MACOs vs Stormies

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2004-06-10 01:25am

Ten (if ten is not enugh, twenty) MACOs vs Ten Stormies (Regular stormies, not Dark Troopers or Black holes) in a lightly wooded area aprox 4 KM to 4 KM. Both killing and capturing are exeptable

MACOs each get

Assault rifle with sniper scope
2 Stun Grenades
Xindi Zapper
Uniform
Four days woth of rations
10 cans of Alexander Keith's India Pale ale
Steak Knife (only if they lose with twenty guys)

Stormies get
E-11s
Armor
One thermal Detonator

FIGHT!!!

Jordie · Post by **Jordie** » 2004-06-10 01:25am

Been done, Stormies win.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-10 02:14am

Stormtroopers win easily. Their blasters are much powerful then MACO rifles and even a near miss will kill MACOs through shaprnel. Stormtroopers have sensrs in their helmets letting them see much further and give them much greater accuracy then the MACOs. They also wear armoured battlesuits that protects them from sharpnell or chemical / biological agents. So the Stormtroopers win easily.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-11 07:04am

evilcat4000 wrote:Stormtroopers win easily. Their blasters are much powerful then MACO rifles and even a near miss will kill MACOs through shaprnel. Stormtroopers have sensrs in their helmets letting them see much further and give them much greater accuracy then the MACOs. They also wear armoured battlesuits that protects them from sharpnell or chemical / biological agents. So the Stormtroopers win easily.

Shrapnel from trees? And what evidence is there that Stormtrooper armor stops anything?

Darth Phoenix · Post by **Darth Phoenix** » 2004-06-11 07:28am

Metrion Cascade wrote:Shrapnel from trees? And what evidence is there that Stormtrooper armor stops anything?

It has extreme resistance to kinetic impacts i.e stoping a spear thrown by a cyborg with enough strength to hurl in backwards against the wall and nearly putting him unconsious with on a scratch on the armor
Also can proctect against energy attacks making sure that only a direct hit would put one down.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-06-12 03:27am

Metrion Cascade wrote:
Shrapnel from trees? And what evidence is there that Stormtrooper armor stops anything?

Read the site comes to mind.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-06-12 05:29am

Did we ever decide what would happen (assuming they got off a normally lethal level shot) if a phaser blast hit a stormtrooper outfit?

I mean, if phasers are good at destroying organics, does that mean "plasteel" would be vulnerable to it? Or just the body glove?

The MACOs don't stand much of a chance really. Their stun grenades might not even do anything to the armor (again, an open question as the above). Their weapons I'm not sure if they are supposed to be "plasma" or "phase" but let's just say for the sake of argument that they're some kind of phaser technology (maybe more efficient, so the ammo lasts longer and higher rate of fire).

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-06-12 08:05pm

It should be noted we know that phase pistols can reach 10 MJ in power for its shots. Thats more then sufficent to take out Stormie armor from what I've heard. I suspect their rifles have equal power to the pistol.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2004-06-12 11:34pm

Alyeska wrote:It should be noted we know that phase pistols can reach 10 MJ in power for its shots. Thats more then sufficent to take out Stormie armor from what I've heard. I suspect their rifles have equal power to the pistol.

Actually in that one ep they jacked it to 11MJ.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-06-12 11:42pm

Wait a second, didn't one of the E-Ds full size phaser arrays put out 1020 MW? So basically 93 200 year old hand weapons can put out as much energy as a modern (relative to TNG) capital ship weapon emplacement. That's pretty fucked up.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-13 12:47am

Phasers are chain reaction weapons. They do far more damage than their power output. If they only did a gigajoule worth of damage per second they would have been worthless compared to nuclear yield photon torpedoes.

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2004-06-13 04:10am

My guess since Stormtrooper armour like Clone armour is synthetic is that it would most likely be invulnerable to a phaser, after all basically organic material destruction or heating rocks is all we have seen from phasers (and we know packing crates are invulnerable to phasers). As for continuity isn't it nice to know that even the writers for trek have no idea what is going on.

Lastly Stormtroopers have sealed armour and thermal detonators there is no hope for the MACO's.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-06-13 10:37am

harbringer wrote:My guess since Stormtrooper armour like Clone armour is synthetic is that it would most likely be invulnerable to a phaser, after all basically organic material destruction or heating rocks is all we have seen from phasers (and we know packing crates are invulnerable to phasers). As for continuity isn't it nice to know that even the writers for trek have no idea what is going on.

Lastly Stormtroopers have sealed armour and thermal detonators there is no hope for the MACO's.

No limits fallacy. Armor will sustain damage after a point and phasers have enough power.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-13 11:50am

Alyeska wrote:
harbringer wrote:My guess since Stormtrooper armour like Clone armour is synthetic is that it would most likely be invulnerable to a phaser, after all basically organic material destruction or heating rocks is all we have seen from phasers (and we know packing crates are invulnerable to phasers). As for continuity isn't it nice to know that even the writers for trek have no idea what is going on.

Lastly Stormtroopers have sealed armour and thermal detonators there is no hope for the MACO's.
No limits fallacy. Armor will sustain damage after a point and phasers have enough power.

Maybe, but the fact that packing crates and the like are effective cover isn't particularly encouraging to that proposition.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-06-13 02:06pm

Stormbringer wrote:Maybe, but the fact that packing crates and the like are effective cover isn't particularly encouraging to that proposition.

Incorrect. Packing crates only provide sufficent cover when phasers are set to low power. We know that Phase Pistols can be set to 11 MJ and we know from a DS9 episode that a metal packing crate was penetrated through completely by a phaser shot while not vaping it.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-06-13 03:31pm

So, we're off on the 95% of people in Trek have suffered a full frontal lobotomy track. Why is it no one ever does pump up the power to shoot people behind these uber-crates of doom?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-06-13 05:26pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:So, we're off on the 95% of people in Trek have suffered a full frontal lobotomy track. Why is it no one ever does pump up the power to shoot people behind these uber-crates of doom?

Happens in scifi all the time. We know how powerful the ships are capable of, yet how often do we see them use it?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-06-13 06:06pm

How often outside this particular little thing do we see individuals play the whack-a-loon game with cover that apparently all sides could vaporize without any trouble at all if they could only be arsed to press a button?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-06-13 07:09pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:How often outside this particular little thing do we see individuals play the whack-a-loon game with cover that apparently all sides could vaporize without any trouble at all if they could only be arsed to press a button?

About the only place this happens is hollywood. Sadly that includes much of scifi. Writers are typicaly a tad smarter and have people flushed out of cover behind "Uber Packing Crates of Doom".

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-13 07:52pm

Alyeska wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:How often outside this particular little thing do we see individuals play the whack-a-loon game with cover that apparently all sides could vaporize without any trouble at all if they could only be arsed to press a button?
About the only place this happens is hollywood. Sadly that includes much of scifi. Writers are typicaly a tad smarter and have people flushed out of cover behind "Uber Packing Crates of Doom".

Except if they don't do it, why the hell are we counting on them something smart and resetting phasers against stormtroopers?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-06-13 07:53pm

Alyeska wrote:About the only place this happens is hollywood. Sadly that includes much of scifi. Writers are typicaly a tad smarter and have people flushed out of cover behind "Uber Packing Crates of Doom".

Just a little point, it's writers that write all this stuff (suprising no?) so saying writers are smarter is sort of silly. Basically you're saying that it's just the writing staff for Trek that are a bunch of total retards then while real writers are far better than those employed for Trek?

Oh, and with regards to the ships thing you said, one key element is whether they use that power when it would be useful...like the guns capable of more than "mild rash setting" would be when trying to shoot people behind crates.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-06-13 07:57pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Alyeska wrote:About the only place this happens is hollywood. Sadly that includes much of scifi. Writers are typicaly a tad smarter and have people flushed out of cover behind "Uber Packing Crates of Doom".
Just a little point, it's writers that write all this stuff (suprising no?) so saying writers are smarter is sort of silly. Basically you're saying that it's just the writing staff for Trek that are a bunch of total retards then while real writers are far better than those employed for Trek?

Oh, and with regards to the ships thing you said, one key element is whether they use that power when it would be useful...like the guns capable of more than "mild rash setting" would be when trying to shoot people behind crates.

When I said writers, I was meaning novels and the sort.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-06-13 07:58pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:How often outside this particular little thing do we see individuals play the whack-a-loon game with cover that apparently all sides could vaporize without any trouble at all if they could only be arsed to press a button?
About the only place this happens is hollywood. Sadly that includes much of scifi. Writers are typicaly a tad smarter and have people flushed out of cover behind "Uber Packing Crates of Doom".
Except if they don't do it, why the hell are we counting on them something smart and resetting phasers against stormtroopers?

Typicaly one assumes the opposition is competent enough in a VS debate. I usualy see claims of incredible tactics on both sides, and these are tactics not normaly used.

Besides, I've yet to see the MACOs having this sort of incompetence.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-06-13 07:59pm

And why does everyone always scream about the bloody packing crates?

Phasers CAN penetrate through them easily enough, but phasers at the same time have multiple settings. They can stun or kill without ANY visable thermal damage to the target, meaning shots often will be stoped by shiping containers. Second, we have no clue WHAT these crates are made of in terms of materials, if they are resistent to weapons fire or not. Third, we often don't know if said packing crates are full or empty, which may well also stop the weapons fire.

Phasers HAVE shown an ability to blast through heavy materials, IF they want them to. Hell just a few minuites ago, a DS9 episode was on where a Changeling was loose on the Defiant. Sisko tried a snapshot at it as it jumped into a vent with his rifle, it was set high enough to vape a beam wide line through the bulkhead as he swung his rifle from floor to cealing. The fact that they DON'T use this kind of firepower on Starships and other critical facilities when they have NON physicaly destroying settings of stun and kill....well, to quote Marco ramius; "Be Careful, what you shoot at eh? Most things in here...don't react too well to bullets"

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-13 08:07pm

No civilization out there is going to make a standard shipping crate out of armored plating, for obvious logical reasons. So if you want to claim they're that freaking tough, then it's up to you to prove not just argue from ignorance.

Now, the simple fact that assuming a phaser can, eventually, cut through them, they still don't do that. So really we're back to the question of whether they're bright enough to jack up the firepower. And the answer to that seems to be no.