Anakin Skywalker vs. Connor MacLeod

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Okay, two of the best swordsmen in Sci-Fi (I know, Highlander is technically fantasy, but then again, a case could be made that SW is as well). The fight is set sometime after the events of the original Highlander, and MacLeod has mastered The Prize. Both are armed with the same weapon, e.g. both have lightsabers or both have katana. Who would you give this one to and why?

[Stormbringer]

Okay, two of the best swordsmen in Sci-Fi (I know, Highlander is technically fantasy, but then again, a case could be made that SW is as well). The fight is set sometime after the events of the original Highlander, and MacLeod has mastered The Prize. Both are armed with the same weapon, e.g. both have lightsabers or both have katana. Who would you give this one to and why?

Either way Anakin/vader goes down. He fights for power only and against some like MacLeod he'd be killed quick.

[Kuja]

MacLeod would win.

Sayonara DV/AS

[Joe]

MacLeod wins with a katana, but Anakin wins with a lightsabre.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

MacLeod wins with a katana, but Anakin wins with a lightsabre.

Care to explain why? Hardware differences aside, the fighting style is nearly identical.

[Joe]

If you don't know what you're doing with a lightsabre, you can easily lose a limb. Unless Connor has time to train with the weapon, he's not going to be able to get accustomed to the massless blade before Anakin has a chance to remove his head.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Of course, that would mean that Anakin would be on the receiving end of a serious Ginsu experience if the two are using katana, because the blade's added weight and different handling characteristics would throw his techniques way off as well as slowing him down.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Anakin uses power fighting techniques. If he could manhandle the blade well enough he would win. However skilful you are, a fast powerful swing is very hard to block.

[Connor MacLeod]

I might bea bit biaseda bout this...

Maybe you should specify timeframe (which movie) - does he have the PRize or not, etc..

Cuz if its "endgame" era Connor, he's dead and Anakin wins

[Stormbringer]

Anakin uses power fighting techniques. If he could manhandle the blade well enough he would win. However skilful you are, a fast powerful swing is very hard to block.

Only if it's well directed. The problem is Anakin sacrifices control and finese for sheer power. His technique isn't that good. Look what Dooku did to him, he's out of his league against a good swordsman. Against someone that's been living by the sword for a few centuries, he's going to get himself killed quick.

[XaLEv]

I might bea bit biaseda bout this...

Maybe you should specify timeframe (which movie) - does he have the PRize or not, etc..

Cuz if its "endgame" era Connor, he's dead and Anakin wins

Read the OP again, carefully.

[2000AD]

If it's mcleod after he has the prize then he will be mortal and not IMmortal. Therefor he can be killed in many ways and not just decaptitaion.

There's two ways of discussing this in my mind:
1) The lightsabre cleaves through the Katana leaving one very surprised, and dead, mcleod.
2) We assume the Katana can withstand the lightsabre for the purposes of fairness and not to make it boring.

If we go with number 2 then i don't know who would win. Both are brilliant swordsman and both are The One.

[Vendetta]

MacLeod wins with a katana, but Anakin wins with a lightsabre.

Care to explain why? Hardware differences aside, the fighting style is nearly identical.

Not really.

Lightsabre fighting is much closer to fighting with a Shinai than a real Katana. There's much more drawing back of the blade to strike cleanly than striking around it after a block. Like a Katana, a 'sbre wouldn't require much momentum to score a killing blow, so any situation where you'd blocked the enemy's sabre and yours was between theirs and their body should be a near certain kill, but no-one's ever exploited that, they draw back to clash again.

Because the (early) combat was based more on Kendo, where an attack like that is rarely going to be a scoring attack due to the very formal rules, you see very little of it.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

I might bea bit biaseda bout this...

Maybe you should specify timeframe (which movie) - does he have the PRize or not, etc..

Cuz if its "endgame" era Connor, he's dead and Anakin wins

It's after the original Highlander and he has the Prize. CTFP

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

MacLeod wins with a katana, but Anakin wins with a lightsabre.

Care to explain why? Hardware differences aside, the fighting style is nearly identical.

Not really.

Lightsabre fighting is much closer to fighting with a Shinai than a real Katana. There's much more drawing back of the blade to strike cleanly than striking around it after a block. Like a Katana, a 'sbre wouldn't require much momentum to score a killing blow, so any situation where you'd blocked the enemy's sabre and yours was between theirs and their body should be a near certain kill, but no-one's ever exploited that, they draw back to clash again.

Because the (early) combat was based more on Kendo, where an attack like that is rarely going to be a scoring attack due to the very formal rules, you see very little of it.

But there's also a pretty serious difference between kendo (a sport) and kenjutsu (the real thing). We have to assume that since MacLeod has been studying since 1536, he's probably been studying the real thing, and not the sport.

[Vendetta]

But there's also a pretty serious difference between kendo (a sport) and kenjutsu (the real thing). We have to assume that since MacLeod has been studying since 1536, he's probably been studying the real thing, and not the sport.

That's my point. The original Lightsabre style is much closer to Kendo, as a lot of the attacks that could be used if you were just trying to kill the opponent with a blade of great cutting power (which doesn't need swinging hard to go clean through a target) don't appear in Star Wars, they tend to draw back and go for more 'orthodox' strikes.

If you learn duelling in Kenjutsu, you learn how to get around a block by outwitting your enemy, and you don't see that done just with swordsmanship in SW, it seems more about reflexes, which come out more in Kendo because there are only a limited number of point scoring strikes, and hence a limit to your tactical options, and a limit to the things you have to guard against.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

But there's also a pretty serious difference between kendo (a sport) and kenjutsu (the real thing). We have to assume that since MacLeod has been studying since 1536, he's probably been studying the real thing, and not the sport.

That's my point. The original Lightsabre style is much closer to Kendo, as a lot of the attacks that could be used if you were just trying to kill the opponent with a blade of great cutting power (which doesn't need swinging hard to go clean through a target) don't appear in Star Wars, they tend to draw back and go for more 'orthodox' strikes.

If you learn duelling in Kenjutsu, you learn how to get around a block by outwitting your enemy, and you don't see that done just with swordsmanship in SW, it seems more about reflexes, which come out more in Kendo because there are only a limited number of point scoring strikes, and hence a limit to your tactical options, and a limit to the things you have to guard against.

Kenjutsu, however, allows for strategies that are not so clean or nice as the ones to which a Kendo player is limited. The Go Rin No Sho illustrates the difference between Kendo and Kenjutsu more clearly than I can hope to do here. Suffice it to say that when Musashi speaks of his own school in relation to other schools, he may be said to be comparing kenjutsu with kendo.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

That's true. Kendo is about style, not winning(okay, winning in style). Kenjutsu means anything that works is used.

THing is, Anakin cheats like a bastard, and McLeod doesn't use kenjutsu (or does he? I'm not sure) so it comes down to a contest of luck and (cheating and exploitative) skill.

[Stormbringer]

That's true. Kendo is about style, not winning(okay, winning in style). Kenjutsu means anything that works is used.

THing is, Anakin cheats like a bastard, and McLeod doesn't use kenjutsu (or does he? I'm not sure) so it comes down to a contest of luck and (cheating and exploitative) skill.

Connor uses a bastardised form. He doesn't use any one style (according to the martial arts experts I know) but it's supposedly fitting for his weapon and personal style.

[Joe]

Also, is Anakin completely denied force powers (other than heightened sensitivity and reflexes) in this battle? If not, than he can very quickly disarm Connor of whatever weapon he has and make the kill.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Also, is Anakin completely denied force powers (other than heightened sensitivity and reflexes) in this battle? If not, than he can very quickly disarm Connor of whatever weapon he has and make the kill.

For the purposes of a swordfight, we should assume that heightened sensitivity and reflexes are his limit here.

[AdmiralKanos]

Even if he doesn't disarm Connor, he can use the Force to limit Connor's movements, blocking him and slowing him down. This is a common Jedi tactic (invisible, but clearly described in the AOTC novelization).

Also, he has superhuman strength. Again, this may not be obvious against another Jedi, but against a normal human, immortal or not, he can cleave him in two (need I remind everyone of how Jedi could easily leap several stories up in TPM?). Even the most lightning-quick reflexes won't do you any damned good when your opponent has ten times your strength and the ability to telekinetically limit your movements. Even if you get your blade up to block him, he'll just carry through anyway, and cut you in half. It would be like trying to parry against a car.

Or are we also removing his Force-enhanced strength? Why don't we just tie one arm behind his back and put a blindfold on him?

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

That's true. Kendo is about style, not winning(okay, winning in style). Kenjutsu means anything that works is used.

THing is, Anakin cheats like a bastard, and McLeod doesn't use kenjutsu (or does he? I'm not sure) so it comes down to a contest of luck and (cheating and exploitative) skill.

Connor uses a bastardised form. He doesn't use any one style (according to the martial arts experts I know) but it's supposedly fitting for his weapon and personal style.

This is true, and since I did specify that it was post-Highlander only, I've locked out any chance of letting him have the Kenjutsu and sorcery training he got from his teacher in Highlander: Endgame. D'oh!

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Also, is Anakin completely denied force powers (other than heightened sensitivity and reflexes) in this battle? If not, than he can very quickly disarm Connor of whatever weapon he has and make the kill.

I was discussing this with a friend of mine last night. If Anakin had access to the Alter powers (TK, etc.) he could disarm McLeod, throw saber and disarm McLeod (and disleg and possibly dishead), grip the sucker, throw him off balance and do an Obi-Wan finishing stab, Force Ligthning the guy, toss him off a clif, etc.

Even without these powers (I.E he's only allowed to use the Sense (prescience, etc.) powers) Anakin can simply anticipate each of McLeod's moves and change his blade's movements to compensate.

[Stormbringer]

Even if he doesn't disarm Connor, he can use the Force to limit Connor's movements, blocking him and slowing him down. This is a common Jedi tactic (invisible, but clearly described in the AOTC novelization).

Also, he has superhuman strength. Again, this may not be obvious against another Jedi, but against a normal human, immortal or not, he can cleave him in two (need I remind everyone of how Jedi could easily leap several stories up in TPM?). Even the most lightning-quick reflexes won't do you any damned good when your opponent has ten times your strength and the ability to telekinetically limit your movements. Even if you get your blade up to block him, he'll just carry through anyway, and cut you in half. It would be like trying to parry against a car.

Except Anakin doesn't have anything other than the pre-cog reflexes and sensitivity. Those might give him an edge but he's a sloppy swordsman and he can only do so much. He could know a blow is coming and not necessarily be able to block it.

And look at the fight between the Kurgan and Connor. They were driving swords through steel pipes, scaffolding and other scenery. That'd take a lot of power. Enough to match Ani, I'd say.