Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-06-16 10:36pm

Sure, it's sort of an old book (relatively speaking) but who's read it, and how did you like it?

Incidentally, has anyone here seen www.lyingliar.com? It's hilarious, especially the section in which the author handpicks 10 Ann Coulter endnotes out of something like 36 pages in order to "prove" that the entire book is factually valid.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-06-16 11:04pm

I read bits of it from a friend on my floor. I particularly liked "Operation: Ignore" and "Ann Coulter: Nutcase."

It particularly appealed to me because I am an anti-Republican nut, but it still raised some very valid points about how WRONG some mainstream conservative arguments are. Although I suppose the Reps could dig up some dirt on Dems talking without a clue what they are saying, I am convinced that Republicans are FAR more guilty in this area. Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Al Franken! You are a god among political comics.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-06-17 04:28pm

Some of it I liked and some I didn't. I tended to have problems with some of what Al said that contradicted my own observations of the world and the media, but he was spot-on about Ann Coulter.

All in all, I liked it a lot less than I liked "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot." I think Franken's becoming more and more of an asshole as time goes on and I enjoy his "humor" much less than I used to.

Predator · Post by **Predator** » 2004-06-17 08:42pm

I liked it.

One problem however is that for all that Franken strives to be accurate in his sources, he sort of ruins this in a few places by making ambiguous jokes, that occasionally had me wondering if he was really joking.

Another issue is that he is a Democrat, and so while his criticisms of conservatives are spot on, he of course avoids criticising any Democrats - now, I dont believe you have to be "even handed", or give equal criticism to each "side", its just that Franken seems to be one of those people who are only halfway there - yes, the Republicans and their minions are bad, but that doesnt mean Clinton and the Democrats are therefore good. The entire system is screwed and there really is no "good" side to US politics. He should read some Chomsky.

While his sights arent really broad enough, his brutal slaughter of the right in America is thorough and entertaining, I definitely recommend it.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-06-18 12:32am

I like his books, and i like his honesty, and i can respect him as a very upfront guy. But i do think he's a little bit of an ass. Still, i agree with him on almost all points.

He really blasted Anthrax Coulter. And O'reily, that was hilarious

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-06-18 03:56am

Predator wrote: He should read some Chomsky.

No. No one should have to read Chomsky.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-06-18 06:23am

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:No. No one should have to read Chomsky.

What's wrong with Chomsky?

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-06-18 07:42am

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Predator wrote: He should read some Chomsky.
No. No one should have to read Chomsky.

Chomsky doesn't read Chomsky anymore. He just cashes his checks and rolls around naked in all the money he made criticizing capatalism.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-06-18 08:37am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Chomsky doesn't read Chomsky anymore. He just cashes his checks and rolls around naked in all the money he made criticizing capatalism.

[Dr Evil]Riiiiiiiigggggggghhhht.[/Dr Evil].

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-06-18 11:31am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Predator wrote: He should read some Chomsky.
No. No one should have to read Chomsky.
Chomsky doesn't read Chomsky anymore. He just cashes his checks and rolls around naked in all the money he made criticizing capatalism.

You're such a whacko that I can't even begin to comprehend you.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-06-18 11:54am

Who is Chomsky?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-06-18 12:13pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Who is Chomsky?

Wikipedia is your friend

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2004-06-18 12:32pm

http://www.popcultures.com/theorists/chomsky.html
Read him for your self, if you can stay awake long enough.
He started out a a professor of cognative thinking and senabtic logic, and branched into politics. He is basicaly an anarchist, advocating a "Family style" of socialism.
His premise that: http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/rbr/noamrbr2.html
CHOMSKY: Criticism of 'democracy' among anarchists has often been criticism of parliamentary democracy, as it has arisen within societies with deeply repressive features. Take the US, which has been as free as any, since its origins. American democracy was founded on the principle, stressed by James Madison in the Constitutional Convention in 1787, that the primary function of government is to protect the minority of the opulent from the majority. Thus he warned that in England, the only quasi-democratic model of the day, if the general population were allowed a say in public affairs, they would implement agrarian reform or other atrocities, and that the American system must be carefully crafted to avoid such crimes against the rights of property, which must be defended (in fact, must prevail). Parliamentary democracy within this framework does merit sharp criticism by genuine libertarians, and I've left out many other features that are hardly subtle - slavery, to mention just one, or the wage slavery that was bitterly condemned by working people who had never heard of anarchism or communism right through the 19th century, and beyond.
Protecting the opulent from the majority? Tyrrany of the majority is the WORST kind of tyrrany, ask the French, about R Pierre, and "The Committy for public safetey".
The premise that working for someone else in a capitalist society is slavery, wheather it is direct slavery, as in the pre civil war south, or "wage slavery," overlooks the simple truth that you must work to eat, even alone on a desert island. He doesn't seem to grasp that taxes pay for everything the government pays for. The government pays for police, army, and judical services, as well as social services, so it takes a lot of your money.
It is very ironic a man so wealthy decries the evil of wealth, and writes about it at great length.
He also is intelectualy consistant, (to his credit) of the condemning all acts of harm of all governments. "The ends justify the means" is never a valid premise, no matter what the ends, or the meas. Thus he believes the deliberate evil of totalitarian regimes is equal to the unintended but inevitable consequences of democracies defending them selves.
He is the extreme opposite of Axis kast, is that he believes all government is evil, and equaly evil. The ironic fact he would be shot for saying such in many societies is lost on him. Thus not living in the real world, where you try for the best, but assume there will always be problems to correct, and make clear desicions about who is the most flagrantly evil, and who is a neccessary evil as far as governments are.
Typical ivory tower perfectionist, disliking all that is imperfect, and hating the rich, though he is one of them.

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2004-06-18 12:36pm

That's "semantic," dammit!

Gunshy · Post by **Gunshy** » 2004-06-18 02:47pm

Even though I'm a Republican (admittedly a fairly liberal, pro gay pro abortion one), I thought it was hilarious. I mean, I don't want people like Hannity or Limbaugh being the face of my party, even though it seems like they are.

While I don't agree with him on a lot of his philosohpy, I think Republicans should read it, to better understand the opposition (they're the loyal opposition, not the enemy), and to better understand some of the faults of the GOP.

And Operation Chickenhawk Ep 1 was the best fucking part of the whole book. I showed it to my Dad, a Vietnam vet, and he laughed his ass off.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-06-18 04:47pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Who is Chomsky?

Some Linguistics professor who thinks he's a Sociology professor, a Political Science professor and a philosopher with a minor in being God's gift to whiny activists.

Predator · Post by **Predator** » 2004-06-18 09:19pm

The most relevant of Chomsky's work to this discussion is his analysis of US foreign policy. Let him speak for himself:

Chomsky bitchslaps Richard Perle in debate

His views regarding the nature of government are not as important in this discussion as his illustration of the hypocrisy and disguised imperial motives of governments - Democratic and Republican - over the decades.