Overseer one doesn't interest you, then don't follow it.

Which only makes me a target for it later. I'm playing this in characer as much as possible anyway, and I've given you my in-character reasoning for being concerned. To just up and ignore it from this point would be metagaming on my part.

Screw the Overseer! There's plenty of firepower being turned towards him. Persue your own agendas, it doesn't have to be the emphasis if you don't want it to be.

Plenty of firepower? Unless you know what firepower he's got, there's no way to know if it's enough, and if numerous nasty wars break out, that firepower aimed against him is essentially eliminated, and he comes back with a vengeance.

[Hotfoot]

Or conclude that organics would think they would put false maps in there, and therefore put real maps in. Or conclude that the organics would think that they would think that the organics think...

This is why being an insane AI is funny.

Which in the end could result in us spending massive resources to capture something which has no value, multiple times, then eventually giving up and blasting up the ones you deem to be good, by complete random chance. Why? You're insane. Believe me, I had a nice little plan for capturing a few of your bases, and they will be used eventually, but it doesn't change the fact that you could easily fuck us over for trying. This is what I don't understand. On the one hand, you're saying you'll lay low because it's smart, but then the next moment you're saying you'll do something stupid because you're insane. It seems to me sometimes like you're saying, "Sure, I'll give you a chance...oh, wait, changed my mind, haha, you're fucked!" That probably isn't your intention, I'd imagine, but that's how it comes across to me.

Yep! I am not sutble. I am the sledgehammer in this STGOD.

The unseen invisible sledgehammer nobody can see and (most) everyone is afraid of.

And you think these traitors(If they exist) will sit idle if the Overseer Homeworld is attacked?

Depends on the situation, doesn't it? If they realize that there is very little chance they'll win, they might betray the Overseer and help destroy him to show their loyalty. Otherwise, you're right, they may attack on their own, but to what end? Unless someone is so massively unwise as to send everything they have against the Overseer, or the traitors are so stupid as to send everything they have against the loyal machine killers, it will be a bog standard war. Defenses will hold, fleets will fight, so on and so forth, and the traitors will be brought out into the light for all to see.

Maxima mea culpa. It worked for the real purpose of the attack: Getting everyone really riled up and frothing for when I double-cross the Arcanists, thus ensuring that, even if they could smash the Overseer, they would get steamrolled by the combined forces of Lifekind.

Or hadn't I explained that one? Of course the Rape was meant to piss people off: Otherwise you won't attack the Arcanists!

Well, congrats, you killed the Arcanists. Only the "attack" was rather half-assed, and the only reason it worked was that they turned tail and ran away rather than face up to what they did. Of course, there was already a huge laundry list of reasons to hate the Arcanists. You're going to have to try a lot harder to incriminate others (I have a few ideas there, if you're interested, by the by).

Then the few factions which aren't paralyzed with fear will take advantage and wake everyone else up.

Depends on how they do it, but it still slows down the progression of hostilities quite a bit, like I said.

[SirNitram]

Or conclude that organics would think they would put false maps in there, and therefore put real maps in. Or conclude that the organics would think that they would think that the organics think...

This is why being an insane AI is funny.

Which in the end could result in us spending massive resources to capture something which has no value, multiple times, then eventually giving up and blasting up the ones you deem to be good, by complete random chance. Why? You're insane. Believe me, I had a nice little plan for capturing a few of your bases, and they will be used eventually, but it doesn't change the fact that you could easily fuck us over for trying. This is what I don't understand. On the one hand, you're saying you'll lay low because it's smart, but then the next moment you're saying you'll do something stupid because you're insane. It seems to me sometimes like you're saying, "Sure, I'll give you a chance...oh, wait, changed my mind, haha, you're fucked!" That probably isn't your intention, I'd imagine, but that's how it comes across to me.

I am trying to do both. The smart thing to do is lay low in the outskirts. The insane thing to do is think that the Organics would not possibly screw with a system marked 'Home'(Not the actual designation; it will not be simple, but even the fake maps will show the homeworld.. In a roundabout fashion.).

The insane genius thing is to think yourself so clever you can leave a hint and giggle to yourself when you assume no one's gotten it. Therefore, there will be a hint in the false info. A big hint.

And you think these traitors(If they exist) will sit idle if the Overseer Homeworld is attacked?

Depends on the situation, doesn't it? If they realize that there is very little chance they'll win, they might betray the Overseer and help destroy him to show their loyalty. Otherwise, you're right, they may attack on their own, but to what end? Unless someone is so massively unwise as to send everything they have against the Overseer, or the traitors are so stupid as to send everything they have against the loyal machine killers, it will be a bog standard war. Defenses will hold, fleets will fight, so on and so forth, and the traitors will be brought out into the light for all to see.[/quote]

And things won't be half as dull as you seem to indicate they must be.

Then the few factions which aren't paralyzed with fear will take advantage and wake everyone else up.

Depends on how they do it, but it still slows down the progression of hostilities quite a bit, like I said.[/quote]

Perhaps in your case.

[Alyrium Denryle]

We are generally on a quasi war footing, for no other reason than because around 80% of the federal bufget is for the military...

~540 trillion current USD... but that is being a bit liberal... and not taking in colonies... or the laffer curve...

[Hotfoot]

I am trying to do both. The smart thing to do is lay low in the outskirts. The insane thing to do is think that the Organics would not possibly screw with a system marked 'Home'(Not the actual designation; it will not be simple, but even the fake maps will show the homeworld.. In a roundabout fashion.).

The insane genius thing is to think yourself so clever you can leave a hint and giggle to yourself when you assume no one's gotten it. Therefore, there will be a hint in the false info. A big hint.

Fair enough. I'll still go with my current plans, of course.

And things won't be half as dull as you seem to indicate they must be.

Yes, assuming that there are honest to goodness traitors out there. In character, I suspect there are, and will be following up on that later. Out of character, I'm highly skeptical.

Perhaps in your case.

I'd say a whole, with a few notable exceptions, most hostilities ceased in the immediate aftermath of the Rape of Terra. Almost every power in Known Space at the time banded together to help aid Monacora, and offered to help eliminated the Mechanoids.

Things are still progressing, but are doing so slowly, as now powers are being ever careful not just of the foes they can see, but the ones they can't. I'm willing to play along, because you've presented it, but fact is you chose to throw away the bulk of your fleet at Earth. That should cost you, and should take you a considerable amount of time to rebuild. If you want to work it out with Pablo that you get 2, 4, 6, even 8 times the normal starting forces so you can effectively be the big bad threat everyone has to unite against to beat, hey, go nuts. I'm already assuming in game you've got some advantage like that anyway.

[SirNitram]

I merely don't want to wait for several years before I can act again. I'm willing to wait a bit longer, and I've not clamoured very loudly about waiting so far.

[Hotfoot]

I merely don't want to wait for several years before I can act again. I'm willing to wait a bit longer, and I've not clamoured very loudly about waiting so far.

Given that numerous nations are currently spending their time rooting out your shipyards and such, I'd say the time until your next action is directly linked to the next major interstellar war, regardless of how many ships you've finished at that point. Given the actions of Thirdfain and a few others, I'd bet on that being in the next several months.

[InnocentBystander]

We are generally on a quasi war footing, for no other reason than because around 80% of the federal bufget is for the military...

~540 trillion current USD... but that is being a bit liberal... and not taking in colonies... or the laffer curve...

Perhaps I missed something, but why would a federal republic be even partially mobilized? I don't recall reading anything about civil problems which would require significant military forces or outside threats which have created an ever present threat.
Also, 80% of your budget goes to military spending; that's a bit excessive for a republic during peace time, don't you think?

[Hotfoot]

Perhaps I missed something, but why would a federal republic be even partially mobilized? I don't recall reading anything about civil problems which would require significant military forces or outside threats which have created an ever present threat.
Also, 80% of your budget goes to military spending; that's a bit excessive for a republic during peace time, don't you think?

He's a libertarian state, remember?

[Alyrium Denryle]

We are generally on a quasi war footing, for no other reason than because around 80% of the federal bufget is for the military...

~540 trillion current USD... but that is being a bit liberal... and not taking in colonies... or the laffer curve...

Perhaps I missed something, but why would a federal republic be even partially mobilized? I don't recall reading anything about civil problems which would require significant military forces or outside threats which have created an ever present threat.
Also, 80% of your budget goes to military spending; that's a bit excessive for a republic during peace time, don't you think?

When a government exists only to protect its citizens inherent rights to life liberty and propery... yeah... No social programs or entitlements... The military gets just about everything.

Basically, we keep our ships updated witht he latest technology, retrofits etc... have a constant "You are at our beck and call" contract with the military branches of general Products and Paradigm Particle Tech, Kalist Defense SubSystems etc etc....

Basically, partial mobilization. we arent building ships constantly, but parts are in the warehouses and we have a ready supply of troops.

[Dahak]

I'm not on a war footing, per se. I just raised my numbers slightly to not be under-gunned, should it ever come to conflict.
But if rampant, blatant fleet build-ups are now the rule, I should correct the numbers upward...

[InnocentBystander]

We are generally on a quasi war footing, for no other reason than because around 80% of the federal bufget is for the military...

~540 trillion current USD... but that is being a bit liberal... and not taking in colonies... or the laffer curve...

Perhaps I missed something, but why would a federal republic be even partially mobilized? I don't recall reading anything about civil problems which would require significant military forces or outside threats which have created an ever present threat.
Also, 80% of your budget goes to military spending; that's a bit excessive for a republic during peace time, don't you think?

When a government exists only to protect its citizens inherent rights to life liberty and propery... yeah... No social programs or entitlements... The military gets just about everything.

Basically, we keep our ships updated witht he latest technology, retrofits etc... have a constant "You are at our beck and call" contract with the military branches of general Products and Paradigm Particle Tech, Kalist Defense SubSystems etc etc....

Basically, partial mobilization. we arent building ships constantly, but parts are in the warehouses and we have a ready supply of troops.

No public services?
Let’s see now what does that entail?
No welfare - High poverty rate
No public police force - High crime rate
No public healthcare system - Disease is a problem, rampant in cities
No government interference in the economic process - Corporate Trusts dominate all markets
No public waste management system – Garbage everywhere

Sound’s like a fun place to live.

[Straha]

Perhaps I missed something, but why would a federal republic be even partially mobilized? I don't recall reading anything about civil problems which would require significant military forces or outside threats which have created an ever present threat.
Also, 80% of your budget goes to military spending; that's a bit excessive for a republic during peace time, don't you think?

When a government exists only to protect its citizens inherent rights to life liberty and propery... yeah... No social programs or entitlements... The military gets just about everything.

Basically, we keep our ships updated witht he latest technology, retrofits etc... have a constant "You are at our beck and call" contract with the military branches of general Products and Paradigm Particle Tech, Kalist Defense SubSystems etc etc....

Basically, partial mobilization. we arent building ships constantly, but parts are in the warehouses and we have a ready supply of troops.

No public services?
Let’s see now what does that entail?
No welfare - High poverty rate
No public police force - High crime rate
No public healthcare system - Disease is a problem, rampant in cities
No government interference in the economic process - Corporate Trusts dominate all markets
No public waste management system – Garbage everywhere

Sound’s like a fun place to live.

To be fare Welfare, Healthcare, and Waste could be dealt with in a non-public manner, and would probably be dealt with rather efficently without government beurocracy.

[Alyrium Denryle]

No welfare - High poverty rate

Nope, our people are altruistic. Think Japan. The entire extended famiy works to support their family unit. Not only that, but without all the taxes, people keep more of what they make, spend it, and busness increases, providing jobs etc etc etc.

No public police force - High crime rate

What do you think the rest of the taxes go for? Wait... could that be courts and cops?

ANd there are these little things called private police forces hired by municipalities. I am talking about the FEDERAL budget.

No public healthcare system - Disease is a problem, rampant in cities

There is this wonderful thing called insurance... ANd we have laws aganst frivelous lawsuits so doctors dont have to charge so much to make up for their own ensurance costs. By the way... my home town has more MRI machines than all of QUEBEC!!!

No government interference in the economic process - Corporate Trusts dominate all markets

Name ONE non-government monopoly in human history.

No public waste management system – Garbage everywhere

Private companies take care of that as well.