STGOD 4 OOC Thread

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-30 02:26pm

Name ONE non-government monopoly in human history.

Ummm.... Microsoft?

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-30 02:28pm

Thirdfain wrote:
Name ONE non-government monopoly in human history.
Ummm.... Microsoft?

No, Microsoft isn't really that much of a Monopoly.

Now Intel, on the other hand, is a monopoly.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-30 02:45pm

Straha wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:
Name ONE non-government monopoly in human history.
Ummm.... Microsoft?
No, Microsoft isn't really that much of a Monopoly.

Now Intel, on the other hand, is a monopoly.

No, they have competition in the form of AMD and a few other companies, like Apple

Microsith is also not a monopoly, there are other operting systems like Linux and Mac OS

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-05-30 02:57pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Nope, our people are altruistic. Think Japan. The entire extended famiy works to support their family unit.

Japan has free public education and medical care, genius. Those two things have a very large effect on the ability of the lower classes to care for themselves.

Not only that, but without all the taxes, people keep more of what they make, spend it, and busness increases, providing jobs etc etc etc.

Voodoo economics, eh? Dumb. The people who contribute the most real money to the national economy (the lower and middle classes, who spend a much larger proportion of their income rather than saving or reinvesting it) are the people who would gain the least from a libertarian tax system.

What do you think the rest of the taxes go for? Wait... could that be courts and cops?

ANd there are these little things called private police forces hired by municipalities. I am talking about the FEDERAL budget.

Fine.

There is this wonderful thing called insurance...

Medical insurance and care tends to be much less expensive for the average person when provided by the government as opposed to being paid for individually.

ANd we have laws aganst frivelous lawsuits so doctors dont have to charge so much to make up for their own ensurance costs. By the way... my home town has more MRI machines than all of QUEBEC!!!

Tort reform?

Name ONE non-government monopoly in human history.

Standard Oil?

EDIT:
And I don't want to play semantic games about what constitues a monopoly. Standard Oil had the ability to set its prices, tell its suppliers how much they could charge, and decide how much that they would pay the railroads to transport their oil. That's a monopoly.

Private companies take care of that as well.

When you're dealing with something like trash disposal or other public services, the greatest economy comes with scale, and no organization scales as well as a national government.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-05-30 03:05pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
No welfare - High poverty rate
Nope, our people are altruistic. Think Japan. The entire extended famiy works to support their family unit. Not only that, but without all the taxes, people keep more of what they make, spend it, and busness increases, providing jobs etc etc etc.

That's great until your entire family is living on welfare. Without a public education system you'll start to see whole families of illieterate people. People who are illiterate cannot function in society, public education is really very important. Without it the chances of getting out of a welfare state are nil. Think falkenburg's legion, most of the populations lived on welfare, and it was so difficult to break out of the welfare state most people didn't evne bother, but even then, there was public education to aid the real go-getters. Here you have no way of breaking out, anyone who falls below a certain line just flushed their lives and the lives of all generations to come down the crapper.

No public police force - High crime rate
What do you think the rest of the taxes go for? Wait... could that be courts and cops?

ANd there are these little things called private police forces hired by municipalities. I am talking about the FEDERAL budget.

So there are some public services.

No public healthcare system - Disease is a problem, rampant in cities
There is this wonderful thing called insurance... ANd we have laws aganst frivelous lawsuits so doctors dont have to charge so much to make up for their own ensurance costs. By the way... my home town has more MRI machines than all of QUEBEC!!!

Insurance is a great thing, unfortuantly it costs money, something which people living on welfare generally can't afford.

Name ONE non-government monopoly in human history.

Your saying Standard Oil wasn't a monopoly? Ha! Funny.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-30 03:10pm

Japan has free public education and medical care, genius. Those two things have a very large effect on the ability of the lower classes to care for themselves.

It is just a cultural similarity. Lessens the effects of poverty.

Voodoo economics, eh? Dumb. The people who contribute the most real money to the national economy (the lower and middle classes, who spend a much larger proportion of their income rather than saving or reinvesting it) are the people who would gain the least from a libertarian tax system.

DO I have to go into says law again? In order to spend and make money, one must produce a good or service.
If a business is not taxed as much, they will be able to open up more factories, hire new workers, raise wages, AND invest in other businesses so that they can do the same.

Medical insurance and care tends to be much less expensive for the average person when provided by the government as opposed to being paid for individually.

really? That is one massive income tax... And again, without the tax on business, the insurance will be cheaper.

Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Nope, our people are altruistic. Think Japan. The entire extended famiy works to support their family unit.

Japan has free public education and medical care, genius. Those two things have a very large effect on the ability of the lower classes to care for themselves.

Quote:
Not only that, but without all the taxes, people keep more of what they make, spend it, and busness increases, providing jobs etc etc etc.

Voodoo economics, eh? Dumb. The people who contribute the most real money to the national economy (the lower and middle classes, who spend a much larger proportion of their income rather than saving or reinvesting it) are the people who would gain the least from a libertarian tax system.

Quote:
What do you think the rest of the taxes go for? Wait... could that be courts and cops?

ANd there are these little things called private police forces hired by municipalities. I am talking about the FEDERAL budget.

Fine.

Quote:
There is this wonderful thing called insurance...

Medical insurance and care tends to be much less expensive for the average person when provided by the government as opposed to being paid for individually.

Quote:
ANd we have laws aganst frivelous lawsuits so doctors dont have to charge so much to make up for their own ensurance costs. By the way... my home town has more MRI machines than all of QUEBEC!!!

Tort reform?

Quote:
Name ONE non-government monopoly in human history.

Standard Oil?

Even if they can se their prices.... it still is not a monopoly due to the fact that they DID have competition. They could set their prices in much the same way that Dell sets thiers, LOW. Because if they didnt, people would choose their competition.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-30 04:04pm

OOB for my battle fleet at Rendevous point:

Monacoran 8th Fleet
Commander: Admiral Santiago
(All former Jardanian Ships)

2 Dreadnaughts
1 Battle Carrier
5 Heavy Cruisers
2 Light Cruisers
50 Frigates
75 Destroyers

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-30 04:48pm

Hi. Posting from Cork, Ireland. Internet cafe's about to close. I'll try and catch up on the story thread.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-30 05:27pm

OOB for my Fleet at rondezvous point: The same fast-assault squadron I used at Camaro- the 2cnd War Cluster's 1st Carrier Swarm and 1st Cruiser Swarm.

1st Carrier Swarm- (CO Subadmiral Atja su Miitgar, hero of the Battle of Camaro Wanna kill off another of my named characters?)
2 Elysium Ascendent-class Attack Carriers (Soldier's Duty, Inevitable Ascendence)
10 Tarsis- class Escort Frigates
3 Knife- class Raiding Frigates
30 Vampire-class Torpedo Frigates

1st Cruiser Swarm
4 Expansion of Civilization- Strike Cruisers
3 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-05-30 05:32pm

Well, for what it's worth it I throw a small token force into the ring.
1 Dreadnought
3 Battle cruisers
5 Attack carriers
5 Heavy cruisers
20 Fast destroyers
10 Light Carriers

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-05-30 05:35pm

BatCruRon 6

AINS Repulse
AINS Hood

4x Heavy Cruisers

BatCruRon 7

AINS Star Knight
AINS Gustav
AINS Scharnhorst

4x Heavy Cruisers

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-30 06:00pm

Exact numbers, stats, and squadrons of the newly formed 4th, on ti's way to Elysium for maneuvers.

Fourth War Cluster:
CO: Bondwoman Admiral Miyako su Kynisnet
Fleet Tender: Divinity of Purpose

1st Cataphract Swarm:
2 Destiny of Man-class Cataphracts (Diaspora's Harbinger, Heroic Sacrifice)
10 Tarsis- class Escort Frigates
10 Knife- class Raiding Frigates
10 Vampire- class Torpedo Frigates

1st Carrier Swarm
2 Elysium Ascendent-class Attack Carriers (Red Queen, Swift Predator)
10 Tarsis- class Escort Frigates
20 Vampire-class Torpedo Frigates

2cnd Carrier Swarm
2 Elysium Ascendent-class Attack Carriers (Slayer of Weaklings, Crimson Fang)
10 Tarsis- class Escort Frigates
20 Vampire-class Torpedo Frigates

1st Cruiser Swarm
4 Brief Life Burns Brightly- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

2cnd Cruiser Swarm
4 Brief Life Burns Brightly- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

3rd Cruiser Swarm
4 Brief Life Burns Brightly- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

4th Cruiser Swarm
4 Brief Life Burns Brightly- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

5th Cruiser Swarm
4 Brief Life Burns Brightly- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

Total Numbers:
2 Cataphracts
4 Attack Carriers
20 Cruisers
50 Torpedo Frigates
50 Escort Frigates
50 Raiding Frigates

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-05-30 07:24pm

Forces Sent to the Rendevous point -
A detachment from the 1st Expeditionary Fleet, currently in the Sol Region
1 Ship of the Line Dreadnaught
1 Homeworld Battlecrusiers
2 Classic Heavy Crusiers
2 Patrician Cruisers
2 Megaron Destroyers
10 Republic Frigates
25 Escort Corvettes

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-30 07:42pm

Alright, seeing as how we're rushing this assault mind if we say that no more nations are going to be able to join in this assault?
If so I'll post the "we're on our way" post in about thirty minutes.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-30 07:43pm

Yes, sounds good to me.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-05-30 07:44pm

And I'll be about to move on to a healthy dose of sleep in a few minutes

Which means I'll post my fleet's reaction to whatever happens in the meantime tomorrow.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-05-30 07:44pm

Forces Sent to Rendezvous point:

1. Battleship [VNS Persephone]
1. Drone Carrier [VNS Cerberus]
2. Battle Cruiser [VNS Ares, VNS Malice]
2. Heavy Cruisers [VNS Throne, VNS Apollo]
10. Heavy Destroyers
10. Destroyers
15. Heavy Frigates
15. Frigates

edit 1: missed a ship

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-30 07:47pm

By the way, I'd like everyone to applaud Marcao, this is his first game-thread post EVER to be under approximately 4,023,241,515,515,351,341,400 pages long. Congratulations!

Seriously, I think it's a sign your getting long of tooth, old son!

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-05-30 07:50pm

Thirdfain wrote:By the way, I'd like everyone to applaud Marcao, this is his first game-thread post EVER to be under approximately 4,023,241,515,515,351,341,400 pages long. Congratulations!

Seriously, I think it's a sign your getting long of tooth, old son!

Oh hush.

To be honest, I wanted to tag along a massive VNN post, but I am simply not feeling creative enough right now. I suppose, the multiple Sam Adams I just consumed, may be having a part to play in that matter. I should have another post later tonight, so never fear. The verbosity shall continue.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-30 07:52pm

I wonder if any of my Drunken Diplomacy from STGOD 2 is still lying around...? It was right after the Grand Alliance crumbled into dust around me, and I was absolutly hammered trying to make the point that the neutral nations wouldn't be able to stan dup to shit without some sort of unifying alliance... I think I literally misspelled every single word I wrote.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-30 08:15pm

3 dreadnoughts

9 cruisers

3 carriers

30 missile destroyers

45 fast destroyers.’

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-05-30 10:29pm

I am sending half of my fleet along. Take my OOB, divide down the center. Half is already in Overseer space. The other half is coming along with everyone else.

And, for clarity sake, I would like to indicate that it will take a week for everyone to get to the Overseer. I know this hasnt been formally discussed, but here's how I figure....

Known space is REALLY BIG. Thus, the area around known space would be really bigger. What does that mean? It means simply that the Overseer cant be all around the "outside of known space" area. Thats a big fuckin shell to cover. So he has to be clustered in one particular space, which through posting has kinda evolved to be "near Shi space" (remember the first Overseer hit after the Rape) and "A week outside known space" (The probes found this spire out there, neh?) So it is safe to say that all finds of the overseer would be in that general area. To say differently would be silly. You're elusive, Niotram, but you're not omnipresent.

The way I figure is this.... we start beating on what we find out there, then use that point as the center locus of future searches, adn we will quickly uncover what systems are Nitrams. I will expand on this strategy in future in-game posts, seeing as how I am the one with the fleets leading the way here.

Any objections to this conception of where the Overseer can be found? Speak now, or forever hold you peace...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-30 10:39pm

Just one problem: You never considered the possibility the Overseer kept it's shipyards and homeworld seperate, so one would survive if the other got found. It is a paranoid computer.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-05-30 10:42pm

SirNitram wrote:Just one problem: You never considered the possibility the Overseer kept it's shipyards and homeworld seperate, so one would survive if the other got found. It is a paranoid computer.

They cant be THAT far away from each other, all things considered. However, I would be more than willing to accept that the homeworld is not in the main clustering, if that is how you want it. But we can get most of your shipyards by searching the area where we have found you already.... right?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-30 10:53pm

I posted a force declaration for the BIC a long time ago, when I first hit the CoG. I'll reiterate.

Basque Industrial Conglomorate

Openly, the BIC is a large investing corporation with slightly less than a hundred subsidiary corporations, ranging from major civilian mining companies to a factory in Jardanian space which makes small plastic models of factories. It is one of the top ten wealthiest corporations in Known Space, with holdings on a dozen worlds and major offices on Catalonia, Nashtar, and Earth, as well as hundreds of smaller offices across the core Known Space systems. The large and popular United Systems News corporation is a well-known BIC subsidiary. It's broad international base affords it a great deal of freedom.

For the most part, this image is correct. BIC's status as a front for the Hajr's intelligence apparatus is far less well known. The vast majority of the BIC's employees certainly don't know. The fact remains- many key members are deep-cover Hajr agents, and the BIC runs safe-houses and transfer points, usually through fronts and double- or triple blinds, on a number of independent worlds as way-stations for Hajr agents. The BIC's vast network of subsidiaries allows covert financing to many of the Hajr's projects, such as the revolt on Ix'agal.

It's safe to say that any damning evidence against the Hajr is going to be well-guarded, by the best modern security troops and, in some cases, such as the more involved front-corporations which funnel weapons and arrange business deals for the CoG rebellion, guarded by Blackeyes and other elite Ouster agents.

-edit- It should be noted- the BIC was founded eight years before the arrival of the Hajr at the Hudson system, as part of the preliminary work done scoping Known Space out for the diaspora.