Welcome to America

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-06-05 04:42pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:So it doesnt matter to you if the policy itself is wrong? I suppose that people who "pushed the envelope" during the civil rights movement piss you off as well and deserved being hit with firehoses that can take off skin.

Afterall, they intentionaly broke the law.

A law that is unjust is still unjust, no matter who breaks it, and no matter what theri motivation is.
Why is this law unjust? Why is requiring jouranlists to have VISAs unjust?
TO have a special VISA? Yes it is unjust. We have always extended proessional courtesy to reporters from friendly nations. But we are treating a brittish reporter as a security risk. As if the brittish have a tendancy to be terrorists.

They gave a brittish journalist a body cavity search. They didnt even give her a fucking bed or food. Jesus H. Christ. It is shit liek this, which is the very reasn the world at large is not happy with the US right now.

Things are different now. 9/11 caused a lot of changes, visitors need to respect those changes. However, if the treatment she received is accurate than I agree that needs to be changed. However, the law itself is not unjust. All she had to do was fill out a piece of paper correctly.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-05 04:45pm

Sharp-kun wrote:The rule is that she had to have a visa. Its not that unreasonable. Yes, too much time was spent on it, and the effort wasn't worth it, but it's her own fault.
When you travel, you make sure you know the requirements of your destination. She either didn't, in which case she's just a bit dim, or she didn't care, in which case she deserves it.

It is extremely unreasonable British citizens can travel to the US for up to 90 days for business or pleasure without a visa UNLESS they are journalists, why should they be singled out?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-06-05 04:46pm

Plekhanov wrote:Yes that’s it she deliberately got herself arrested just for the story Ever think that you might be getting a little paranoid, not all foreigners are out to get at the US you know.

What the fuck are you talking about? I was talking about her, not all foreigners! Holy shit batman. Learn to read.

I suppose the Australian journalist travelling to interview Olivia Newton-John and the French journalists going to E3 got themselves deliberately arrested as well didn’t they.

Considering that they weren't must mean that they knew the requirements for entering the US. So maybe it was bold of me to say she did it on purpose, I guess she is just a fucking idiot.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-05 04:47pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Things are different now. 9/11 caused a lot of changes, visitors need to respect those changes. However, if the treatment she received is accurate than I agree that needs to be changed. However, the law itself is not unjust. All she had to do was fill out a piece of paper correctly.

Why does 9.11 mean that British journalists need special visas? No other profession seems to need one.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-06-05 04:47pm

Plekhanov wrote:
Sharp-kun wrote:The rule is that she had to have a visa. Its not that unreasonable. Yes, too much time was spent on it, and the effort wasn't worth it, but it's her own fault.
When you travel, you make sure you know the requirements of your destination. She either didn't, in which case she's just a bit dim, or she didn't care, in which case she deserves it.
It is extremely unreasonable British citizens can travel to the US for up to 90 days for business or pleasure without a visa UNLESS they are journalists, why should they be singled out?

That's a good question. Perhaps we should find out...

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-06-05 04:48pm

Plekhanov wrote: It is extremely unreasonable British citizens can travel to the US for up to 90 days for business or pleasure without a visa UNLESS they are journalists, why should they be singled out?

I thought we all had to get visa's now as we don't have biometric passports? Something about it on the BBC a while back.

Even still, it still amounts to her filling in a bit of paper. Why did she not do this? Did she not check what she had to do, or did she just not bother and decide to chance it?

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-06-05 04:49pm

Checked. After October 24th all British citizens without biolmetirc passports will have to get a visa.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-06-05 04:52pm

Sharp-kun wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: It is extremely unreasonable British citizens can travel to the US for up to 90 days for business or pleasure without a visa UNLESS they are journalists, why should they be singled out?
I thought we all had to get visa's now as we don't have biometric passports? Something about it on the BBC a while back.

Even still, it still amounts to her filling in a bit of paper. Why did she not do this? Did she not check what she had to do, or did she just not bother and decide to chance it?

She has spent too much of her life expecting America to be easy to get into. A smile and a wave. Oh, 90 days of what ever.

That was great back in the day, but her mistake was that after security measures had been upped (something she'd have to be daft not to know of) and she still expected it to be like the good old days.

The law itself is dumb but she's just as dumb because I gotta believe if she had gone to another country with high security that has been in place for a while, she'd have had the proper forms filled out. But since its AMERICA and everyone should be able to get in with little thought or difficulty, she got lazy and sloppy and busted.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-05 04:56pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Plekhanov wrote:Yes that’s it she deliberately got herself arrested just for the story Ever think that you might be getting a little paranoid, not all foreigners are out to get at the US you know.
What the fuck are you talking about? I was talking about her, not all foreigners! Holy shit batman. Learn to read.

I’m talking about your paranoid delusions that a journalist with appointments for several interviews would deliberately get herslf arrested just to make America look bad.

I suppose the Australian journalist travelling to interview Olivia Newton-John and the French journalists going to E3 got themselves deliberately arrested as well didn’t they.
Considering that they weren't must mean that they knew the requirements for entering the US. So maybe it was bold of me to say she did it on purpose, I guess she is just a fucking idiot.

It’s you who needs to learn to read, they were arrested and deported that was kind of why I referred to them.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-06-05 05:03pm

Plekhanov wrote:
I’m talking about your paranoid delusions that a journalist with appointments for several interviews would deliberately get herslf arrested just to make America look bad.

I didn't say that either. I mean that maybe she she didn't fill out the forms correctly just to see what would happen, not knowing what the consequences would be.

It’s you who needs to learn to read, they were arrested and deported that was kind of why I referred to them.

Shit, sorry. You also need to take time and read what I'm saying. I don't like being accused of things that I never said.

SecondStorm · Post by **SecondStorm** » 2004-06-05 08:22pm

My urge to visit America is rapidly declining because of stories like this.
Hows Canada? Ive heard good things about Vancouver.

America apparently wants to close its borders or at least tighten them greatly.
Why not? Its their country and their rules.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2004-06-05 08:33pm

Don't let a few isolated incidents put you off - I've run US immigration twice with a J-1 student visa at Seattle and recieved nothing but friendliness or at the worst, professionalism. I had all the finger prints and bag searches, the seperate enclosures, the interviewing, managing to lose my DC2019 and having to haul 2 suitcases back up to immigration to see if I could find it, I even got to joke around a bit with them on second entry, it was all very painless.

Ignoring the dislike of the Patriot stuff, in the end, your average EU member shouldnt really have any problem getting into the states as long as you know your paperwork is in order.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-06-05 09:58pm

As an American citizen its easier to get into Canada then it is to get back into the US and this is while having both my passport and drivers liscense.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-06-05 10:35pm

Alyeska wrote:As an American citizen its easier to get into Canada then it is to get back into the US and this is while having both my passport and drivers liscense.

That's odd, when I came back from England literally wearing a "Tower of London" hat on my head, they let me go by after claiming I had nothing to declare.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-06-06 05:35am

The US is wrong about a lot of things. However, a statement above pissed me off. Just because some journalist got spanked because she couldn't follow the rules now means that Bush is the next hitler and the US is the next germany? Fuck you.

I don't really think this is the next germany or this is the next hitler, but it is a growing Fascist problem which is given too much power through which future generations will suffer if something is done.

There is a definite need for security and changes, but enough is enough, and overkill is not the answer. You don't fight terror by taking up neo-fascism disguised as "terror" protection.

The cyle will just keep happening over again.

1. Terror attack
2. Defensive measures exploit terror attack and increase government power
3. Power legitimized through fear of more terror, propaganda, and patriotism.
4. Little actually prevents terror, but government gains obscene power, most often unconstitutional--but what the hay...its in the name of protection. Future generations are put at risk when some crack pot takes over and abuses the system.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-06-06 06:31am

This shouldn't be a hijack, but with respect to the entering of America.......

1. Why is it that passengers are held without consultion with the respective embassies? This is a standard procedure, indeed, that's the entire reason why they exist(for us common folks anyway). When we get into trouble overseas, we should had been allowed access to our embassy as soon as possible. However, various Malaysian muslims, and even Singaporean Chinese has been detained over 24 hours before access to the Singapore Embassy was allowed. Although, since the US apparently wants confirmation from our home office here in Singapore, that might explain some of the time differential.

2. Are these officers any at all experienced in checking passports? Seriously, we got several news bulletins over passport issues, and apparently, stuff like "Passport cover colour was degraded"= forged passports. Furthermore, there has also been reports of US immigration officials damaging passports, in an attempt to prove that they were forged.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-06-06 07:46am

Old news. And is not an insular case either.
from slate

Not the same thing but compareable red tape and paranoia has started to damage the exchange of research between europe and the USA.
Students not giving permission to study for a semester at an US university, scientist banned from visiting meetings, this kind of thing.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2004-06-06 12:11pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Had thedisclaimer not been in fine print, and had she been informed of the change in legistlation I would say "grill her" but it was in fine print, and for some reason she was not informed.

FINE PRINT!!! Read your shit that your signing. At least she wasn't pummeled or mistreated. Although she acts like that sense America doesn't spend a lot of money making lavish holding cells that she was being tortured. She fucked up, they went through thier procedures and she got deported. Sucks, but hey, we were lax at one time and we got fucked. Get over it.

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2004-06-06 07:37pm

People keep saying she should have read the fine print... but why would she have bothered. Lets say she makes oh I don't know 5 Trips on average a year to the USA for Journalistic reasons, and has been doing so for the past oh 5 Years.

So she has filled out oh 25 of these Forms, maybe when she first made the trip she read the fine print but over the years it's a part of her routine, tick the boxes write the same stuff, fold and put in purse...

Then all of a sudden the rules change, but it appears it takes a while for the Government to actually bother twlling the Journalistic community, put it into the perspective of she's seen these forms before so she wouldn't have bothered to read the Fine print.

Now as to well would she have not bothered to read the fine print if she had been visiting Iraq or a dictatorship likely she would have, she'd have checked everything... Thats not a criticism of her through, thats a criticism of the way the US is heading when she is expected to treat a trip to America like a Trip to a dictatorship known for it's human rights abuses!!

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2004-06-06 08:03pm

The point is though, she should have made it a point to be aware of these changes - she would have had to have had her head in the sand for the past few years to not notice that American immigration policy has changed - all it would have taken would have been a quick review of the various websites to be aware of the changes.

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2004-06-06 08:13pm

How dare you treat an American officer with disrespect?" he shouted back, indignantly. "Believe me, we have treated you with much more respect than other people. You should go to places like Iran, you'd see a big difference." The irony is that it is only "countries like Iran" (for example, Cuba, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe) that have a visa requirement for journalists. It is unheard of in open societies, and, in spite of now being enforced in the US, is still so obscure that most journalists are not familiar with it. Thirteen foreign journalists were detained and deported from the US last year, 12 of them from LAX.

That is since the matter came to the fore in March of last year 12 Journalists have been deported from the US for violations of this act, not looking too safe the amount of information given to Journalits telling them of the change.

Nor is it looking to good for the US that it is the ONLY Democracy to impose such rules on Journalits as to require them to have a second Visa when no one else needs to. So here you have a woman visting the US unaware that the rules have changed somewhat recently... because the nation is now emulating those Dictatorships they want to educate as to the values of Democracy and the free press... whoops unles your a foreign journalist from an allied nation when you might well be a security risk!

Post by **Edi** » 2004-06-07 03:54am

I just wonder how much of a stink it would raise in the US if the EU quietly introduced the same kind of visa requirementss for American journalists and treated them the same way if they failed to take note of them. There'd be no end to the screaming and hollering...

Edi

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-06-07 07:00am

Edi wrote:I just wonder how much of a stink it would raise in the US if the EU quietly introduced the same kind of visa requirementss for American journalists and treated them the same way if they failed to take note of them. There'd be no end to the screaming and hollering...

Edi

Thats because the rest of the world, and the people of the US, would know that the bastion of freedom and democracy{

} treats international reporters the same as Cuba, North Korea, Syria and Iran.
Its not nice to be publically lumped with dictatorships.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2004-06-07 07:51am

Why the fuck is everyone going on about how "if she'd read the fine print she'd be fine?" The visa waiver form is signed on the aeroplane by which time you're screwed if you don't have it.

Oh, and the US Embassy in London is not particularly helpful about the visas. the small word 'media' in the left hand column is the only indication that journalists need a special visa. It's not mentioned in the text at all.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-06-07 08:44am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Tribun wrote:America? The land of freedom?
Hahaha! Good joke!

HEIL FÜHRER BUSH!
OMG it's the guardian! I'd wait for more sources to confirm this before spewing vomit like that.

Oh puh-leese an Australian TV personality was put through the same fucking thing, Molly Meldrum for those playing the home game. It was on all of the fucking news networks and everything, to quote Molly on his interrogators; 'When they told me to shut up -- I shut up!'

And if anyone knows Molly, you know how hard that is to do.