Israel withdrawing from West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-06-10 03:15pm

I've heard things to that effect. Can anyone confirm?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-06-10 03:16pm

Sharon is kicking everyones ass to withdraw from Gaza Strip, firing minsiters, etc

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2004-06-10 06:50pm

It seems like he actually might do it. However, he's probably not going to survive elections.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-06-10 07:07pm

And then anyone who's elected promptly gets their asses kicked by the USA when they stop the withdrawals. The ball's starting to roll, and there are some pretty powerful kids on the block that don't want it to stop...

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-10 07:11pm

We all know about Gaza, where are these other rumours coming from?

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-06-11 01:22am

Israel, on day two of the withdrawal: "Haha just kidding.

" and promptly drives the tanks back in.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-06-11 01:24am

kojikun wrote:Israel, on day two of the withdrawal: "Haha just kidding. " and promptly drives the tanks back in.

Yeah...have you seen how many ministers Sharon's fired or intimidated into backing this? He even might call for new elections...

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-06-11 01:38am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:Yeah...have you seen how many ministers Sharon's fired or intimidated into backing this? He even might call for new elections...

I'll believe it when I see it happen. Good on Sharon if he pulls out, but I'm not going to trust Israel to do something like this until I see evidence.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-11 01:47am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
kojikun wrote:Israel, on day two of the withdrawal: "Haha just kidding. " and promptly drives the tanks back in.
Yeah...have you seen how many ministers Sharon's fired or intimidated into backing this? He even might call for new elections...

But Sharon's plan just covers Gaza and he's going to annex half of the West Bank in recompense. The thread title talks about withdrawing from Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, I’ll need some extremely hard evidence before I believe that.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-06-11 01:50am

Plekhanov wrote: But Sharon's plan just covers Gaza and he's going to annex half of the West Bank in recompense. The thread title talks about withdrawing from Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, I’ll need some extremely hard evidence before I believe that.

Well, if he annexes the West Bank as the Golan was annexed previously, then the Palestinians become Israeli citizens, same as the Druze and Arabs were in the Heights. They then get the same rights Israeli Arabs do...which are all of them bar military service.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-06-11 01:52am

BBC has this bit of a story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3793653.stm

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-11 01:57am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:Well, if he annexes the West Bank as the Golan was annexed previously, then the Palestinians become Israeli citizens, same as the Druze and Arabs were in the Heights. They then get the same rights Israeli Arabs do...which are all of them bar military service.

The experience of the Palestinians on the wrong side of the "separation wall" would suggest that this will not be the case

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-06-11 02:00am

Plekhanov wrote: The experience of the Palestinians on the wrong side of the "separation wall" would suggest that this will not be the case

Technically, though, they're not citizens. I'm not condoning the behavior, mind you, just playing the Devil's Advocate and pointing out the differences. Talk to any average Israeli Arab (One that's been living there all their life as a citizen), and you're not gonna find any complaints about torture and spying and having your house bombed in...they'd be too busy trying to pay the damn exorbitant taxes.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-11 02:11am

Whilst I’m very pro Palestinian I’m the first to admit that Arab citizens of Israel have more rights than their brethren in over middle east states, it’s just that with the current Israeli demographic worries about the Palestinian birth-rate I think the Israeli government will do everything it possibly can to get the land without the people. When it comes to annexing the chosen bits of the West Bank I really don’t see the admitting hundreds of thousands of new Palestinian citizens.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-06-11 02:26am

Xeno: The problem is that those Palestinians that arent technically citizens still live within an annexed part of "Palestine", which does indeed make them technically citizens. Unless I'm wrong about the annexation.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-06-11 06:27am

Actully, Sharon seems serious about this, soldiers are coming home from reserves, some units are being pulled back, i'm not sure about East Jerusalem, but the West Bank and Gaza for sure.

The only problem is, will he survive to pull it off? hes under attack from a weird coalition of the left, the religious, and the zionists (dont ask me why

)

Also, the scandel surrounding him and his family over the greek islands they have a share in, might kick him out.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-06-11 06:58am

I forsee him pulling out, suicide atacks continue, the plan is declared a failure and they go right back in.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-11 07:06am

Ace Pace wrote:Actully, Sharon seems serious about this, soldiers are coming home from reserves, some units are being pulled back, i'm not sure about East Jerusalem, but the West Bank and Gaza for sure.

I know about Gaza but what’s this about the West Bank? Are you actually saying that Israel is going to completely pull out of the occupied territories (except for Jerusalem) and drag the 250,000 settlers out kicking and screaming? Have you got a link?

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-06-11 07:12am

Plekhanov wrote: I know about Gaza but what’s this about the West Bank? Are you actually saying that Israel is going to completely pull out of the occupied territories (except for Jerusalem) and drag the 250,000 settlers out kicking and screaming? Have you got a link?

We're talking complete disengagment in 2 stages, 1 gaza, then West bank.

And YES, the goverment is going to drag the 250K settlers out, the goverment is trying to keep THAT quiet, by offering them huge sums of money (where will they get the money from?!).

I dont have a link in english, but something in hebrew, primarily concerned with the settlers, but also other stuff

http://nfc.msn.co.il/archive/001-D-4793 ... g=14-11-45

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-11 07:27am

This is incredible and if it happens will be a fantastic development, would anybody happen to know of a Hebrew to English translator website?

Post by **Coyote** » 2004-06-11 07:29am

Any Israeli pullouts of Palestinian territories would start with a "Gaza First" test case-- it is small, the border is easily controlled, and the Palestinians there have their backs against the sea.

If a "Free Gaza" goes well, then there have always been plans that a precedent could then be in place to pull out of the West Bank. The security wall is probably going to be th ebasis for re-establishing a border.

THe Gaza pullout looks like it will happen, the rest is probably just wishful thinking, a la domino-theory.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-06-11 01:24pm

Free Gaza, though, is likely to be a disaster. Since Israel still controls virtually all of their utilities, the Palestinian authorities have virtually no method of taking care of the humanitarian situation in the area.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-06-11 01:52pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Free Gaza, though, is likely to be a disaster. Since Israel still controls virtually all of their utilities, the Palestinian authorities have virtually no method of taking care of the humanitarian situation in the area.

What about the Egyptians? You know, the people who are next to
the border with Gaza and are running arms tunnels from Egyptian
police stations to houses in Gaza?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-06-11 02:38pm

MKSheppard wrote:

What about the Egyptians? You know, the people who are next to
the border with Gaza and are running arms tunnels from Egyptian
police stations to houses in Gaza?

What about them? Do you think those crappy little tunnels that are potentially useful for smuggling small shipments of weapons in are going to be effective at providing the entire Gaza strip with water and electricity? Do you seriously think that Egypt is in this thing for the long haul?

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2004-06-11 03:29pm

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: But Sharon's plan just covers Gaza and he's going to annex half of the West Bank in recompense. The thread title talks about withdrawing from Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, I’ll need some extremely hard evidence before I believe that.
Well, if he annexes the West Bank as the Golan was annexed previously, then the Palestinians become Israeli citizens, same as the Druze and Arabs were in the Heights. They then get the same rights Israeli Arabs do...which are all of them bar military service.

That's a lie. Israeli arabs are not barred from military service. They are just not forced into compulsory conscription. Israeli Arabs can volunteer and join up with the IDF if they so choose.