STGOD 4 OOC Thread

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-06-01 08:50pm

I still bristle at the idea that you've been able to build fine replicas of Hajr warships just in the 5 months since I've made my presence known.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-01 08:54pm

InnocentBystander wrote:And, while I'm at it. I only see Hajir duplicates, why don't you have any asgard models? It would be considerably easier to duplicate that, considering there are things like former asgard fiefdoms and what-not all over space.

Actually, there are most certainly not. The only colonies of Asgard orgin that are not still members would the daughter colonies Thirdfain has seized. And those probably wouldn't have proper Asgard ships anyway. More like ex-Kokand castoffs.

And of course the OU and the Asgard were allies, so that could well influence their thinking as well.

PS: And technology the OU would have from the Asgard would be at least a century or more out of date. So there are some signficant technical differences by this point between them.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-06-01 09:05pm

Thirdfain wrote:I still bristle at the idea that you've been able to build fine replicas of Hajr warships just in the 5 months since I've made my presence known.

I may decide to what on those, and choose someone else instead... KSE possibly...

Going after the Monocorans would be difficult due to the fact they don't have much of a Navy, and I wouldn't be able to effectively mimic his Army.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-06-01 09:12pm

Beowulf wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:Ah, and that raises another question, how does one of these things come back to life after it's been incinerated?

And, while I'm at it. I only see Hajir duplicates, why don't you have any asgard models? It would be considerably easier to duplicate that, considering there are things like former asgard fiefdoms and what-not all over space. You can't just join the game with the intent of taking down the Ousters; aside from not making much sense, it's quite lame.

It uses a bit of what is of what is known as magic to avoid the whole needing cellular respiration. It also takes care of the coming back to life after the last body was incinerated. Considering that another power already is able to do that, albeit with technological means, it should be allowable.

I don't have the intent of just taking down the Ousters, it's one of the goals however. The reason why my nations has been working on Hajr duplicates, is because they are very visible, and bear a remarkable resemblence to the enemies of the OU.

As to the whole not dying thing, I do have the downside of having the smallest population in the game, aside from the Overseer...

If the not needing food bit is too much, I'll get rid of it though.

The problem, you see, is that I believe it goes beyond the tech level.
In the case of Gladsheim(sp?) they have a massive infrastructure designed for the sole purpose of preserving the minds of individuals, and all society is based around this. In the case of the Ravenlock's, it's an intensive procedure conducted infrequently, similar to taking an image of your hardrive, a time consuming, and taxing process that you only do now and then. These are all fine. Now if it's "magic" like the kind alyrium uses, then you've got to be very careful, it can easily pass the DS9 tech level.

For instance, no need for cellular respiration; I'm not sure if that's in the tech level, but I strongly suggest you drop that. That would be very detectable to virtually all scanners, especially medical ones, and believe me, everyone has to go in for a physical now and then, especially people in the military.

Now for the coming back to life, please elaborate on this. Is it like one of the other nation's, or different? All you say is easily, which, I'll point out, does not follow the trend.

Now I really don't think I can comment on shape shifting, I do know that in all of star trek it is rare and only seen in a few species, all of which are not seen very frequently. As such, I don't know if it's right to have an entire race of them, but that's the moderator's call, not mine. Either way, a shape shifter would have properties which might be noticeable by scanners as well; again that's the mod's call.

Ability to survive without foot, water, air. I really don't like that idea, but I'd like to know the mod's opinion on this. I happen to think that such amazing abilities would surely be noticeable by scanners.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-06-01 09:13pm

I may decide to what on those, and choose someone else instead... KSE possibly...

Going after the Monocorans would be difficult due to the fact they don't have much of a Navy, and I wouldn't be able to effectively mimic his Army.

That might be more sensible, as you would have had a century of chaos in which to infiltrate the Krytos, as opposed to the scant few months available to infiltrate the Hajr.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-06-01 11:10pm

Stormbringer wrote:Thirdfain, simply saying I use this kind of drive, you can't doesn't make a very good case. People are allowed to have overlapping tech after all.

I'm still not sold that Beowulf can perfectly imitate your ships but I don't think the notion of claiming exclusive use of a particular technology is fair either.

*coughs*

Stormbringer wrote:EEC-Laser,Graser: These are the latest in weapons technology among the Asgard. Developed under the strictest secrecy (aka no stealing it!) it is essentially a standard energy weapon's beam enclosed in a hyperfield. This creates an FTL beam weapon and prevents the degredation of the shot along the hyperguide. At the moment they are relatively power intensive and so only the largest warships mount them at all and even then their cycle rate is some what less than a convention graser.

Emphasis mine.

So, can I have it then?

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-06-02 05:45am

Two things.

1.-I'm preparing yet another magical civilization inspired in the sartan from the Deathgate series. Which "technological"-demographic limits must I be aware of?

2.-May someone fill me with whatever has happened in the last month or so, please?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-06-02 10:50am

Murazor wrote:Two things.

1.-I'm preparing yet another magical civilization inspired in the sartan from the Deathgate series. Which "technological"-demographic limits must I be aware of?

DS9 tech is the limit, and standard tech, not artifact.

2.-May someone fill me with whatever has happened in the last month or so, please?

A lot has happened.
Jardinians left, came back, and now under control of Monacora.
CoG has been destroyed, but there is a great deal of civil unrest and resistance, the people didn't approve of the occupation.
The arcanists have left, it is common knowledge that they were in cahouts with the machines.
The machines, I should mention, virtually destroyed Earth. Presently it's citizens are being relocated into archologies as the planet slowly becomes uninhabitable.
A joint fleet, under the Monacorans has destroyed a machine shipyard and taken it's chief AI for further study.
-There's more, I highly suggest you read the entire thread. Unless you see 2 people chatting, and if you see anything about Mel Brooks or WW2, just ignore it.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-02 12:01pm

Hotfoot wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Thirdfain, simply saying I use this kind of drive, you can't doesn't make a very good case. People are allowed to have overlapping tech after all.

I'm still not sold that Beowulf can perfectly imitate your ships but I don't think the notion of claiming exclusive use of a particular technology is fair either.
*coughs*

Stormbringer wrote:EEC-Laser,Graser: These are the latest in weapons technology among the Asgard. Developed under the strictest secrecy (aka no stealing it!) it is essentially a standard energy weapon's beam enclosed in a hyperfield. This creates an FTL beam weapon and prevents the degredation of the shot along the hyperguide. At the moment they are relatively power intensive and so only the largest warships mount them at all and even then their cycle rate is some what less than a convention graser.
Emphasis mine.

So, can I have it then?

You're missing a bit of difference. Had some one's OOB included that I would haven't objected in the least. (That's tech overlap like Dahak using Starfire drive missle and Frigidmagi using a version of Honorverse missles).

However I meant that the technology was a closely guarded secret and so moronic intelligence operations like what Laz so often conducted wouldn't have a prayer at getting them.

Do you understand the difference?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-06-02 12:24pm

Stormbringer wrote:You're missing a bit of difference. Had some one's OOB included that I would haven't objected in the least. (That's tech overlap like Dahak using Starfire drive missle and Frigidmagi using a version of Honorverse missles).

All well and good, but mimicry like what Beowulf is claiming would allow him access to any and all techs by that logic, without having to spend the time to infiltrate and properly adapt. If I started a nation which had every advantage of every other nation, and the ability to choose when I had it, it would be a bit silly, wouldn't you think?

However I meant that the technology was a closely guarded secret and so moronic intelligence operations like what Laz so often conducted wouldn't have a prayer at getting them.

Fair enough, so what you meant to write was "Laz, bugger off."

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-06-02 01:44pm

You can't have all bonuses, for every bonus you take; you need to include a disadvantage. Furthermore I'd like to ask how your nation maintains any sort of economy or a sizeable industrial base with only a few million people. A few million can fit very comfortably in a single city. Speaking of which, you need to post your current holdings.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-02 05:06pm

Hotfoot wrote:All well and good, but mimicry like what Beowulf is claiming would allow him access to any and all techs by that logic, without having to spend the time to infiltrate and properly adapt. If I started a nation which had every advantage of every other nation, and the ability to choose when I had it, it would be a bit silly, wouldn't you think?

I'm not defending Beowulf's nation's design at all. He'll have to do that if Pablo decides he has a problem with it (and if people do getting in touch with him is a good first step instead of rehashing it endlessly here).

As for his 'advantages' you're so worried about, we're not allowed to call abitrary advantages for our nations. So I fully expcet that Pablo will see that if Beowulf wishes to go ahead with the odd setup he has he'll be expected to play it as it would be not how he wants it to be(a case in point being Alyruim's economy). Remember he's said he's faking it, not that he actually has the full working technology himself.

I'm just saying I don't at all like the notion that a nation can 'call' a totally proprietary technology and say that another one could never develop it or have something similar. Especially when the technology in question isn't all that special to begin with.

Hotfoot wrote:Fair enough, so what you meant to write was "Laz, bugger off."

Not just Laz but any one that wants to pull a cheesy bit of espionage. Any way, it was meant more as an in game warning, than saying people couldn't have something similar at start up or develop something like it in game.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-06-02 05:24pm

I have no real problem with Beowulf's declared abilities.

Of course, being able to go without air doesn't mean you'll survive when the Overseer decides to vent atmosphere from a chamber.

Being able to reform from the dead shouldn't be able to work if you've been Doomed.

And I fully expect the Direct Energy conversion devices to be abused to try and get superior to be the premeire firepower king.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-06-02 06:21pm

SirNitram wrote:I have no real problem with Beowulf's declared abilities.

It's possible for a skeleton to be magically animated--and they don't even have any muscles.

Of course, being able to go without air doesn't mean you'll survive when the Overseer decides to vent atmosphere from a chamber.

Explosive decompression, and the freezing of the body would disable it nicely. Even if the consciousness survives, it ought to be entirely disabled in a vacuum.

Being able to reform from the dead shouldn't be able to work if you've been Doomed.

Or if you've been blown into itty bitty pieces. If you're body has been dispersed badly enough you shouldn't be coming back.

And I fully expect the Direct Energy conversion devices to be abused to try and get superior to be the premeire firepower king.

I'm somewhat inclined not to allow it. It doesn't actually have any more practical utility than a M/AM reactor, except that it has the potential to be developed into a superior weapon.

What do the players at large think of it? Yea or nay?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-06-02 06:24pm

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-06-02 06:24pm

I'm somewhat inclined not to allow it. It doesn't actually have any more practical utility than a M/AM reactor, except that it has the potential to be developed into a superior weapon.

I don't care what he calls it, but if he goes around pulling The Bombing of Desjardins left and right, I'd say no.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-06-02 06:27pm

Given Beowulf's previous actions with DE and supermissiles, I vote nay. The rest is fine except for the 'even if I get turned to vapour I'm coming back'. They can reanimate over and over, but once you're vapourized or otherwise nicely dispersed, you stay down.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-06-02 06:30pm

I'm inclined to vote nay

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-02 06:32pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
And I fully expect the Direct Energy conversion devices to be abused to try and get superior to be the premeire firepower king.
I'm somewhat inclined not to allow it. It doesn't actually have any more practical utility than a M/AM reactor, except that it has the potential to be developed into a superior weapon.

What do the players at large think of it? Yea or nay?

Yay, provided that it's kept with in the previously applied technological limits.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-02 06:35pm

Darksider, do you want to pick up the diplomatic conference you and I had started?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-06-02 07:32pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
SirNitram wrote:I have no real problem with Beowulf's declared abilities.
It's possible for a skeleton to be magically animated--and they don't even have any muscles.

So he's people are nothing more than animated piles of flesh? I still say most scanners and primitive medical scanners would pick that up easily.

Of course, being able to go without air doesn't mean you'll survive when the Overseer decides to vent atmosphere from a chamber.
Explosive decompression, and the freezing of the body would disable it nicely. Even if the consciousness survives, it ought to be entirely disabled in a vacuum.

Don't forget damaged. In fact, I would say that if captured one could be "kept alive" in the damaged body using stasis chambers or the like without any trouble. Hell, just bolting them to a chair and preventing the body from dying would be enough, no?

Being able to reform from the dead shouldn't be able to work if you've been Doomed.
Or if you've been blown into itty bitty pieces. If you're body has been dispersed badly enough you shouldn't be coming back.

So the bodies reform? That's another dead giveaway, how in hell could one of these guys infiltrate a nation in anything but small inconsequential numbers?

And I fully expect the Direct Energy conversion devices to be abused to try and get superior to be the premeire firepower king.
I'm somewhat inclined not to allow it. It doesn't actually have any more practical utility than a M/AM reactor, except that it has the potential to be developed into a superior weapon.

What do the players at large think of it? Yea or nay?

Nay

And if I may suggest something to you, Beowulf, you'd have a lot more luck by playing the role of a major galactic corporation or the like. Especially for infiltration, your people wouldn't have to pretend to be humans or any other race. You can recruit people from basically any race you want. It would really suit your strategy much better. It could even be controlled by the evil space zombies if you want.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2004-06-02 08:06pm

InnocentBystander wrote:And if I may suggest something to you, Beowulf, you'd have a lot more luck by playing the role of a major galactic corporation or the like. Especially for infiltration, your people wouldn't have to pretend to be humans or any other race. You can recruit people from basically any race you want. It would really suit your strategy much better. It could even be controlled by the evil space zombies if you want.

Hey, it works... I've been doing that for a while now, and so has Pablo. (Hephaestus Industrial Design & Engineering, anyone?)

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-06-02 09:36pm

Crayz9000 are you playing in this STGOD, I don't see your OOB.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-06-02 09:43pm

Pablo is going to be incommunicado through tomorrow and most of Friday, possibly Saturday as well. Very busy with real life.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2004-06-02 09:50pm

InnocentBystander wrote:Crayz9000 are you playing in this STGOD, I don't see your OOB.

Nah, just standing on the sidelines. I'm in spectator mode