Just what has Bush done, anyway?

[Plekhanov]

They'll be getting Syria next. As i keep saying, this war was for oil.

If we were after Iraqi oil we could have gotten it without going to war.

It was a war to maintain US hegemony over a major oil producing region not just to get access to Iraq’s reserves.

[beyond hope]

They'll be getting Syria next. As i keep saying, this war was for oil.

Then why have gas prices spiked over the past few months? Where's that damn oil? If we're going to go kicking up a big shitstorm in Iraq, the least we could do is have a tangible silver lining to it.

My understanding is that the bottleneck is refinery capacity, not crude. If we carted all of Iraq's 2 million barrels/day back home* it still wouldn't drop the price at the pump for months, because there's no way of getting the excess refined. There've been fires at two major US refineries, Giant Industries in Gallup and BP in Texas City. Plus, this is the time of year when they're having to make the summer blends for different areas (and Cali in particular has price problems because of the ethanol in their gas.)

Understand, I'm not trying to argue in favor of the "war for oil" mantra. There, are, however, reasons why an increased oil supply will not lead to lower prices at the pump.

*IIRC there's a section of the Geneva Conventions that would make doing so illegal

[kojikun]

Let's not forget that big oil doesn't want shitloads of cheap oil because that's less of a profit. And Bush wants what big oil wants. Cheap gas = not on Bush's mind. That would be too kind and common-man of him and doesn't get him the support of corporate types who want high gas prices so they can line their pockets.

[Son of the Suns]

They'll be getting Syria next. As i keep saying, this war was for oil.

Then why have gas prices spiked over the past few months? Where's that damn oil? If we're going to go kicking up a big shitstorm in Iraq, the least we could do is have a tangible silver lining to it.

My understanding is that the bottleneck is refinery capacity, not crude. If we carted all of Iraq's 2 million barrels/day back home* it still wouldn't drop the price at the pump for months, because there's no way of getting the excess refined. There've been fires at two major US refineries, Giant Industries in Gallup and BP in Texas City. Plus, this is the time of year when they're having to make the summer blends for different areas (and Cali in particular has price problems because of the ethanol in their gas.)

Understand, I'm not trying to argue in favor of the "war for oil" mantra. There, are, however, reasons why an increased oil supply will not lead to lower prices at the pump.

*IIRC there's a section of the Geneva Conventions that would make doing so illegal

meh, we haven't built a refinery in 20 years.

[Son of the Suns]

They'll be getting Syria next. As i keep saying, this war was for oil.

If we were after Iraqi oil we could have gotten it without going to war.

It was a war to maintain US hegemony over a major oil producing region not just to get access to Iraq’s reserves.

US hegemony?! What the hell are you talking about? The US has never controlled any part of the middle east as far as oil production goes. If it was about oil we should have invaded Saudi Arabia. The whole "It's all about the oil" argument has been going around since before we invaded Iraq, and it has never been substantiated.

[beyond hope]

Let's not forget that big oil doesn't want shitloads of cheap oil because that's less of a profit. And Bush wants what big oil wants. Cheap gas = not on Bush's mind. That would be too kind and common-man of him and doesn't get him the support of corporate types who want high gas prices so they can line their pockets.

I've actually heard the opposite argued, at least in regard to OPEC, that traditionally they try to keep the cost/barrel around $28. As it climbs higher, people start to give serious thought to a hybrid or diesel. Big Oil could give the proverbial rat's ass what you drive: they'll still be running the filling station you pump your ethanol, methanol, propane, liquid hydrogen, or biodiesel from and turning a profit.

meh, we haven't built a refinery in 20 years.

If I've heard right, that's because the existing refineries are grandfathered into the pollution codes, while new ones would not be (and thus would be far more expensive to build and operate.) I'm sure that NIMBY plays into it to.

[RedImperator]

It's a little misleading to say "we haven't built any new refinieries", because existing refineries have expanded their operations. In general, it's much easier to make an old refinery bigger than it is to build a new one. Refineries are enormous operations and would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build from scratch, and hundreds of millions more to fight through the municipal, state, and Federal bureaucracies to get the damn thing built (not surprising, when you consider the amount of vile shit getting pumped through the pipes there--if most people knew and had a choice between living next to a refinery and a nuclear power plant, they'd probably take the nuclear plant).

[beyond hope]

I believe there's a lawsuit in Delaware on that very issue (release of 20 tons of toxic shit from a refinery.)

[Plekhanov]

US hegemony?! What the hell are you talking about? The US has never controlled any part of the middle east as far as oil production goes.

So do tell me just who is the dominant power in the region? The US has numerous military bases dotted around the place and has been propping up numerous unpleasant regimes (Egypt, Saudi…) for years. The local superpower (Israel) is a client your state and on the whole does your bidding.

If it was about oil we should have invaded Saudi Arabia.

Why would you? Their oil is already available to you the current Saudi regime knows full well that it would soon fall without US support.

The whole "It's all about the oil" argument has been going around since before we invaded Iraq, and it has never been substantiated.

Yes the war was all about human rights and WMD wasn’t it it’s just a coincidence that Iraq happens to have lots of oil and is in the middle of a major oil producing region

[Ma Deuce]

So do tell me just who is the dominant power in the region? The US has numerous military bases dotted around the place and has been propping up numerous unpleasant regimes (Egypt, Saudi…) for years.

Did you ever stop to consider what kind of regimes would ruling in Egypt or Saudi Arabia if the current ones fell?

[Bob McDob]

Let's not forget that big oil doesn't want shitloads of cheap oil because that's less of a profit. And Bush wants what big oil wants. Cheap gas = not on Bush's mind. That would be too kind and common-man of him and doesn't get him the support of corporate types who want high gas prices so they can line their pockets.

Well, if gas prices continue to rise the way they have, big oil might soon stand to lose a lot more money then they would otherwise.

[Plekhanov]

So do tell me just who is the dominant power in the region? The US has numerous military bases dotted around the place and has been propping up numerous unpleasant regimes (Egypt, Saudi…) for years.

Did you ever stop to consider what kind of regimes would ruling in Egypt or Saudi Arabia if the current ones fell?

What has that got to do with whether US exercises hegemony in the region or not?

[Sharp-kun]

If it was about oil we should have invaded Saudi Arabia.

Why would you? Their oil is already available to you the current Saudi regime knows full well that it would soon fall without US support.

I thought we got oil from Iraq as well via things like the "Oil for Food" program?

[18-Till-I-Die]

Someone is going to burn me down for this, but i think it needs to be said:

The war in Iraq isnt now nor has it ever been about oil. It's about fear.

Bush's approval rating skyrocketed after 911, and durring the War on Terror too, to somewhere near 80% IIRC. He figured, as morbidly as it sounds, that starting another 'war' would make him more popular. And like a school bully pulling a prank on another classmate for a laugh, he attacked Iraq with the intention of boosting his own approval ratings. But it backfired and now we're in so deep we cant get out. Moreso, this whole 'democratization' thing is utter bull. They have no intention of 'brining democracy' to the Middle East, only extending the war.

Back when those plans downed the WTC, i was willing to beleive that Bush was looking out for our best intrests. But as this new war dawned, i realized that it as all his way of grotesquely profiting from a horrible event. It's not about oil, it's about making the general populous so affraid of terrorists they cant see the terrorist right in front of their eyes.

We who are about to be flamed salute you, and i await my broiling.