Can Dominion phased polorn beams penetrate Imperial shields

Haze Gray · Post by **Haze Gray** » 2004-06-17 05:51pm

"If the jump is done with sufficient accuracy, the judicator will be in direct sunlight for only a few minutes each way ...

Perhaps the jump wasn't accurate enough?[/quote]

Haze Gray · Post by **Haze Gray** » 2004-06-17 05:52pm

And even then, it would take a number of days to reinstall the equipment, in addition to fixing any radiation damage to the outer hull.

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2004-06-17 05:57pm

Haze Gray wrote:And even then, it would take a number of days to reinstall the equipment, in addition to fixing any radiation damage to the outer hull.

So you agree with me?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-06-17 08:58pm

teleguy wrote:Apart from the Judicator having to undergo one to several week long repairs?

Repairs of what nature? If the hull itself were being damaged by the sunlight, it would take a lot longer than a few weeks to repair the damage; there would be damage to the entire exterior of the ship! If, on the other hand, only specific delicate systems on the outside of the ship were damaged, this would make more sense.

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2004-06-18 11:28am

Well, we don't know exactly how efficient imperial repairmen (and droids) are. It took the Empire only a few years to built a 120 km Battlestation . From all we know they can probably built an entire Stardestroyer from scratch in just a few months and it didn't took them long to repair those 200 derelicts from the Katana fleet.

However the point is not if or how much the hull was damaged but radiation leaking through the shield. Thrawn said "Its hull can certainly handle that much" not "Its shields can certainly handle that much" . He would not have to worry about the hull if the shields provided sufficient protection in the first place.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-06-18 01:09pm

teleguy wrote:Well, we don't know exactly how efficient imperial repairmen (and droids) are. It took the Empire only a few years to built a 120 km Battlestation.

And what does the majestic former Empire have to do with an Imperial Remnant whose flagship is a lowly ISD?

Haze Gray · Post by **Haze Gray** » 2004-06-18 02:40pm

And did the Judicator have any support ships with it? I haven't read the book in a while, but I seem to remember the ship being alone. At its height the Empire probably had support/repair vessels that accompanied the fleets.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-06-18 06:43pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Batman wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Okay, going up against the Wongster himself may not be the smartest thing I ever did, but what evidence do we have for Wars vessels poking stuff outside their shields?
If they need to lower shields to use the Holo-Net, it stands to reason that they would need to lower shields for other kinds of sensor as well (comm systems and sensors are closely related).

Patently untrue for anything using optics and optronics, and short-range communications should be able to use visible-light lasers. Furthermore, if they have to lower shields to communicate, period, how was Vader informed about the Emperor's comm request?
IIRC there are instances of FTL comm through shields at insystem ranges in the EU, so either
a)they can shove subspace antennae through the shields-why not holonet ones?
or
b)they shields don't prevent FTL/comm per se but severely reduce the range (as supported by several EU comments WRT shields blocking 'long-range communication').

Also, the droidekas in TPM seemed to be poking their guns through their bubbles when they fired.

And, to my knowledge, they're the only example of a full-enclosure shield that small in Wars. Maybe the semipermeability tech doesn't scale down well?

Then perhaps you could explain why you can set off thermonuclear explosions outside Ackbar's window but brief exposure to intense sunlight swiftly burns off an ISD's sensors.

Going by your theory, those same explosions should habe blinded Home One through frying her sensors.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-06-18 08:37pm

About building efficiency...they can build a large factory (considered large on CORUSCANT) in 3 days with ONE CONSTRUCTION DROID.

(Ref: Wedge's Gamble)

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-06-19 12:11am

Praxis wrote:About building efficiency...they can build a large factory (considered large on CORUSCANT) in 3 days with ONE CONSTRUCTION DROID.

(Ref: Wedge's Gamble)

How large is this droid?

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-06-19 12:20am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Praxis wrote:About building efficiency...they can build a large factory (considered large on CORUSCANT) in 3 days with ONE CONSTRUCTION DROID.

(Ref: Wedge's Gamble)
How large is this droid?

40 stories tall.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-06-19 01:27am

Yes, but there's thousands of them all over Coruscant. That's a lot of construction power. And considering the size of a factory on CORUSCANT...

Haze Gray · Post by **Haze Gray** » 2004-06-19 01:23pm

Furthermore, if they have to lower shields to communicate, period, how was Vader informed about the Emperor's comm request?

Did you notice how Vader ordered the ship out of the asteroid field? If they had to lower their shields, they wouldn't want to be stuck in an asteroid field, now would they?

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2004-06-19 02:09pm

Darth Wong wrote:
teleguy wrote:Well, we don't know exactly how efficient imperial repairmen (and droids) are. It took the Empire only a few years to built a 120 km Battlestation.
And what does the majestic former Empire have to do with an Imperial Remnant whose flagship is a lowly ISD?

They possess the same tech level! The Remnant still controlled one quarter of the former Empire and was massproducing clones. So there should be enough resources and manpower to repair the hull of a Stardestroyer within a month, especially if they make it a priority, the ship was needed at the front afterall.

On a sidenote IIRC the Executer was not yet flagship when the first DS was constructed.

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2004-06-19 02:23pm

Batman wrote: b)they shields don't prevent FTL/comm per se but severely reduce the range (as supported by several EU comments WRT shields blocking 'long-range communication').

That's what I thought. Holonet transmissions usually require that the shields are lowered but such transmissions usually also involve interstellar distances . Those Stardestroyers in TESB were only a few thousand meters apart and it would be insane to drop shields inside an asteroid field only so that Vader can have a neat conversation when a simple audio or monitor contact could have fulfilled the purpose.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-06-19 02:24pm

teleguy wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:And what does the majestic former Empire have to do with an Imperial Remnant whose flagship is a lowly ISD?
They possess the same tech level! The Remnant still controlled one quarter of the former Empire and was massproducing clones. So there should be enough resources and manpower to repair the hull of a Stardestroyer within a month, especially if they make it a priority, the ship was needed at the front afterall.

On a sidenote IIRC the Executer was not yet flagship when the first DS was constructed.

The Remnant is not as united as the Empire. There's a lot internal conflict, this conflict can increce repair times and the clones where used due to lack of manpower. Also do you mean the Executor.

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2004-06-19 02:33pm

Haze Gray wrote:
Furthermore, if they have to lower shields to communicate, period, how was Vader informed about the Emperor's comm request?

Did you notice how Vader ordered the ship out of the asteroid field? If they had to lower their shields, they wouldn't want to be stuck in an asteroid field, now would they?

Vader already had a Holonet conference with several Captains inside the asteroid field ,remember?

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2004-06-19 02:53pm

Lord Revan wrote:
teleguy wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:And what does the majestic former Empire have to do with an Imperial Remnant whose flagship is a lowly ISD?
They possess the same tech level! The Remnant still controlled one quarter of the former Empire and was massproducing clones. So there should be enough resources and manpower to repair the hull of a Stardestroyer within a month, especially if they make it a priority, the ship was needed at the front afterall.

On a sidenote IIRC the Executer was not yet flagship when the first DS was constructed.
The Remnant is not as united as the Empire. There's a lot internal conflict, this conflict can increce repair times and the clones where used due to lack of manpower. Also do you mean the Executor.

I was always under the impression that Thrawn was pretty much in control of everything during that era . Only after his death did the Remnant split up. Moreover the Katana fleet was made combat ready pretty fast.
And yes, I meant the Executor. I mixed up the spellings from two different languages.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-06-19 02:54pm

As for the holonet thing, I was under the impression that you only had to lower shields when you were using your own tranceiver to directly contact another tranceiver (no relays) as said by the AOTC ICS. But if you use a relay then you do not have to lower shields, this could be because more power is required if you use your own tranceiver or the transmission is too powerful to act when the shields are up. Am I the only one who thinks this or have I just misunderstood what they said in AOTC ICS?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-06-19 03:04pm

Well what Vader Said Was "Take the ship out of the asteroid field so we can send a clear transmission."

Obvoiusly not even Vader dared to have static disrupt any transmission to the Emperor.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-06-19 03:37pm

Isolder74 wrote:Well what Vader Said Was "Take the ship out of the asteroid field so we can send a clear transmission."

Obvoiusly not even Vader dared to have static disrupt any transmission to the Emperor.

Now I could be the only one thinking that Vader was using a tranceiver to directly contact the Emperor without a holonet relay. This would be secure and would explain why they had to move out of the field, using hyperwaves transmissions without holonet relays (like what the Trade Fed core ships used) means that objects with large masks can interfere or block transmissions.

This may not even mean anything at all, but if the ships in the holonet conference were not using a relay (which they probably weren't because they were so close) then they could just directly contact each other using the tranceivers which would require shields down. So in essence I have just repeated all your arguments, wow, ok my times down here.

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2004-06-20 07:58am

Techno_Union wrote: This may not even mean anything at all, but if the ships in the holonet conference were not using a relay (which they probably weren't because they were so close) then they could just directly contact each other using the tranceivers which would require shields down.

That would mean that it's always easier to make contact to a relay even when the relay is several lightyears away and the other ship is nearby. Even if that is correct, what kept them from using a relay anyway if that had allowed them to keep up their shields ?

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-06-20 01:47pm

teleguy wrote:
Techno_Union wrote: This may not even mean anything at all, but if the ships in the holonet conference were not using a relay (which they probably weren't because they were so close) then they could just directly contact each other using the tranceivers which would require shields down.
That would mean that it's always easier to make contact to a relay even when the relay is several lightyears away and the other ship is nearby. Even if that is correct, what kept them from using a relay anyway if that had allowed them to keep up their shields ?

Perhaps easiest was not on their minds?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-06-20 02:25pm

Techno_Union wrote:
teleguy wrote:
Techno_Union wrote: This may not even mean anything at all, but if the ships in the holonet conference were not using a relay (which they probably weren't because they were so close) then they could just directly contact each other using the tranceivers which would require shields down.
That would mean that it's always easier to make contact to a relay even when the relay is several lightyears away and the other ship is nearby. Even if that is correct, what kept them from using a relay anyway if that had allowed them to keep up their shields ?
Perhaps easiest was not on their minds?

Or was not on Vader's mind.

He ordered a holonet conference inside of an asteroid field which may have forced them to use thier on board transmitteres

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-06-21 12:12am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Howedar wrote:Can you think of a reason for that aside from something getting through the shields?

The only possible reasons the ship could shake are:
A. the energy of the shot itself was high enough to impart significant kinetic energy to the ship
B. something got through the shields and caused something else

A is very often impossible simply due to the low amount of energy being thrown about.
I know where you are coming from but you must remember ST ships use mass manipulation technology. Therefore what you think should shake the ship isn't necessarily the case.

Well, the mass-lightening isn't likely to make a difference, if you can push around a vessel as if it lighter than it is, you can develop perpetual motion, and violate conservation of energy: Find a gravity field, and make a see-saw or rotating arm with masses on each end. Make one lighter and the arm will move, then make the other end lighter and it will continue to move... BAD!!
Mass lightening allows the vessel to cheat, in a way... If it taks x power to accel. an object normally, you would provide x with impulse engines. But if you reduce the object's mass, you can accel. the object with smaller engines--you just need to make up the difference with some other power source, like the warp core. Basically, this means Federation vessels can accel. their ships with smaller impulse engines, using warp power to make up the difference. An external impact can only cause an accel. as determined by the ship's normal mass. The only exception would be if the starship was programmed to provide the necessary power from the warp core during unexpected applications of force, to simulate low mass-ness... but why would they?