STGOD 4 OOC Thread

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-06-19 12:00am

sure thing

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-06-19 01:23am

Beowulf....

I have no interest in flamewars here, per se, but I would like to point out that speaking from a strictly unbiased standpoint, Hotfoot is right in this. I suggest that you take a bit of time, and go back and read some of the earliest stages of the STGOD, specifically the posts made by Lazarus. He made countless mistakes just like the ones you are making now. He was called down on it and destroyed a total of three times before he was fianlly booted from the STGOD cuz we couldnt take his shit.

Now go and read up on some of the special ops conducted by Thirdfain, all well structured and reasoned out. Thirdfain, despite his VAST AMOUNTS of intel ops, has never once been caught. He picks reasonable targets and carries it out correctly.

Try this: Hotfoot says he has "tight security." He does this because if he lists EVERY PLACE he has cameras and sensors, you will pick some random place and say "its not on the list." So he uses a general phrase. The way you would approach this, then, is in a more in-depth post. Say that your man walked around the complex looking for dead spots in the security system, and he noticed a camera blindspot inside a restroom, then targeted that as a possible area to retreat towards. THEN what you said would be a usable escape route.

By just saying "I run into a bathroom." (which is in itself metagaming.... you don't know Hotfoot called security on you, he said he waited a minute before doing so), you leave the possibility very open that the bathrooms are monitored. Ergo, Hotfoot is entirely justified in using this against you.

This counts for everyone else, as well. More Laz-style bangbuses just arent fun. Be smart about your spec ops, and dont get killed!

And thats just ONE of the places you are wrong. Argue this, and I will be forced to make long posts like this to shoot down every powergame/metagame you do. It takes a great man to admit when he's stupid. Be a great man.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-06-19 01:29am

The Nyllorian Empire now has The Bomb. Have a very nice day.

(Sorry, couldn't resist. Cookie to whoever catches the reference.)

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-06-19 04:27am

Beowulf wrote:No, there isn't the Lying Darkness keeping you guys alive, but you can keep cloning new bodies for your guys, and Gladshiem also has people who can't be killed really, because he'll just clone them another body. And his don't lose memories either. So in other words, you're just mindlessly blabbering.

It would be nice if you pointed your accusations in the direction they're intnded. If you don't like my nation's powers then tell me, ok?

And how many people from Gladshiem are there, BTW? BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS A FULL TIME ANSIBLE LINK GOING ON IN THEIR HEAD.

Reading is bliss.
I posted a post, which means that there is ONE of my people at the trade fair, having come with a teeny-weeny ship from my BIG ASS fleet and currently-under-construction outpost/city nearby.

Or do you mean in general? That would also fall under "reading is bliss" as it is stated in my OOB.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-06-19 11:06am

Hey Hotfoot, get on Yahoo messenger, will you? I wonder why I got to download that onto this computer, but not AIM. Oh well.

Edit: That request is good for just about all day; I'm here until ten tonight. Drew both shifts today. x_x

Edit 2: My Yahoo ID is in my profile if anyone else cares to contact me while I'm at work.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-06-19 02:57pm

Okay, if anyone has a problem with what I just did in the game, say so quick. I'm going to add that to my OOB after a few hours.

Edit: Right, Liberty class battlecruisers added to my OOB, as well as the other Nashtari designed ships added to my current numbers.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-06-19 05:02pm

I'll just say this. His Idea of tight security goes above and beyond what a real life secret facility would have. Tight security in my mind says cameras at the entryways, and in public areas. It does not mean cameras in the fucking bathroom!

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-06-19 05:06pm

Beowulf wrote:I'll just say this. His Idea of tight security goes above and beyond what a real life secret facility would have.

Um, right...because you obviously know so much about security. You're just pissed off because I called you on a stupid move.

Tight security in my mind says cameras at the entryways, and in public areas. It does not mean cameras in the fucking bathroom!

Wow, you've got pretty lax security then. Messing with you is going to be a breeze.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-06-19 05:23pm

Beowulf wrote:I'll just say this. His Idea of tight security goes above and beyond what a real life secret facility would have. Tight security in my mind says cameras at the entryways, and in public areas. It does not mean cameras in the fucking bathroom!

If that's your idea of what the security is like, you needed to STATE THAT when you were starting your mission. Say your guy went into the bathroom because that is where he noticed a hole in the defense grid. Hotfoot would then have to work from that. Your problem is that you assumed something about SOMEONE ELSES securtiy system, so you have no right to complain when your assumption turns out to be incorrect. Do you understand where Im coming from here...?

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-06-19 05:33pm

Rogue, I have a problem with your estimates for the fleet additions. It disturbs game dynamics to say "because I am so wonderful, an independent world joins me and now I have a whole new fleet group." I dont consider it blatant, despicable powergaming (far from it!), but I still dont think it should be allowed. Mainly because if you can do this, so can anyone else. We will get involved in an arms race over how many "independent worlds" can be taken into the fold and just how many fleet groups we can pull out of that. And if that DOESNT happen, then you have gained a fleet group (and a fully industrialized planet) while expending no time or effort.

I think at this point in the history of the world, all the nations that have joined star empires are going to. The ones that are independent are that way for a reason. New worlds can be added by conquest. Or, in a situation like yours, maybe a spec ops campaign to sway public opinion or assassinate leaders of the factions that would not want the world to become a part of your empire. Look at the precedents. Thirdfain has taken over some independent nations, but all were parts of military action. Marcao gained some independent nations, but he went the covert ops manner, and he was still opposed in the famous kung-fu battle. In both of these situations, the player who invaded did not gain a fleet group.

I am not saying that you cannot take this world. But to gain a fully developed world and a fleet group unopposed in two posts is a bit, um, bad.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-06-19 05:36pm

Marcao, Thirdfain. I rest my case.

Look, most other powers have been aggressively expanding and some have gained several worlds, often without any direct and serious opposition from other powers. Suddenly I get one new planet and its a problem?

Edit: And those ships are old in the case of the Nashtari built ones or smaller than normal in the case of Ronoghan built ones. Its not all that much of a boost. And again, Thirdfain has an entire freakin' new war cluster. Its not like I'm doubling my territory and fleet size for free here.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-06-19 05:37pm

Bugsby wrote:If that's your idea of what the security is like, you needed to STATE THAT when you were starting your mission. Say your guy went into the bathroom because that is where he noticed a hole in the defense grid. Hotfoot would then have to work from that. Your problem is that you assumed something about SOMEONE ELSES securtiy system, so you have no right to complain when your assumption turns out to be correct. Do you understand where Im coming from here...?

Well, actually, he would have to post that he discovered how my security was set up, how it functioned, if there were any exploitable holes in it, and then him disabling or exploiting the security...which would have only given him a very tiny window of opprotunity to act, but he went into this operation pretty much completely blind. His knowledge of the Consortium is, well, severely lacking. He doesn't have any agents in my space, I'm a relative newcomer to the Known Space scene, and my security/counter intel is very good.

Him complaining about security cameras in the bathrooms though seems to be mostly because it's something that hurts him. If you look back to yesterday's conversation a few pages back, he even goes so far as to complain that having AI-Controlled drones or vehicles is unfair, or going back to his first complaints about Dahak's power, that having any sort of AI, Droid, or Mechanical workforce is unfair, despite being widely accepted in the game by players and mods alike.

Meanwhile, of course, nothing he does is ever unfair...oh no....

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-06-19 05:42pm

Bugsby wrote:Rogue, I have a problem with your estimates for the fleet additions. It disturbs game dynamics to say "because I am so wonderful, an independent world joins me and now I have a whole new fleet group." I dont consider it blatant, despicable powergaming (far from it!), but I still dont think it should be allowed. Mainly because if you can do this, so can anyone else. We will get involved in an arms race over how many "independent worlds" can be taken into the fold and just how many fleet groups we can pull out of that. And if that DOESNT happen, then you have gained a fleet group (and a fully industrialized planet) while expending no time or effort.

Well, to be fair, it seems as though those ships are mostly outdated designes, not quite up to par with modern warships to say the least. Also, he did poise them to be gobbled up from near the beginning. Many players have had some easy conquests. I imagine that if Rogue left his new aquisitions without cover, they'd quickly grow discontent.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-06-19 05:45pm

Beowulf wrote:I'll just say this. His Idea of tight security goes above and beyond what a real life secret facility would have. Tight security in my mind says cameras at the entryways, and in public areas. It does not mean cameras in the fucking bathroom!

Then you would be unpleasantly surprised should you ever try something like this in MY place.
Compared to what I consider tight security, Hotfoot's place looks positively unsecured

Stop your whining, just because other people don't go along with your ideas...

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-06-19 05:48pm

Yeah, actually I'm going to have to redistribute more forces to cover Ronogho. I'm thinking I'll pull more fleet units from Orodan; it has the most to spare not counting Pinnacle, where I mass the strike fleet, and Nashtar, who's defensive fleet isn't going anywhere. This isn't a bunch of free ships; I'm actually diluting my navy quite a bit.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-06-19 05:52pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Yeah, actually I'm going to have to redistribute more forces to cover Ronogho. I'm thinking I'll pull more fleet units from Orodan; it has the most to spare not counting Pinnacle, where I mass the strike fleet, and Nashtar, who's defensive fleet isn't going anywhere. This isn't a bunch of free ships; I'm actually diluting my navy quite a bit.

OK, fair enough. I just wanted to make sure you werent pulling a fast one, lookin for freebees. That kind of thing has happened before....
but OK, complaint dropped.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-06-19 05:57pm

Right. And as I said, I try to use those battlecruisers as battlecruisers, they'll get raped. Oversized heavy cruisers, by modern standards. Check my description of them that I've added to my OOB; I said as much. Only advantage they've got is that they're fast and have big guns, but they're easy to blow apart for battlecruisers.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-19 06:03pm

Rogue, can you explain exactly what's going on. Because while others have bumped off NPC powers, that's usually bet set up and cleared before hand. I know I did the same. And I'm not sure I like the idea of adding a whole bunch of new units in the deal as well.

Edit: I can live with the acquisition of three over the hill capships of limited value.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-06-19 06:12pm

Stormbringer wrote:Edit: I can live with the acquisition of three over the hill capships of limited value.

Agreed. I have a similar problem with people getting free warships, free planets, and free industrial expansion. If you had such close relations with a neighbor (especially one capable of maintaining a full fleet group) that they would spontaneously choose to join your nation, then they would have warranted more than a couple of off-hand remarks as to their existence.

This isn't the worst sort of powergaming, but it definitely strikes me as a response to the diminishing of your percieved strength relative to other nations. A better plan would be to pursue diplomatic means to bring more nations into your alliance, or to take a little time and actually build your fleet.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-19 06:16pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Edit: I can live with the acquisition of three over the hill capships of limited value.
Agreed. I have a similar problem with people getting free warships, free planets, and free industrial expansion. If you had such close relations with a neighbor (especially one capable of maintaining a full fleet group) that they would spontaneously choose to join your nation, then they would have warranted more than a couple of off-hand remarks as to their existence.

This isn't the worst sort of powergaming, but it definitely strikes me as a response to the diminishing of your percieved strength relative to other nations. A better plan would be to pursue diplomatic means to bring more nations into your alliance, or to take a little time and actually build your fleet.

I second that, and if you plan of using NPCs please do something other than having them simply roll over and join you. For one thing a prosperous and well off nation isn't generally going to just throw in the towel. At least try and develop them before hand/

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-06-19 06:27pm

By the way--
It's been about 2-3 months since the Embassy crisis and the destruction of the Arcane Empire, right? I started a smallish construction run at that time, I think it may be concievable that by next saturday or the following weekend that the escort vessels might be completed. The larger vessels will take at least another couple of in-game months for the mid-range; longer for the first raters.

And then there's this little thing I noticed while checking out my declaration regarding that construction run--

King Casimir the Demon wrote:At least three of the former Covenant planets (Ezekiel, Rebkah, and Sacrament) now stand entirely unoccupied and in the hands of the native fanatics. Even as we exchange these messages fundamentalist priests and temple authorities are attempting to seize control, opposed in these efforts by ultra-militant (and likely foreign-sponsored) terrorists. The situation on these planets is currently chaotic but we estimate that in a matter of months the terrorists will have gained power and solidified it to the point that the planets will require a major military effort to be retaken, at great cost in life.

That was in response to the Nashtar refusing my help in occupying the aforementioned planets. I sound remarkably prescient.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-06-19 06:31pm

Those are still in the hands of the natives?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-06-19 06:43pm

Stormbringer wrote:Those are still in the hands of the natives?

I've been gone for some time, but IIRC the situation on Ezekiel (at the least) proceeded pretty much as I thought it would.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-06-19 06:46pm

IIRC, Monacora has now moved in, and is in the process of retaking the worlds properly, with all the long and bitter fighting that was to be expected.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-06-19 06:55pm

Yeah, well my main point is that the vampires don't have 'em.

I don't know why you came to me in the first place; my only occupation zone is on Ix'agal itself.

And if you wish me to not have Ronogho join, I'll gladly withdraw the post. Believe me, if that was an attempt to "catch up," as you say, I would have tried to bring in something other than three obsolete ships that can't decide if they're cruisers or capitals and a few destroyers.

That's not even one of my standard planetary defense fleets in strength; I sure as hell wouldn't try to use it on par with one of my carrier battle groups. If you require more setup, I'll do that. If you require that I not do it this way and have to actually conquer them/cheat in the elections, then I won't have them at all; my government doesn't play that game. Really, I would have preferred more setup now that I think about it. I don't know why I rushed. I intentionally started with fewer worlds than the limit but with two independent planets in the cluster to make things more interesting, then blew the "interesting" part. I will modify the post to mark a campaign to join of some kind rather than just having the election right there.