80 Sathanases vs. the UFP

[Bob McDob]

Setting: Edge of Federation Space

Stardate: Idontknowstardates (immedietly after Dominion War)

Description: I don't know the specifics, but a fleet of big-ass ships just warped in near the edge of known space and releasing hell-get all on them. Reports say they're not like anything ever seen before. Vast, black vessels, with mean-looking spikes spitting red. One witness just kept repeating "from hell, from hell, Lucifer has returned to claim us".

This is looking bad. I want every ship we can spare to make full speed ASAP. There's already a battlegroup of twenty Galaxy-Xs, twelve Akiras, three Sovereigns and ten Steamrunners moving to intercept. The Klingons have pledged four Vor'chas each with a Bird-of-Prey escort. Somehow I don't think it'll be enough. This looks worse, far worse than anything we've ever seen before.

One more thing. We've just received this transmission. Transwarp signatures. Borg cubes, in the area, coming our way. At least three of them. No way to tell if they'll become involved.

Dob McBob: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . ahem.

[starfury]

I remenber that freespace ships have shitty ranges and speed, if those wre better they would slaugher the feds and borg

[Shinova]

Setting: Edge of Federation Space

Stardate: Idontknowstardates (immedietly after Dominion War)

Description: I don't know the specifics, but a fleet of big-ass ships just warped in near the edge of known space and releasing hell-get all on them. Reports say they're not like anything ever seen before. Vast, black vessels, with mean-looking spikes spitting red. One witness just kept repeating "from hell, from hell, Lucifer has returned to claim us".

This is looking bad. I want every ship we can spare to make full speed ASAP. There's already a battlegroup of twenty Galaxy-Xs, twelve Akiras, three Sovereigns and ten Steamrunners moving to intercept. The Klingons have pledged four Vor'chas each with a Bird-of-Prey escort. Somehow I don't think it'll be enough. This looks worse, far worse than anything we've ever seen before.

One more thing. We've just received this transmission. Transwarp signatures. Borg cubes, in the area, coming our way. At least three of them. No way to tell if they'll become involved.

Dob McBob: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . ahem.

Is that from a fanfic or something? Cause it sounds fanficy.

[Bob McDob]

I remenber that freespace ships have shitty ranges and speed, if those wre better they would slaugher the feds and borg

Has anyone tried deriving FS speeds from the cutscenes?

Is that from a fanfic or something? Cause it sounds fanficy.

Nope, just spur-of-the-moment.

[weemadando]

80, ahem 80 Sathanas'...

It only took 8 to burn their way through a dedicated military alliance...

Even with faster sublight speeds etc the UFP are still going to be totally owned.

[Shinova]

80, ahem 80 Sathanas'...

It only took 8 to burn their way through a dedicated military alliance...

Even with faster sublight speeds etc the UFP are still going to be totally owned.

Actually while we are sure of UFP ranges, the current most accepted ranges and speeds for Freespace are still in the meters/sec and kilometers ranges. For example, the fastest speed in the game is 160m/sec and the longest range for a weapon is 40km. That's from in-game data, which is what most people use.

UFP has longer ranges and speeds than this, so eventually the UFP will win by whittling down the 80 Sathanas'.

[Edi]

So the UFP has supposedly a huge range and speed advantage, but tell me, are the ranges and speeds in the games derived from Trek not comparable?

I remember some older game my brother played that was set in the TOS era and when you had to fight other ships in it, it was typically at Wing Commander/Freespace ranges and speeds. We know for a fact that this would be inaccurate. The reverse would probably also be true. And if this premise holds (I'm not saying that it does, mind), the UFP (and the Klingons, Romulans, Dominion, Borg and the others) are going to be owned so badly that it isn't even funny.

If a TV series were to be made of FS, we'd probably see very different (and far greater) speeds and ranges, they would have to be because what works for TV series and computer games is different.

Edi

[Bob McDob]

I remember some older game my brother played that was set in the TOS era and when you had to fight other ships in it, it was typically at Wing Commander/Freespace ranges and speeds.

Starfleet Academy?

[Edi]

How old is that game? Because we're talking about a very old game here, it was some seven or eight years ago... I never played it, but it involved some exploration mission and stuff, using the Enterprise with Kirk, Spock and the rest as your crew and at the end there was some renegade who'd stolen another Enterprise and you had to kill him.

Edi

[Alyeska]

So the UFP has supposedly a huge range and speed advantage, but tell me, are the ranges and speeds in the games derived from Trek not comparable?

I remember some older game my brother played that was set in the TOS era and when you had to fight other ships in it, it was typically at Wing Commander/Freespace ranges and speeds. We know for a fact that this would be inaccurate. The reverse would probably also be true. And if this premise holds (I'm not saying that it does, mind), the UFP (and the Klingons, Romulans, Dominion, Borg and the others) are going to be owned so badly that it isn't even funny.

If a TV series were to be made of FS, we'd probably see very different (and far greater) speeds and ranges, they would have to be because what works for TV series and computer games is different.

Edi

ST Games are not canon. You don't derive ST figures from the games, you derive them from the series and movies. But if you REALLY wanted to derive them from the games, we can use Starfleet Command

[Alyeska]

80, ahem 80 Sathanas'...

It only took 8 to burn their way through a dedicated military alliance...

Even with faster sublight speeds etc the UFP are still going to be totally owned.

Actually while we are sure of UFP ranges, the current most accepted ranges and speeds for Freespace are still in the meters/sec and kilometers ranges. For example, the fastest speed in the game is 160m/sec and the longest range for a weapon is 40km. That's from in-game data, which is what most people use.

UFP has longer ranges and speeds than this, so eventually the UFP will win by whittling down the 80 Sathanas'.

Actually the beam weapon ranges are far shorter then that. They can't target anything much beyond 10km in range.

[Slartibartfast]

I was just wondering, in the alternate universe where FreeSpace takes place, Newton was killed by the apple right?

[Shinova]

I was just wondering, in the alternate universe where FreeSpace takes place, Newton was killed by the apple right?

In a sense, yes. Freespace does not follow Newtonian physics. More like flight-sim physics.

[Datana]

How old is that game? Because we're talking about a very old game here, it was some seven or eight years ago... I never played it, but it involved some exploration mission and stuff, using the Enterprise with Kirk, Spock and the rest as your crew and at the end there was some renegade who'd stolen another Enterprise and you had to kill him.

That was Star Trek: 25th Anniversary, one of the few Star Trek games that didn't completely suck. You had a choice of 320x240x256 colors, or 640x480x16 colors in gameplay, and it was split into space combat and exploration modes. The Special Edition of the game was fully voiced and was one of the earlier CD-ROM based games.

[SWPIGWANG]

ST use tractor beam to show those ships into a local sun and that it.

[Vertigo1]

UFP goes down hard. They've got range and sublight speed advantage over the shivans, but they're a bit lacking when it comes to necessary firepower. The ships are just too massive to be taken out in time.

[Shinova]

Since its only 80 sathanas', the UFP will eventually destroy them. And Shivans don't have regenerative hulls.

Now if it were the entire Shivan race, then the UFP will probably be screwed so badly that the borg would look like a piece of cake.



The last statement was based on the Shivans' tendency to whip out some super bada** toys at the worst possible moments for their opponents.

[Bob McDob]

Since its only 80 sathanas', the UFP will eventually destroy them. And Shivans don't have regenerative hulls.

Now if it were the entire Shivan race, then the UFP will probably be screwed so badly that the borg would look like a piece of cake.



The last statement was based on the Shivans' tendency to whip out some super bada** toys at the worst possible moments for their opponents.

Yeah . . . as in "anything we want to happen can happen" No offense, but I could just say Admiral Janeway technobabbles her way out and say it cancels out. There's a REASON I fixed things as they were . . .

[Shinova]

Since its only 80 sathanas', the UFP will eventually destroy them. And Shivans don't have regenerative hulls.

Now if it were the entire Shivan race, then the UFP will probably be screwed so badly that the borg would look like a piece of cake.



The last statement was based on the Shivans' tendency to whip out some super bada** toys at the worst possible moments for their opponents.

Yeah . . . as in "anything we want to happen can happen" No offense, but I could just say Admiral Janeway technobabbles her way out and say it cancels out. There's a REASON I fixed things as they were . . .

UFP doesn't need technobabble to solve this problem. Just outrange the Sathanas' and fire away, back off when they get too close. Rinse and repeat.

The Sathanas' jumping into subspace and popping up elsewhere; that would be a problem.

[Edi]

Alyeska, I wasn't commenting on what is Trek canon and what is not, I was making an observation you didn't even address. If we go by the what you see is what you get approach and canon only, Trek wins this one, no contest (other than maybe a few slagged worlds), but if we use the several windows into Trek approach and one of those windows is directly comparable to Freespace, then the implications about the capabilities of FS take on a whole new dimension.

Datana, thanks, that was the one.

Edi

[Vertigo1]

UFP doesn't need technobabble to solve this problem. Just outrange the Sathanas' and fire away, back off when they get too close. Rinse and repeat.

The Sathanas' jumping into subspace and popping up elsewhere; that would be a problem.

Problem is, the ships are just too massive to take on without a huge fleet. Even then, the fed's favorite tactic is to get up close and personal with the enemy. Take a look at what the feds did to the cube in First Contact. They could've easily sat back and lobbed torpedoes and fired phasers the entire time, but they didn't. The fleets would be just short of obliterated when they got in range of the juggernauts. BFReds have a nasty kick to them.

[Shinova]

UFP doesn't need technobabble to solve this problem. Just outrange the Sathanas' and fire away, back off when they get too close. Rinse and repeat.

The Sathanas' jumping into subspace and popping up elsewhere; that would be a problem.

Problem is, the ships are just too massive to take on without a huge fleet. Even then, the fed's favorite tactic is to get up close and personal with the enemy. Take a look at what the feds did to the cube in First Contact. They could've easily sat back and lobbed torpedoes and fired phasers the entire time, but they didn't. The fleets would be just short of obliterated when they got in range of the juggernauts. BFReds have a nasty kick to them.

Course, that's assuming that the feds are afflicted by their usual inattention to detail :

Smart Ensign : Uh, Captain...

Captain : Yes, Ensign?

SE : Can't we just sit outside their range and lob 'em with torpedoes?

C : ........

SE : Sir???

C : Are you INSANE???

SE : Sir???

C : We absolutely cannot sit outside their range and lob them with torps!!

SE : Why not sir?

C : Cause it ain't cool! Why in hell would we sit outside range when we can go in for close-combat, loose thousands of lives in the process, do insignificant damage, and maybe even get all our asses kicked!!? Don't you have a sense of intelligence, boy!!?

SE : Sir, I'm not following you...

C : Can't you SEE!!?? It's all about fanservice, ensign! FANSERVICE!! We've got to appeal to the ratings!!

SE : I see.... <add sweatdrop>

C : Good! CHARGE!!!

<Shivan commanders laugh their heads off as UFP fleet runs into a grid of BFReds. Game over>


Detail being the Fed ships' obvious range advantage.

[Vertigo1]

Thats just golden!

[Mad]

Has anyone tried deriving FS speeds from the cutscenes?

I haven't, but I do know that the cutscene speeds show better acceleration and speeds than the less reliable gameplay. I just don't have any numbers to say how much better, so I can't say much more than that. Perhaps someone more qualified than I can take a look at the cutscenes and get some numbers. FS1 has a briefing small animation scene of a transport speeding away from Earth after dropping off a cargo box, which could be good for getting some measurements, for those that know how.

I noticed someone trying to compare Trek games to Trek onscreen and using that as a basis for what FS might be capable of. I disagree with that line of reasoning for the same reason I disagree with trying to use Wars games to do the same thing: they're different universes, and thus cannot be compared that way; all info about one universe should be derived from that universe only (and our real one to fill in any gaps). (Not to mention that Trek games are inadmissable as evidence.)

FS cutscenes/briefing animations are plenty to establish some estimate on FS's real combat capability. We just need someone capable of translating the visual evidence into numbers.