UN Tells Caterpillar to cease and desist human rights abuses

[MKSheppard]

Jerusalem Post

UN expert warns Caterpillar against selling bulldozers to Israel₪

A UN-appointed expert said Wednesday that he has warned Caterpillar Inc. that Israel's use of bulldozers to destroy West Bank orchards could make the company an accomplice in what he called the violation of basic human rights of the Palestinians.

Jean Ziegler, the United Nations' special expert on the right to food, said he sent a letter to Caterpillar chief executive James Owen expressing concern "about the actions of the Israeli occupation forces in Rafah and in other locations in Gaza and the West Bank."

Ziegler said his letter was the first under a new resolution passed this year by the 53-nation UN Human Rights Commission extending responsibility for protecting rights beyond governments to "non-state actors."

He wrote Owen under the letterhead of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, the overall UN watchdog, and sent his letter on his own as he is entitled to do, a spokesman said.

The Israelis are "using armored bulldozers supplied by your company to destroy agricultural farms, greenhouses, ancient olive groves and agricultural fields planted with crops," the May 28th letter said.

Ziegler, a Swiss university professor who has previously criticized Israeli treatment of the Palestinians, told The Associated Press that he had yet to receive a response from the company.
No comment was immediately available from Caterpillar headquarters in Peoria, Illinois.

"Allowing the delivery of your D-9 and D-10 Caterpillar bulldozers to the Israeli army through the government of the United States in the certain knowledge that they are being used for such actions might involve complicity or acceptance on the part of your company to actual and potential violations of human rights, including the right to food," Ziegler said in the letter.

The Israelis have also used the bulldozers to destroy "numerous Palestinian homes and sometimes human lives, including that of the American peace activist Rachel Corrie," he said.

The 23-year-old college student from Olympia, Washington, was in Gaza as a volunteer with the pro-Palestinian International Solidarity Movement in March 2003. The group claims that the IDF bulldozer driver saw Corrie and drove over her as she and a small group of ISM activists tried to stop him from razing a home.

The IDF, however, said that Corrie had died from injuries sustained by debris that fell on top of her as a result of the bulldozer's movements, rather than from direct contact with the bulldozer itself.

Ziegler, appointed by the UN Human Rights Commission, said after a 10-day visit to Gaza and the West Bank last year that Israel was confiscating fertile Palestinian land for military zones or Jewish settlements.

Ziegler and other so-called "special rapporteurs" are assigned by the commission to look for abuses. Each is appointed to concentrate on a specific country or right. They are unsalaried, but their expenses are paid.

[Stormbringer]

I wonder if the plans for the Killdozer on the internet yet?

[Col. Crackpot]

oh shit. the stupid! it burns! Hopefully, after this the UN can order 3M to stop selling box cutters to Al Quaeda.

[Howedar]

Oh my God that's fucking priceless.

The UN marginalizes itself more by the day...

[Admiral Valdemar]

If they succeed it'd be funny to see JCB pick up where Cat left.

[Master of Ossus]

You'd think the UN would have more important issues to deal with, like companies selling WEAPONS to Israel, but no.

I think we need to chastise any corporation that dares to sell water bottles to Zimbabwe, in the knowledge that those water bottles may be used as canteens by soldiers for a ruthless dictator.

[tharkûn]

Let's suppose that this twit manages to actually get them to stop delivering bulldozers, how long do you think that would stop the IDF? Each and every time anyone has stopped selling weapons to the IDF, the IDF has managed to either find a new supplier or get it made in country. Anyone care to guess how long before a domestic supplier would be up and running?

But what the hell, let's suppose that the IDF faces a chronic shortage of dozers, what do you think they will do? Stop the actions the UN is pissed about or use something else (like say demolishing houses with HE instead of dozers)?

This is UN irrelevancy at so many levels.

[Aaron]

Let's suppose that this twit manages to actually get them to stop delivering bulldozers, how long do you think that would stop the IDF? Each and every time anyone has stopped selling weapons to the IDF, the IDF has managed to either find a new supplier or get it made in country. Anyone care to guess how long before a domestic supplier would be up and running?

But what the hell, let's suppose that the IDF faces a chronic shortage of dozers, what do you think they will do? Stop the actions the UN is pissed about or use something else (like say demolishing houses with HE instead of dozers)?

This is UN irrelevancy at so many levels.

Even if the IDF were to magically run out of dozers, they can always use a CEV. Sometimes the UN amazes me, how can so much stupidity be confined in such a small space? Seriously I support the UN but stuff like this just makes them more irrelevant to the world.

[Elfdart]

While this UN rep's warning to Caterpillar means little and is futile so far, the arguments you guys have offered remind me of the arguments against those who tried to get companies to stop doing business in South Africa back in the 1980s. In other words, not very convincing.

I remember people saying "If Coca-Cola stops selling there, Pepsi will move in." Or was it the other way around? In any event, boycotts have to start somewhere and even if the ethnic cleansers are only slightly inconvenienced by this guy's actions, it will have been worth it. Even token gestures have some value.

[Ma Deuce]

Even if the IDF were to magically run out of dozers, they can always use a CEV.

Which also happens to have a 165mm demolition gun (at least in the case of the M728, which is used by Israel)...

[Aaron]

Which also happens to have a 165mm demolition gun (at least in the case of the M728, which is used by Israel)...

Well lets hope that they would only use the dozer function. But I won't hold my breath.

[Sea Skimmer]

Well lets hope that they would only use the dozer function. But I won't hold my breath.

The blade is too small to smash down houses without having much of it crash down onto the M728. That blade isn't the most capabul thing, which is why the US Army devoloped the M9 ACE amoung other things. But neither of those is reall comparabul to the ultra slow smashing power of a D9

[MKSheppard]

But neither of those is reall comparabul to the ultra slow smashing power of a D9

CAT could always develop a ROME PLOW attachment for Israel's D9s
to piss this moron off

[Darth Wong]

While this UN rep's warning to Caterpillar means little and is futile so far, the arguments you guys have offered remind me of the arguments against those who tried to get companies to stop doing business in South Africa back in the 1980s. In other words, not very convincing.

I remember people saying "If Coca-Cola stops selling there, Pepsi will move in." Or was it the other way around? In any event, boycotts have to start somewhere and even if the ethnic cleansers are only slightly inconvenienced by this guy's actions, it will have been worth it. Even token gestures have some value.

What are you talking about? Have you paid no attention to the news at all? Token gestures are not an appropriate way to send a message to a regime. The only appropriate way to send a message to a regime is to invade the regime's neighbour and blow lots of stuff up, and then glare at him.

[Elfdart]

While this UN rep's warning to Caterpillar means little and is futile so far, the arguments you guys have offered remind me of the arguments against those who tried to get companies to stop doing business in South Africa back in the 1980s. In other words, not very convincing.

I remember people saying "If Coca-Cola stops selling there, Pepsi will move in." Or was it the other way around? In any event, boycotts have to start somewhere and even if the ethnic cleansers are only slightly inconvenienced by this guy's actions, it will have been worth it. Even token gestures have some value.

What are you talking about? Have you paid no attention to the news at all? Token gestures are not an appropriate way to send a message to a regime. The only appropriate way to send a message to a regime is to invade the regime's neighbour and blow lots of stuff up, and then glare at him.

I stand corrected.

[tharkûn]

While this UN rep's warning to Caterpillar means little and is futile so far, the arguments you guys have offered remind me of the arguments against those who tried to get companies to stop doing business in South Africa back in the 1980s. In other words, not very convincing.

Up until Europe and the US are willing to embargo Israel, these measuers are useless. They are more likely to create backlash by the Jewish American lobby than anything else. What little political capital the UN has with Israel can be VASTLY better spent than on this type of irrelevant gesture.

But seriously if you make life hard enough for the IDF they may actually change, and start using artillerly instead. Half measures here are counter productive, either get a stick big enough to be a threat or don't take steps which diminish the chances of Israel listening, increase the chance of Israel using less discriminating tools, and increase the chances of the vast Israeli knowledge base being exported to less than stellar regimes.

This is, and will continue to be, UN irrelevancy. The UN lacks the werewithal to actually threaten Israel and until Europe and the States decide to do something it is an utter waste of time.

[Elfdart]

The half-measures and symbolic gestures are simply a starting point. Europe and the US can't be made to withdraw support from Israel unless the people in those places do it. One way to persuade them is constant pressure from agitators.

The US and South Africa were buddies for a long time and as late as 1986, the anti-Apartheid activists were ridiculed as hopeless cases. I remember all the smug dismissals of everything from pop stars refusing to play Sun City (and the song about it), Jesse Jackson, the civil disobedience, you name it.

But in just a few years, the Apartheid regime was dead and buried.

The Israel First crowd is clearly scared shitless of a similar movement against the Likudniks, hence the shrill -no, HYSTERICAL claims that any boycott of Israel is the work of Nazis and will lead to another Auschwitz. If a boycott of a tractor company is the kickoff, so be it.

[Stuart Mackey]

You'd think the UN would have more important issues to deal with, like companies selling WEAPONS to Israel, but no.

I think we need to chastise any corporation that dares to sell water bottles to Zimbabwe, in the knowledge that those water bottles may be used as canteens by soldiers for a ruthless dictator.

If it was catipillar selling dozers to apartheid South Africa, who used them to enforce apartheid and all the abuse that wrnt with it, would you approve?

The point of this exercize is to make the point that not only is it not ok for nation states to support the abuse of human rights, but also NGO's muist take responcibility for their actions.

[Master of Ossus]

If it was catipillar selling dozers to apartheid South Africa, who used them to enforce apartheid and all the abuse that wrnt with it, would you approve?

I wouldn't be telling them to keep doing it, but I wouldn't try to stop them, especially if there are other companies that are far more responsible for it than Caterpiller.

The point of this exercize is to make the point that not only is it not ok for nation states to support the abuse of human rights, but also NGO's muist take responcibility for their actions.

And so you make an example out of a company selling construction equipment? Why not a company selling weapons? Or ammunition? Or some sort of military equipment? Or military uniforms?

I'm aware of what the point is, but I'm saying that it's ridiculous and pathetic. If the best the UN can do is chastise a company selling bulldozers, then they are truly a waste of public funding.

[Stuart Mackey]

If it was catipillar selling dozers to apartheid South Africa, who used them to enforce apartheid and all the abuse that wrnt with it, would you approve?

I wouldn't be telling them to keep doing it, but I wouldn't try to stop them, especially if there are other companies that are far more responsible for it than Caterpiller.

Knowingly selling something to a nation that uses that something to abuse human rights is still helping that nation abuse human rights, it matters not if they are big part of it or not.

The point of this exercize is to make the point that not only is it not ok for nation states to support the abuse of human rights, but also NGO's muist take responcibility for their actions.

And so you make an example out of a company selling construction equipment? Why not a company selling weapons? Or ammunition? Or some sort of military equipment? Or military uniforms?

I'm aware of what the point is, but I'm saying that it's ridiculous and pathetic. If the best the UN can do is chastise a company selling bulldozers, then they are truly a waste of public funding.[/quote]

Well no one could ever accuse the UN of consistancy in anything But that is also irrelivant to the case at hand. The case is that a NGO has knowingly supplied equipment to a nation that has used that equipment to abuse human rights. Should that company be allowed to get away with it?

There is the political element to be concidered here, namly that the US has a history of supporting Isreal dispite some of its less than desirable activities. It may be that going after caterpiller was seen as the best way of doing somehting with out adverse reaction from a the US, which holds a veto in the security council.
Would the UN go after McDonnel Douglass for selling fighter aircraft to Isreal? I doubt it, as such a sale requires the permission of the US government {or is it just the Senate?), and I suspect that it would be taken as a direct critisim of US policy and sovereign rights.

[tharkûn]

The half-measures and symbolic gestures are simply a starting point. Europe and the US can't be made to withdraw support from Israel unless the people in those places do it. One way to persuade them is constant pressure from agitators.

Friend after numerous years spent living among Americans, I can safely say that "pressure" from agitators has precious little influence on policy decisions or even on the individual. Unless there is something out there which either directly impacts American lives or has immense shock value ... these tactics are most likely counterproductive.

Why is South Africa different? Because they lacked a vocal lobby, they had a helluvlot more shock value news blurbs (like the laws against 3 blacks congregating in the street), and managed to dove tail into the remnants of the civil rights movement. None of that has been witnessed with Israel. The most likely action, as witnessed on this board, is that Americans are going to denigrate the UN and back Israel.

This is not a state without levers, like South Africa, Israel has good military tech, a vocal lobby, a strong voting bloc, and has pretty much backed every US position in geopolitics.

But in just a few years, the Apartheid regime was dead and buried.

Mostly because South Africa had crap for a stable internal structure, had no domestic political levers in the US, and couldn't blackmail the US with hints about technology transfer.

The Israel First crowd is clearly scared shitless of a similar movement against the Likudniks, hence the shrill -no, HYSTERICAL claims that any boycott of Israel is the work of Nazis and will lead to another Auschwitz. If a boycott of a tractor company is the kickoff, so be it.

Ahh the ignorance. You do realise that "Likudniks" are the only people who are going to be able to deliver what you want right? Territorial retrenchment in Israel either comes out of left Likud or right Labour; and most often between a unity government requiring both. You need an awful big stick to get them to listen.

And this is exactly why I think the international community is oblivious about how to affect change. So long as the "likudniks" are demonised there is no incentive for them to work for the goals of the international community. Waiting for Meretz to take power is an exercise in futility. Trying to bully a lot of self confessed hawks whose political base depends upon a strong defiant stance and hoping they listen is a very poor strategy.

Do you think you might be further ahead say bribing one of the mainstream political whores to do what you want? As it stands the only thing Israel gains from listening is the dubious hope that militant attacks slack off, nowhere near enough to convince the populace or the government to fall in line with the UN's line of thought.

[Elfdart]

First of all, South Africa did have a fairly potent lobbying arm in the US -especially when you consider that Israel's lobby and even a few Jewish-American groups (like the ADL) lobbied on their behalf. Bible-thumpers like Pat Robertson who today claim that God gave ALL of Palestine to the Jews are the same con-men who claimed back then that God gave South Africa to the Boers and English. Every president was pro-apartheid. Not every president was pro-Israel until 1967.

The REAL difference is that there aren't 30 million Arab-Americans as there were 30 million blacks in the US. I didn't say stopping the piecemeal ethnic cleansing of Palestinians would be easy, but it can be done. In any event it has to start somewhere.

A much bigger liberation movement against a much more intransigent oppressor was started in Alabama when a middle-aged woman refused to give up her bus seat and people boycotted buses.