The Prequels -- Not so bad

[Durandal]

The shoddy dialogue was acceptable for me in AotC. I can accept that these two are not Romeo and Juliet, and are in fact, basically clueless about relationships in any way, shape or form. What got me was just the total lack of any perceptible chemistry between them at all. They were both so stone-faced and dead with each other the whole time. Even when they were laughing and smiling, it seemed forced.

I watched the IMAX version of AotC, which had some of the Anakin/Padme scenes cut out, and it was a much better film all around. Skip the boring crap and get straight to blowing shit up.

Contrast that with Han and Leia in TESB. That was a fun romance. Witty dialogue with two excellent actors.

"Why, afraid I was gonna leave without giving you a goodbye kiss?"
"I'd just as soon kiss a Wookie."
"I can arrange that! You could use a good kiss!"

Granted, the situation is a lot different from Anakin and Padme, but still, compare the Leia/Han first-kiss scene with the Anakin/Padme first-kiss scene. Solo's a smooth operator, saying, "There aren't enough scoundrels in your life," and you could feel the attraction between the two. The scene ends with a frustrated Solo sarcastically thanking C-3PO for interrupting him while he was at work.

Anakin on the other hand, is a bumbling idiot who makes comments about Padme's skin being soft, like some deranged stalker, and rather than building up to a kiss, it's simply telegraphed blatantly. The scene ends with Anakin saying, "I'm sorry" like it's a question.

[President Sharky]

Mcc, I agree, the prequels aren't so bad, and Jar-Jar can be funny at times. Hell, from my experience, most kids under 13 who saw TPM loved Jar-Jar.

And yes, the deathsticks exchange is now classic.

[Joe]

Another piece of dialogue that nearly sent me up the wall was when Jar Jar Binks was making his speech asking the Senate to grant emergency powers to Palpatine and addressed the Senators as "dellow felegates." I just found that incredibly disrespectiful - we're finding out how the Clone Wars started and the Empire was born, something we've been wondering about for 25 years, and at the most crucial moment so far in the prequels GL can't even take himself seriously, he has to have fucking Jar Jar blabbling in that retarded accent of his. The OT could be fun and light-hearted, but when things got serious, they were serious. I mean, of all the ways the Empire could have been born, did you in your most horrible nightmares think it would have involved Jar Jar Binks addressing the Galactic Senate as "dellow felegates"?

[Joe]

I personally think its McCallum, he's the lamest brown-noser ever, if George's inner circle didn't nod and agree at whatever he says the PT might have turned out better. George's idea of cool is just to outdated now, his writing is horrible and direction bland, Kasdan and guys like that were needed to direct again. They brought in a dialogue screenwriter and he brutalized the romance, like I said the only time its believable is in the cut scenes.

I completely agree. See that excellent documentary that comes with the TPM DVD, it's quite amusing to watch them happily gobble up every turd that GL shoves into their mouth without question. My favorite part was the scene where they seem to indicate that they actually, seriously believe Jake Lloyd is a good actor.

[McC]

Another piece of dialogue that nearly sent me up the wall was when Jar Jar Binks was making his speech asking the Senate to grant emergency powers to Palpatine...Galactic Senate as "dellow felegates"?

Actually, I thought this was a masterstroke. The most inept, foolish character in the entire SW canon is essentially the reason the Empire was born. It's such a terrible fate, such a terrible role to play -- it's far better than killing Jar Jar, as many fans wanted to do, could ever have been. Jar Jar thinks he's doing the right thing, manipulated by circumstance, and essentially allows the entire Republican system, which has stood for a thousand generations, to fall.

Incidentally, the "dellow felegates" remark was supposed to have some derisive laughter attached to it coming from the other senate booths. I think leaving that in might've enhanced the scene a bit, but I personally think it's one of the most appropriate events in the prequel lore.

[Joe]

I agree, I agree, Jar Jar being the one responsible is a great idea, but once again, the problem is that GL couldn't control himself. I mean, would it have been so difficult to make Jar Jar into a serious character for one second? Did he have to say "dellow felegates" for the scene to work?

I'm sorry, but I'm under the impression that GL wanted us to take that scene seriously, and with Jar Jar acting like an idiot as usual, I couldn't do that.

[Sarevok]

Do we know what "Death Sticks" are ?

[Crazedwraith]

Do we know what "Death Sticks" are ?

They're kinda like Cigars I think, i dont know qhere i got that from, Star Wars: Bounty Hunters I guess.

[Stormbringer]

I mean, of all the ways the Empire could have been born, did you in your most horrible nightmares think it would have involved Jar Jar Binks addressing the Galactic Senate as "dellow felegates"?

Actually, I did imagine Jar Jar was going to be the death of Star Wars. I didn't think George Lucas was going to agree with me.

[nightmare]

I was a bit disappointed with TPM, so apparently I got a touch of the unbelieveable hype. The second time around I watched it, I liked it better since I had no expectations, unconscious ones or not.

Jar-Jar is nice for the kids.. I like the "killing Jar-Jar games" better. AOTC is good, I don't pay much attention to the romance anyway. Battle droids in TPM was cheap junk they would be better off not building, but in AOTC it worked.

Sometimes the talk in AOTC seem forced in the wrong places, but for the most part I 'm fine. Bringing the C3 and R3 back as the main comical event was a very necessary key as well.

[Stravo]

MOst everyone here knows my absolute LOATHING for TPM IMHO one of the worst pieces of sci fi drek to grace the screen in a long time and if the Star Wars name were not attached to the movie most people here would be calling it for the turd that it is.

It had no style, no magic, no hook, no gripping dialogue, the battle scenes were meh and the only bright point was the Maul vs. Jedi end duel and even that has lost some of its magic. I cannot tell you how often I have seen the duel on Bespin and ROTJ and it never loses the dramatoc tension and power.

Anakin Skywalker....sigh....apart from the obvious fact that the kid could not act his way out of a paper bag who the FUCK wanted to see Darth Vader as a whiney eight year old whose dialogue was interpersed with the eplileptic seizure inducing "Yippee!" and the groaningly nauseating "Now that's pod racing." or the derisively snorting "Are you an angel?"

Jar Jar....christ this was a waste of digital space. I don't give two shits if the character was intended for kids...guess what? Threepio and R2 had the same role in OT and they were no where near as godawful as that disaster so there's no excuse. Where is it written that a character geared for children must be horrible to watch and listen to?

GL was obviously allowed to do what he wanted and I'm glad the fans slapped him down for it and he obvioously was listening when he gave us AOTC a far superior film but still inferior to the OT in many respects. GL reminds me of those best selling authors who no longer have an editor riding their asses and suddenly they start producing horrible tomes that keep growing in fucking size. (See Stephen King and even worse offender Anne Rice whose work is now unreadable.)

I blame him solely for the debacle that was TPM since it was touted as his vision blah blah blah. TPM was a horrible horrible first draft of something but a Star Wars movie it was NOT.

Episode III will have to be BRILLIANT if you expect me to even put this trilogy on the same scale, even in teh same ballpark as OT. Sorry. I just don't buy it that they're getting better with age, they most certainly are not and TPM just looks worse and worse as the succeeding prequels get better.

[Master of Ossus]

I hate TPM, but I really enjoyed AotC. It was a movie possessing of interesting and unexpected depth. I don't really have a problem with the dialogue in the love scenes (I really don't expect people who have never had a relationship before to be Cyranos), and it was visually stunning.

[Joe]

I have to admit that a lot of AoTC's visuals left a bad taste in my mouth. GL seems to have missed the LoTR trilogy, which shows that it's OK to use lower-tech FX once and awhile, everything doesn't have to be fucking CG.

[Equinox2003]

I always liked the prequel films. AoTC better than TPM, for many reasons,
but I do not think parts 1&2 are equal with the OT.
Many people will always like the OT better, just as I will. For me one
of the biggest reasons the OT is better is the story.
I think the story of the Alliance v the Empire with Luke struggling to
revive the lost Jedi art, is simply a better story than the prequels.
I sometimes think that more people would like the prequels if TPM
had never happened and AoTC was Episode 1.
Rather than showing young Annie, they could have had Padawan
Annie just tell Amidala his past in 4 mins of screen time, thus sparing
us all from TPM. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that.

[JME2]

You know, I've been re-watching all five movies recently and I have to say, I like the prequels more as I rewatch them. Elements that I once thought of as awful begin to make sense and I pick up new things that make them (the prequels) work. For instance, the scene where Anakin confesses to Padme about killing all the sand people -- I had never noticed before that after he tells her, she says, "To be angry is to be human" and he says, "I'm a Jedi -- I'm above that" or something to that effect and then she caresses him -- I had somehow never seen that scene before. Before, I had always asked myself, "Why the hell would she comfort him like that after such a confession?" But her reaction to it made the entire scene work for me.

Little Anakin is still pretty obnoxious, but during the pod race, I noticed that when he and Sebulba are locked together, Anakin is the one who tears them apart and sends Sebulba crashing -- nine years old, and an act of vengeance against an enemy. I had never looked at it that way before, but that kinda made sense in an interesting, foreboding way.

Jar Jar? Not so bad when you translate what he's saying. It's the way he says it that's obnoxious, but when you think of what he's saying without convoluted Gungan-speak, he's actually a smart-ass punk. "Oh, maxi-big da Force," he remarks to Qui-Gon. "Oh, the Force, yeah, that'll fix everything" might be a translation. It's actually pretty witty.

So, yeah, this is sort of my "I like the prequels" confessional. I don't think they're bad, and I don't think they've ruined Star Wars. And I'm kind of curious -- upon rewatching, has anyone else had a similar experience? Do the prequels grow on you the more you watch them?

...

In the immortal words of one of my friends, "What the fuck are you smoking!

[McC]

*shrug* I could ask the same of any of the people who don't like the prequels. Everyone has their reasons for liking or disliking them. They're different than the OT, for sure, but they're not bad and all the "Lucas has ruined Star Wars!" drivel is entirely fallacious. Maybe Lucas 'ruined' your vision of Star Wars. I don't think he ruined his.

[frigidmagi]

I really expected something darker. I mean the Republic is falling damn it, it's ripping itself apart at the seams. Sure there's some moments that reflect this, but not as much as I would have like. Personal opinion really, so I don't expect to much agreement, nor will I howl over it much. But I was I don't know really wanting to see the Fall of Rome in all it's spendor, but alot of it's just implied and hinted at.

One thing I will scream bloody murder about is Lucas abadoning cannon. Ep I should have been the begining of the clone wars or right in the fucking middle of it. Vader should have been in his late teens early twenties, a fucking military pilot, not an 8 year old slave boy! Sure make it so he was a slave before that's cool, but Eight! EIGHT?!?

Damn it all, if he was going to turn Obi Wan into the biggest fibber in the universe could he have planted a couple of hints that a JEDI's not trustworthy. Just a few? For us slow guys you know?

[JME2]

I really expected something darker. I mean the Republic is falling damn it, it's ripping itself apart at the seams. Sure there's some moments that reflect this, but not as much as I would have like. Personal opinion really, so I don't expect to much agreement, nor will I howl over it much. But I was I don't know really wanting to see the Fall of Rome in all it's spendor, but alot of it's just implied and hinted at.

One thing I will scream bloody murder about is Lucas abadoning cannon. Ep I should have been the begining of the clone wars or right in the fucking middle of it. Vader should have been in his late teens early twenties, a fucking military pilot, not an 8 year old slave boy! Sure make it so he was a slave before that's cool, but Eight! EIGHT?!?

Damn it all, if he was going to turn Obi Wan into the biggest fibber in the universe could he have planted a couple of hints that a JEDI's not trustworthy. Just a few? For us slow guys you know?

Well, we can only hope Ep. 3 wraps thinks up decently - and be better than its previous 2 predecessors.

[frigidmagi]

The elements were there in the first 2 movies, the bloated Senate, deathsticks, private armies. If Lucas had just put some work into it instead of wanking off...

But I'm starting a rant that we don't need.

[Lord Poe]

I love the prequels. Sure, there's a few problems, but I still think they're excellent SW films.

I'm not going to bother listing the problems here, though. But I have a couple of observations. For some reason, TPM reminds me of THX-1138 in a couple scenes, by the angles a few scenes were shot in. When Obi-Wan is bouncing on his toes, waiting for the forcescreen to come down to attack Maul, that felt like an earlier Lucas scene in THX-1138 for some reason.

I consider AOTC a better film than ROTJ. I think what would have helped the Anakin/Padme pairing up would have been a role-reversal. Anakin taking his Jedi studies extremely serious, while Padme is smitten with him. Anakin would be trying to do his job while Padme would be trying to get him to see her as a woman. And a jealous boyfriend or suitor back home on Naboo would have spiced things up too. Imagine a scene where Anakin force chokes the boyfriend and warns him off!

I also think Anakin should have been in constant, secret contact with his mother.

[JME2]

For me personally, the prequels are like Voyager - great potential that ultimately failed bcause of corny dialouge and plot holes galore.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Poe's on to something; Anakin's trying to do the right thing, but natural desires inevitably lead to him being seduced, just like Luke before him, the love for his protectors, the hate for Vader, the nostalgia for the father he didn't know.

Similarly, Anakin's love for his mother, his dedication to making something of himself, and an inate loneliness. Plus I think secretly keeping in contact with his mom would've made a thematically better and more pervasive betrayal of the Jedi Code than what ended up being. It would've also further illuminated the social dysfunction permeating the Order.

[hvb]

I'm with Lord Poe & Illuminatus Primus & especially Stravo in this; that scenario would have played better (better yet if the actors where allowed to actually act in those scenes, not like the abysmal forced acting we see in some of the scenes this scenario would replace)...
Unfortunately it is (though expected), that it is not us, but GL, who sets canon.

Stravo hit that nail on the head: GL lets his creative impulses/humor get the better of him, and nobody has the authority+courage to rein him back from excess and stick to the main aim of the story without diluting it with sudden flights of fancies:
sotto voce: the dark story of the fall of the republic and the inescapable corruption of it, the Jedi order and Anakin, remember GL?

[Ace Pace]

I liked TPM, I liked AOTC, and enjoyed them alot, though re-watching TPM some stuff IS wrong, alot is still right, and I think theres still ALOT of the magic from the OT, its just that this is a differant vision.

Though George Lucas IS wanking off a bit, with all the yes men, he needs another editor.

[McC]

Well, in terms of staff, I don't think it's the editor that's the problem, but as mentioned previously, Rick McCallum. He just rubs me the wrong way whenever I see him in behind the scenes stuff, and I suspect the majority are right when they say he's the biggest yes-man at Lucasfilm right now.