Too close to the system, Vader? What are you goi... <chok

[Connor MacLeod]

Not exactly, from a more draconian point of view. You're forgetting that Needa accepted full responcibility for the Falcon disappearing when he went to personally receive punishment from Vader.

Okay, so he accepted the responsibility for it disappearing. So what? They didn't escape by any traditional methods that any Star Destroyer captain would know to deal with. Executing an effective Star Destroyer captain who suddenly found a pursued ship completely off his scope was a waste of resources if nothing else.

Sith aren't known for their anger management techniques. Plus, Vader generally doesn't always care much for tactical effectiveness (Witness ordering bridge deflectors down just to conduct a holonet/hyperwave conference, even in the midst of a dangerous asteroid field)

[Connor MacLeod]

Vader's plan was to arrive in the outskirts of the Hoth system and make a very gradual approach to the planet, masking the fleet as a group of asteroids (a strategy Rieekan mentions would have a high degree of effectiveness). This outskirt arrival would mask the presence of the fleet, since the signature emissions of hyperspace would be far beyond the range of Rebel sensors.

Not quite.

- You forgot passive FTL sensors. According to galaxy Guide 3, the alternative was for the Death Squadron to emergge from hyperspace behind the asteroid field, using it to screen their emergence from detection.

- A gradual approach to the planet would not work. THey'd many hundreds of thousands if not millions of kilometers (at a minimum) off (judging by the approximate distance they appeared to emerge from hyperspace around Hoth - the "close strtiking distancec" mentioned in the Radio Drama). A full-acceleration approach would not work because at that power output they would be giving off a SHITLOAD of energy (ion engines, remember?) which would be detectable. And they couldn't delay long - the Rebels already expected their arrival due to the probe droid (they were already making preparations for evacuation, remember?) If they waited too long, the Rebels would get away. And on top of that, we know from the EGW&T that rebels have passive optical sensors out to five light minutes. That's yet another reason to avoid getting close.

The TESB novelization in conjunction with the Radio drama suggest that the intention was to bombard from some distance away (Vader mentions a "clean bombardment being impossible." As you noted, the Probe Droid noticed the power generators as well as the planetary ion cannon and other systems. They could have easily taken them out at long range from precision strikes (before the rebels could detect the bombardment - if they could - and raise the shields.) For that matter, long-range bombardment ability is already established in "Rebel Stand" as it is.

They might use the meteor activity to start "approaching" the planet or cover their emergence from the asteroid field, but the only possible way they could have effectively responded from a distancec is with weapons fire.

However, Ozzel decided to ignore Vader's plan and instead chose a surprise attack strategy. He arrived in-system, instantly setting off all of the Rebel's sensors (as indicated by the controller's detection), alerting the Rebels to the presence of the Imperial fleet and allowing them to reinforce their deflector shield, which was either not active or not at full power at the time (the difference presumably coming from "Reroute all power" and resulting in "deflect any bombardment").

Actually,
Mike suggests the Rebels may have detected the Imperials BEFORE they emerged from hyperspace:

The Rebel base on Hoth and the Imperial fleet outside the system were able to detect and scan each other before Darth Vader was informed that the fleet had dropped out of hyperspace. This should prove that our sensor technology can easily identify and scan targets many light-hours away, which is more than enough for tactical purposes since that is already out of weapons range.

This wouldn't change the bit about emerging from behind the asteroid field any, since we know realspace objects can interact with/interfere with hyperspatial objects and communications (the Asteroid field would still help to mask their approach)

Incidentally, the TESB radio drama called what Ozzel did a "close striking distance", which again would suggest that much longer-ranged assault is possible/practical (with weapons, at least)

This prevented Vader from employing a direct surgical bombardment of the power generator itself, and thus made the siezure of the Rebel base more difficult than his plan would have necessitated otherwise.

Weapons fire travels MUCH faster than starships do, and is much harder to detect. They had the probe droid's data (as well as their own sensors) - precision bombardment should not have been difficult even at that range.

[Connor MacLeod]

Vader's plan was to arrive in the outskirts of the Hoth system and make a very gradual approach to the planet, masking the fleet as a group of asteroids (a strategy Rieekan mentions would have a high degree of effectiveness). This outskirt arrival would mask the presence of the fleet, since the signature emissions of hyperspace would be far beyond the range of Rebel sensors.

Not quite.

- You forgot passive FTL sensors. According to galaxy Guide 3, the alternative was for the Death Squadron to emergge from hyperspace behind the asteroid field, using it to screen their emergence from detection.

- A gradual approach to the planet would not work. THey'd many hundreds of thousands if not millions of kilometers (at a minimum) off (judging by the approximate distance they appeared to emerge from hyperspace around Hoth - the "close strtiking distancec" mentioned in the Radio Drama). A full-acceleration approach would not work because at that power output they would be giving off a SHITLOAD of energy (ion engines, remember?) which would be detectable. And they couldn't delay long - the Rebels already expected their arrival due to the probe droid (they were already making preparations for evacuation, remember?) If they waited too long, the Rebels would get away. And on top of that, we know from the EGW&T that rebels have passive optical sensors out to five light minutes. That's yet another reason to avoid getting close.

The TESB novelization in conjunction with the Radio drama suggest that the intention was to bombard from some distance away (Vader mentions a "clean bombardment being impossible." As you noted, the Probe Droid noticed the power generators as well as the planetary ion cannon and other systems. They could have easily taken them out at long range from precision strikes (before the rebels could detect the bombardment - if they could - and raise the shields.) For that matter, long-range bombardment ability is already established in "Rebel Stand" as it is.

They might use the meteor activity to start "approaching" the planet or cover their emergence from the asteroid field, but the only possible way they could have effectively responded from a distancec is with weapons fire.

However, Ozzel decided to ignore Vader's plan and instead chose a surprise attack strategy. He arrived in-system, instantly setting off all of the Rebel's sensors (as indicated by the controller's detection), alerting the Rebels to the presence of the Imperial fleet and allowing them to reinforce their deflector shield, which was either not active or not at full power at the time (the difference presumably coming from "Reroute all power" and resulting in "deflect any bombardment").

Actually,
Mike suggests the Rebels may have detected the Imperials BEFORE they emerged from hyperspace:

The Rebel base on Hoth and the Imperial fleet outside the system were able to detect and scan each other before Darth Vader was informed that the fleet had dropped out of hyperspace. This should prove that our sensor technology can easily identify and scan targets many light-hours away, which is more than enough for tactical purposes since that is already out of weapons range.

This wouldn't change the bit about emerging from behind the asteroid field any, since we know realspace objects can interact with/interfere with hyperspatial objects and communications (the Asteroid field would still help to mask their approach)

Incidentally, the TESB radio drama called what Ozzel did a "close striking distance", which again would suggest that much longer-ranged assault is possible/practical (with weapons, at least)

This prevented Vader from employing a direct surgical bombardment of the power generator itself, and thus made the siezure of the Rebel base more difficult than his plan would have necessitated otherwise.

Weapons fire travels MUCH faster than starships do, and is much harder to detect. They had the probe droid's data (as well as their own sensors) - precision bombardment should not have been difficult even at that range.

[Connor MacLeod]

I dunno, I don't think Needa was justified at all. He was diligently pursuing them, they charged his ship -- and then they disappeared. They didn't go into hyperspace, they were too small to have a cloaking device, so what the hell happened to them? He had no information, but he didn't "lose" them in any traditional sense.

I assume he was hiding in a sensor blind spot between the sensor domes. the only way they could have been found was to actually go out there and have a look visually.

Which may or may not have worked.. the ion engines act as huge blind spots (apparently, its even possible they can visually distort things) And at any distance, it would be difficult to spot the Falcon unless you were placed just right (and it didnt look like any of the Imperials were)

[McC]

The ion engines of heavy capital ships are themselves capable of damaging smaller vessels, though. I only really have game mechanics (SWRPG and XWA/XvT) to base this on, but it makes a fair amount of sense given the amount of particulate matter that ISDs would have to be flinging out the back at high velocities. As such, they don't really make for very good blindspots...your shields are going to be wearing away while sitting in them.

As to your other points, *shrug* I can't fault them. The movie doesn't lend itself to that conclusion, but the other sources evidently do. However, in light of what you said an alternative possibility occured to me: jump in under cover of the asteroid field, and then microjump from the field to Hoth orbit and commence bombardment before the Rebels can react. It'd happen fast enough that even FTL sensors would prove ineffective.

[hvb]

... or jump in under cover of the asteroid field (or other mass shadow), then initiate intermediate range "clean" bombardment of known defenses,
and then microjump in right behind that initial volley to take care of any mop-up targets and initiate troop landings from close range.
again the Rebels would not be alerted until the ships unmasked (if at that, this requires no engine signature after unmasking) for the initial volley, and after that it would be over in the travel time of the bombardment volley.

[Natorgator]

Okay, so he accepted the responsibility for it disappearing. So what? They didn't escape by any traditional methods that any Star Destroyer captain would know to deal with. Executing an effective Star Destroyer captain who suddenly found a pursued ship completely off his scope was a waste of resources if nothing else.

The thing that I've never understood is why would the captain of a Star Destroyer not be aware of a sensor blind spot? Surely that kind of design flaw would have to be well known.

[Mange]

Exactly the same discussion is going on over at the Official Forums, and the thoughts over there matches those here.