Hamas Motorcycle of Doom (TM)

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-29 08:25pm

Small linky

Senior Hamas Leader Is Killed in Blast in Gaza City

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: May 29, 2004

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) -- An explosion destroyed a motorcycle in Gaza City early Sunday, killing a founder of Hamas' military wing, his aide and a bystander.

Hamas charged that Israel was responsible for what it called a "dirty assassination crime."

It said the attack killed Wael Nassar, 38, one of the founders of the Hamas military wing Izzedine al-Qassam. His assistant, Mohammed Sarsour, 31; and an unidentified bystander were also killed, Hamas said.

The two Hamas leaders were on the motorcycle when it exploded, witnesses said.

It was not immediately clear what caused the explosion. Witnesses said they saw a flash in the sky and then the motorcycle exploded, indicating an Israeli missile strike. The residents said they did not see any Israeli helicopters in the sky, though they heard an unmanned Israeli plane.

The Israeli military refused to comment.

Hospital officials said seven people were slightly wounded, including a woman and three children.

The explosion was in the Zeitoun neighborhood, scene of heavy fighting between Israeli forces and Palestinians earlier this month. That fighting broke out after Palestinians blew up an Israeli armored personnel carrier, killing six soldiers.

Outside the hospital, angry Palestinians, most of them Hamas supporters, chanted "God is great." Amplified statements from local mosques mourned Nassar.

One of Nassar's brothers was killed when Israeli forces assassinated Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi on April 17, and seven other relatives were killed in earlier clashes with Israeli forces, Palestinians said.

*******************

Funny. Israel keeps poppign these guys, where's the suicide bombing
retalitations?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-05-29 08:44pm

I think that Israel has finally hurt Hamas enough that they are unable to retaliate. I remember reading a news article that said their bomb making skills had suffered considerably from all the assissinations.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-05-29 09:08pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:I think that Israel has finally hurt Hamas enough that they are unable to retaliate. I remember reading a news article that said their bomb making skills had suffered considerably from all the assissinations.

Has Israel beaten the suicide bombers?
By Patrick Bishop

small linky

Israelis are beginning to hope that daily life may be returning to something like it was before the Palestinian uprising. In Tel Aviv, which prides itself on being fun, the bars are full at weekends. Crocodiles of Christian and Jewish tourists are once again thronging the narrow streets of Jerusalem's Old City.

The more relaxed mood has a simple explanation. It is three months since the last serious terrorist attack.

The army says there were 25 such attacks in 2002, which killed 147 people. Last year there were 20, killing 141. So far this year there have been only two, in which 19 died.

The Israelis are starting to believe that their tactics are working. Palestinian groups fighting them tend to agree.

The question is whether the trend marks an irreversible improvement or is merely a lull while the militant groups, decapitated again and again, regroup and rethink.

One reason cited for the decline in attacks is the barrier being built to separate Arab and Jewish territory.

"If you want to keep mosquitoes out, then you need a screen on the windows," said Dr Hanan Shai, a military strategist and reserve colonel in the Israel defence forces who has the ear of some top-ranking officers.

"The screen is the separation barrier." But whatever the claims made for the barrier, it is too early to judge as the project is incomplete. Palestinians say it is not a serious deterrent. "The wall can't stop operatives," said Usama al-Ayasseh, author of a book on suicide bombers. "It has many holes in it."

Both sides agree that the main factor in the decline in activity is Israel's success in killing or capturing the leadership of the most militant groups.

Sources close to Hamas, which is responsible for many of the suicide attacks, say that in the West Bank, from where most operations were launched, the organisation has been badly hit.

"There is no money to finance operations," said one. "Many of the leaders are gone and it is difficult to replace them. Hamas needs at least two years to rebuild."

Only one senior figure, Ibrahim Hamad, the Hamas commander in the Ramallah area, is still at large, having survived numerous attempts to capture or kill him.

A local Hamas boss in Qalqilya was killed on Thursday. Some leaders have retreated to Syria. Offensive operations are "drying up the swamp", says Dr Shai.

At the heart of his thinking is the notion of separation and exclusion. "If you want to stay human in the war against terror, the only way is to isolate the enemy," he said.

The barrier will mean great hardship for many Palestinians, who feel imprisoned behind barbed wire and checkpoints, barely able to work or move. But Israelis have no qualms in putting security above Arab rights.

Even the most enthusiastic backers of the barrier admit that it is not a long-term answer. Safety from this kind of attack ultimately depends on a dearth of volunteers willing to sacrifice themselves. In this respect, an end seems a very long way off.

In a cool, marble-floored house overlooking Bethlehem this week two middle-aged men kept each other company, as they often do since the loss of their children.

Mohammed al-Akhras is the father of Ayat, who shortly after her 18th birthday walked into a supermarket in Jerusalem and blew herself up, killing a guard and a Jewish girl of her own age, Rachel Levy.

Twelve days earlier Ishaq al-Nabtiti's 24-year-old son Akram detonated a bomb near a bus in north Jerusalem, wounding nine Israelis.

Ayat was intelligent. Akram was looking forward to getting married. Searching for clues as to what happened, both men come back to the same answer.

Shortly before she struck, Ayat saw a neighbour in the Dheisheh refugee camp shot dead by Israelis while he held a six-month-old girl. Akram watched troops blowing in the door of a house, killing the woman who lived there.

"It was vengeance for the criminal acts of Israel," said Mr al-Nabtiti. "They saw the killing of men and women, the raids on homes and took revenge."

The al-Nabtiti family had their home demolished in reprisal for Akram's actions. Mr al-Akhras, a retired schoolteacher, seems tired rather than angry. He just wants the violence to stop.

"We don't want any more killing. We stand for the principles of humanity. One army defeating another doesn't get anyone anywhere. The important thing is for humanity to win."

He was speaking after a week in which the Israeli army killed eight peaceful demonstrators in the Gaza town of Rafah, mostly young boys. Others who saw the carnage will make their own minds up about how to react.

And, judging by the numbers of adolescents at the Islamic Jihad mourning rallies, it will have no shortage of recruits.

Motivation will never be a problem as long as there is an Israeli occupation. "The suicide bombings are not finished," said Mr al-Akhras.

"They are just waiting for a chance."

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-05-29 09:42pm

I can't recall whether or not it was on this board, but somebody suggested that Israel had successfully killed so many active HAMAS members, their ability to make car bombs had dropped to nearly zil.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-05-29 09:50pm

Axis Kast wrote:I can't recall whether or not it was on this board, but somebody suggested that Israel had successfully killed so many active HAMAS members, their ability to make car bombs had dropped to nearly zil.

I've mentioned that a few times, I read it in Time magazine I believe.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-05-30 01:51am

Good on them. I'm tired of hearing this shit about how we gotta win these assholes "hearts and mind" because if you're mean to them, you're just "creating more terrorists." Fuck you, no organization can function when everyone in it is dead.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-05-30 02:49am

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Good on them. I'm tired of hearing this shit about how we gotta win these assholes "hearts and mind" because if you're mean to them, you're just "creating more terrorists." Fuck you, no organization can function when everyone in it is dead.

Yes, the net effect of Hamas' top brass getting systematically whacked by Israel is overall good (Hamas is totally unreasonalbe, and would be a wrench in the gears if and when the peace process is restarted). Unfortunately, Israel's method of going after these fuckers is a tad messy, and results in the death or injury of too many innocent bystanders.

Now, if only Arafat would suffer a mysterious "accident"

...

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-05-30 04:39am

You know, I really hate agreeing with your right-wing nutjobs, but I think you may have a point here. Hamas certainly does seem to have lost its ability to retaliate, but I'm not sure if this is due to lack of organization or simply better Israeli checkpoints protecting their settlements.

In any case, I don't think it is the kind of situation that can last. You can break the back of an enemy like this but then when its least expected they'll hit back even harder. Seriously can anyone say that they saw 9/11 coming? Who the hell expected that we'd get hit in such a massive operation by foreign terrorists?

Anyways, this might be a temporary fix, but I don't think killing Hamas members is going to be much of a permanent solution.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-05-30 05:14am

The Kernel wrote: Anyways, this might be a temporary fix, but I don't think killing Hamas members is going to be much of a permanent solution.

Hamas does not have an infinite supply of leaders. Al Qaeda was mostly left unchecked before 9/11. I think it may be a permanent solution considing Israel has been doing this for a long time.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-05-30 06:36am

The Kernel wrote: In any case, I don't think it is the kind of situation that can last. You can break the back of an enemy like this but then when its least expected they'll hit back even harder. Seriously can anyone say that they saw 9/11 coming? Who the hell expected that we'd get hit in such a massive operation by foreign terrorists?

Is that a fair comparison? I don't think that the US had been taking out many Al Qaeda leaders before 9/11, as Israel has done with Hamas.

Its not going to stop all bombings, as you'll still get random people who just want revenge. One of them is likely to get through eventually.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-05-30 09:33am

My only possible comment on this, is that atlast my family near qalqiliya will be safe, currently, this thing is showing results, no more metal checks in schools, and less time to actully enter malls.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-05-30 09:52am

I'm suprised no one's mentioned them blowing up a bystander.

Oh, sorry, collateral damage is fine...nevermind carry on.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2004-05-30 10:46am

At this point sadley its expected for Isreal to fire anti-tank missles at motorcycles on crowded streets and that everyone will be "fine" with that

Nevermind the mountain of shit you would be in if tried anywhere else in the world except maybe some of the more oppressive regiemes

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-05-31 04:21pm

Mr Bean wrote:At this point sadley its expected for Isreal to fire anti-tank missles at motorcycles on crowded streets and that everyone will be "fine" with that

Nevermind the mountain of shit you would be in if tried anywhere else in the world except maybe some of the more oppressive regiemes

Just look north from Israel to the remnants of Hamah to see how some other nations deal with problems like this.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-05-31 04:35pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Just look north from Israel to the remnants of Hamah to see how some other nations deal with problems like this.

Or the great buffalo herds in the Midwest...

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-06-01 02:49am

I'm just tired of the defeatist whining you get from certain corners, people who seem to think you can't beat an enemy who's angry and doesn't give a shit. As the Japanese showed us in WW2, anyone will cave if you dump enough shit on their heads. Anyone. It's just a matter of how much shit they'll take, versus how much you're morally/politically willing to give.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-06-01 06:56pm

The Kernel wrote: In any case, I don't think it is the kind of situation that can last. You can break the back of an enemy like this but then when its least expected they'll hit back even harder. Seriously can anyone say that they saw 9/11 coming? Who the hell expected that we'd get hit in such a massive operation by foreign terrorists?
.

I did. When the Cole got bombed, I said "We better retaliate." My roommates at the time were just totally bored by politics, and I ended up arguing that if the US didn't do anything we'd have buses blowing up and more Oklahoma City-type bombings. They just said "Whatever" and "Not in this country." They didn't want to think about anything, just watch Nascar shit.

I hope now they pay attention to the events around them.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-06-02 03:53am

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:I'm just tired of the defeatist whining you get from certain corners, people who seem to think you can't beat an enemy who's angry and doesn't give a shit. As the Japanese showed us in WW2, anyone will cave if you dump enough shit on their heads. Anyone. It's just a matter of how much shit they'll take, versus how much you're morally/politically willing to give.

Try and remember something. Japan surrendered after the moderates in her cabinet, and the Emperor about faced and forced the hard core militants to surrender.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-06-02 04:27am

PainRack wrote: Try and remember something. Japan surrendered after the moderates in her cabinet, and the Emperor about faced and forced the hard core militants to surrender.

Only after a city a day was being destroyed by the B-29s under LeMay, and
two A-Bombings, were the moderates able to find the balls, along with
the Emperor, to tell the militants to STFU and negotiate a surrender.