US Accused Of Killing Civvies In Fallujah

[Aaron]

CBC

BAGHDAD - There are reports that the U.S. military bombed civilians in the flashpoint Iraqi town of Fallujah.

U.S. army officials say the target of the precision missile strike was a safehouse operated by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Osama bin Laden's Jordanian partner.

"We have strong indications that Zarqawi has been operating out of Fallujah and in a number of other places. Significant number of persons associated with the Zarqawi network were inside the house," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt.

But Fallujah's police chief and an officer in the U.S.-backed Fallujah brigade told news agencies they could find no evidence of foreign fighters in the house. Other reports say most of the approximately 20 people killed in the attack were civilians, some of them women and children who had nothing to do with Zarqawi's alleged terrorist network.

Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, the ex-CIA operative who leads the interim government, announced a new get-tough policy on crime and terrorism and defended the attack. "We know that a house used by terrorists has been hit. We welcome this hit on terrorists anywhere in Iraq," he said.

Adnan Ebadi, an Iraqi businessman who frequently visits Fallujah, says he sees foreign fighters in the city attacking Americans and imposing Islamic law. He says the fighters are "from Syria, from Yemen, from Palestine from Pakistan."

Zarqawi has allegedly recruited fighters from all over the Muslim world. The U.S. has put a $10 million bounty on his head.

I'm reminded of the wedding/safehouse debacle.

[Montcalm]

I'm reminded of the wedding/safehouse debacle.

Maybe the US Intelligence were right about terrorists hanging there,but by the time the info was sent to the military they were already gone.

[Aaron]

Maybe the US Intelligence were right about terrorists hanging there,but by the time the info was sent to the military they were already gone.

That's entirely possible, it would depend on how long it took them to get the strike organised after recieving the intell. The terrorists also might have gotten wind of the op and took off.

[Stormbringer]

It's a terrible thing for innocent civilians to be killed but I really do have to wonder just what the situation is. I don't think that these terrorist peices of shit would hesitate for a second to use civilians as cover and it might well be that they are. Either way I wish these stories didn't just appear and disappear before there's any real answers turned up.

[Illuminatus Primus]

As angry as we are about Zarqawi stirring up shit, we cannot use the Israeli tactic of "missile attacks in dense cities." Civilian casualties are inevitable.

[Darth Wong]

In a daring early Sunday morning raid, American warplanes destroyed a house in Boston that intelligence sources had pegged as the location of an Al-Quaeda operative planning to launch attacks within the continental US. Two F16 fighter jets dropped 500 pound bombs on the house, destroying it along with four neighbouring houses.

Neighbours angrily accused Homeland Security of being reckless and killing innocents without cause, but RPGs and other terrorist material were indeed found within the destroyed house. Moreover, personal weapons such as assault rifles and handguns were found in the neighbouring houses. Army spokesmen said that this proved that all of the houses were involved in the terrorist activities.

Four children were said to be among the dead. Army spokesmen commented that the deaths of innocents are tragic but cannot be avoided in the War on Terror. Donald Rumsfeld commented that this only underscores the ruthlessness of the sort of people who would use civilians as human shields.

Just imagine if you saw that story on the evening news.

[Elfdart]

In a daring early Sunday morning raid, American warplanes destroyed a house in Boston that intelligence sources had pegged as the location of an Al-Quaeda operative planning to launch attacks within the continental US. Two F16 fighter jets dropped 500 pound bombs on the house, destroying it along with four neighbouring houses.

Neighbours angrily accused Homeland Security of being reckless and killing innocents without cause, but RPGs and other terrorist material were indeed found within the destroyed house. Moreover, personal weapons such as assault rifles and handguns were found in the neighbouring houses. Army spokesmen said that this proved that all of the houses were involved in the terrorist activities.

Four children were said to be among the dead. Army spokesmen commented that the deaths of innocents are tragic but cannot be avoided in the War on Terror. Donald Rumsfeld commented that this only underscores the ruthlessness of the sort of people who would use civilians as human shields.

Just imagine if you saw that story on the evening news.

People like Shep would say "Only four neighboring houses? Pussies!"

[Howedar]

Kindly keep your vendettas out of other threads, Elfdart.

As for the actual topic, I'm saddened that we've again reached this level, though I can't say I buy into Kendall's description of the "wedding" incident as a "debacle".

[Howedar]

Sorry, that came out as if I were pretending to be a mod. That was not my intent.

[Stofsk]

Sorry, that came out as if I were pretending to be a mod. That was not my intent.

Why is it considered 'modlike' to remind others of the rules? The mods can't be everywhere, and it's not like you were being rude or threatening to edit or split his posts.

And I apologise for going off-topic. As to the article, civilian casualties are a disgraceful but unfortunate occurance. The weird thing is the 'he said/he said' in the article - the Yanks fired off an expensive missile, so it would make sense that there was reliable intelligence at the time, and they state this as well; yet the aftermath showed there wasn't, and people attesting to that. Someone's been had here (to state the bleeding obvious ).

[Stormbringer]

In a daring early Sunday morning raid, American warplanes destroyed a house in Boston that intelligence sources had pegged as the location of an Al-Quaeda operative planning to launch attacks within the continental US. Two F16 fighter jets dropped 500 pound bombs on the house, destroying it along with four neighbouring houses.

Neighbours angrily accused Homeland Security of being reckless and killing innocents without cause, but RPGs and other terrorist material were indeed found within the destroyed house. Moreover, personal weapons such as assault rifles and handguns were found in the neighbouring houses. Army spokesmen said that this proved that all of the houses were involved in the terrorist activities.

Four children were said to be among the dead. Army spokesmen commented that the deaths of innocents are tragic but cannot be avoided in the War on Terror. Donald Rumsfeld commented that this only underscores the ruthlessness of the sort of people who would use civilians as human shields.

Just imagine if you saw that story on the evening news.

If Boston were an urban warzone my answer would be just the same. It's too bad innocent people had to die because terrorists are using them for cover.

[Vympel]

Why is it considered 'modlike' to remind others of the rules? The mods can't be everywhere, and it's not like you were being rude or threatening to edit or split his posts.

That's sort of it- threats by people who are not mods, in general, are frowned upon.

[Montcalm]

In a daring early Sunday morning raid, American warplanes destroyed a house in Boston that intelligence sources had pegged as the location of an Al-Quaeda operative planning to launch attacks within the continental US. Two F16 fighter jets dropped 500 pound bombs on the house, destroying it along with four neighbouring houses.

Neighbours angrily accused Homeland Security of being reckless and killing innocents without cause, but RPGs and other terrorist material were indeed found within the destroyed house. Moreover, personal weapons such as assault rifles and handguns were found in the neighbouring houses. Army spokesmen said that this proved that all of the houses were involved in the terrorist activities.

Four children were said to be among the dead. Army spokesmen commented that the deaths of innocents are tragic but cannot be avoided in the War on Terror. Donald Rumsfeld commented that this only underscores the ruthlessness of the sort of people who would use civilians as human shields.

Just imagine if you saw that story on the evening news.

This happened in the 1970s minus the f-16 and bombing the house,just cops having a gunfight with a radical group,ended with some of the people inside burning alive......or dead i don't remember exactly.

[Darth Wong]

In a daring early Sunday morning raid, American warplanes destroyed a house in Boston that intelligence sources had pegged as the location of an Al-Quaeda operative planning to launch attacks within the continental US. Two F16 fighter jets dropped 500 pound bombs on the house, destroying it along with four neighbouring houses.

Neighbours angrily accused Homeland Security of being reckless and killing innocents without cause, but RPGs and other terrorist material were indeed found within the destroyed house. Moreover, personal weapons such as assault rifles and handguns were found in the neighbouring houses. Army spokesmen said that this proved that all of the houses were involved in the terrorist activities.

Four children were said to be among the dead. Army spokesmen commented that the deaths of innocents are tragic but cannot be avoided in the War on Terror. Donald Rumsfeld commented that this only underscores the ruthlessness of the sort of people who would use civilians as human shields.

Just imagine if you saw that story on the evening news.

If Boston were an urban warzone my answer would be just the same. It's too bad innocent people had to die because terrorists are using them for cover.

Two respones:

1) Bullshit.
2) You are acting as though the bomb is the only weapon available to the US military, as if there is simply no other conceivable method of assaulting a house which can possibly be imagined in your worldview.

[Elfdart]

Just a hunch, but I think it's a safe bet that many of the same people who pooh-pooh the civilian deaths in these attacks in Iraq wanted to string up Janet Reno after Waco.

[Stormbringer]

1) Bullshit.

No, not bullshit. It's the reality of urban warfare.

2) You are acting as though the bomb is the only weapon available to the US military, as if there is simply no other conceivable method of assaulting a house which can possibly be imagined in your worldview.

Actually, there are plenty of ways. It's just that trying to make an assualt on a terrorist/guerilla safe house either requires elite troops (Delta, Ranger, SEALS) specifically trained for that or a willing to soak up a lot of casulaties from it. And there's the simple fact that right now just driving into Fallujah is pretty damn dangerous.

Right now, I don't at all agree that getting lots of Americans killed and potentially winding up with a repeat of the worst aspects of the Blackhawk Down scenario is a good idea.

[MKSheppard]

2) You are acting as though the bomb is the only weapon available to the US military, as if there is simply no other conceivable method of assaulting a house which can possibly be imagined in your worldview.

We could always get the Philly PD, they're experts in this kinda stuff,
only with C4, lots of it

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Just a hunch, but I think it's a safe bet that many of the same people who pooh-pooh the civilian deaths in these attacks in Iraq wanted to string up Janet Reno after Waco.

Didn't we recently have a thread about this?

If I remember, no one was really mad about Waco.

[Elfdart]

2) You are acting as though the bomb is the only weapon available to the US military, as if there is simply no other conceivable method of assaulting a house which can possibly be imagined in your worldview.

We could always get the Philly PD, they're experts in this kinda stuff,
only with C4, lots of it

Damn you, Shepherd! Damn you straight to HELL! I was going to use the Move bombing as an example, but pussied out because I figured everyone knew about Waco. The shame!

[HemlockGrey]

Yeah, that's our proud Philadelphia tradition...shoot first...and miss.