Dewbacks

[Cal Wright]

Bean: could you please provide the relevant passage? Do you even realise that they were wearing STORMTROOPER ARMOUR? I mean, how much more obvious could it be that they were stormtroopers?

weemadando: This is the Galactic Empire... surely they would have a few speeders that can work in the desert? There were plenty of civilian speeders that worked anyway... it would be an enormous flaw to have to go riding dewbacks every time they're on a desert planet.

DG_Cal_Wright: could be, but still doesn't explain why they would use dewbacks... they could just as easily confiscate speeders (which would both work in the desert and 'hide' their identity, if need be).

There's not passage actually about them purchasing the Dewbacks. I just got to the part where the troopers have entered docking by 94. It's possible it's in the radio drama. The point of confiscating speeders, is finding them to confiscate. They set down pretty much around the pod, so it would seem they either had something with them to mount onto the Dewbacks, or they found some desert scavengers. There are numerous lines in the novelisation though about how the sand constantly gets into things. 3PO often complains, Luke is working on a vaporator and the thinks to himself that the machine literally attracts sand into vital components. More than likely, seeing how the Devestator didn't know exactly where it was going (radio drama, Tantive IV jumps, ISD pursues. pretty quick action) they didn't have anything specialized. Thier speeders might work on Coruscant, possibly Geonsis, and on Endor (this could have been more modifications as well), but to contend with the ingestion of sand would take some workings. Maul did however, know he was going to Tatooine long before he left. He tells Sidious 'Tatooine is sparsly populated.' I am starting to lean back to a permanent garrison though. There is a scene were an officer reports in to Vader about reports from thier troops. Vader tells the officer to send more troops if necessary no matter how much the local governor protests. This could possibly be an Imperial Governor believe his own 'special' troops can handle the job. This in itself could indicate where the Dewback riding troopers came from.

[nightmare]

And of course, if they were indeed trying to keep a low profile, as canon speaks of, dewback tracks would be a whole lot less conspicuous than the trace signature of a repulsorcraft and it wouldn't show up on any scanner looking for flying craft either. I think they managed their operation admirably; they traced the droids, killed everyone the track lead to, and no one even saw them do it. If not for an old Jedi Master, the rebellion would have ended right there on Tatooine, everyone clueless of the one critical flaw of the Death Star.

[nightmare]

*ahem* damn, what's wrong with my sig.. this just proves that all sigs are evil and out to get us..

[Morte]

Seeing as nobody seems to have a better solution I suppose we'll have to accept that dewbacks were used because speeders couldn't work for some reason, no matter how ridiculous it is that an Empire spanning the entire galaxy couldn't get a few bloody speeders to work on the sand when there were plenty of local speeders that worked.

And of course, if they were indeed trying to keep a low profile, as canon speaks of, dewback tracks would be a whole lot less conspicuous than the trace signature of a repulsorcraft and it wouldn't show up on any scanner looking for flying craft either

If they were trying to keep a low profile they wouldn't be trudging aroudn in stormtrooper armour, would they? There are enough repulsorcraft on Tatooine that I doubt one more would bring any attention. You also seem to forget that there was an Imperial shuttle (known as an Imperial Landing Craft, IIRC) landing in that scene... obviously they were not worried about the signal that a repulorscraft or a flying craft would give off.

I'm still open to better suggestions if anybody has them.

[Cal Wright]

Seeing as nobody seems to have a better solution I suppose we'll have to accept that dewbacks were used because speeders couldn't work for some reason, no matter how ridiculous it is that an Empire spanning the entire galaxy couldn't get a few bloody speeders to work on the sand when there were plenty of local speeders that worked.

And of course, if they were indeed trying to keep a low profile, as canon speaks of, dewback tracks would be a whole lot less conspicuous than the trace signature of a repulsorcraft and it wouldn't show up on any scanner looking for flying craft either

If they were trying to keep a low profile they wouldn't be trudging aroudn in stormtrooper armour, would they? There are enough repulsorcraft on Tatooine that I doubt one more would bring any attention. You also seem to forget that there was an Imperial shuttle (known as an Imperial Landing Craft, IIRC) landing in that scene... obviously they were not worried about the signal that a repulorscraft or a flying craft would give off.

I'm still open to better suggestions if anybody has them.

What I have been saying, is that the Devestator made a quick jump to follow the Tantive IV. They would not have specialized equipment for every locale. There just wasn't enough time to prepare. Also, they didn't expect to even go down onto a planet. It just so happens that Leia was smart enough and quick enough to put the plans into R2D2. Once word got to Vader about the escape pod, he commanded they send down a team immediately. There just wasn't enough time to prepare equipment for such terrain. Where as speeders and repulsor lift craft on Tatooine would have been built with this in mind. Also, as I have stated the novelisation makes reference about how the sand constantly gets into machines made for the harsh environment.

[Morte]

Ok, I guess that's the only reasonable solution to the question...

There are still a few issues I have, though: wouldn't it make sense for a Star Destroyer, any Star Destroyer, to have at least some equipment for a desert planet onboard as standard, just in case they needed to make just that kind of an expedition? This isn't a big issue, however...

The bigger issue is: where did they get the dewbacks? On the one hand, you say that there was little time. But then on the other you say that the dewbacks probably weren't on the Star Destroyer to begin with... so where did the dewbacks come from? We see that the Imperials landed very close to the crash site, so unless they landed right on top of a bunch of dewbacks, who did they confiscate them off? You recognise this problem and say: "it would seem they either had something with them to mount onto the Dewbacks, or they found some desert scavengers". It seems highly unproffessional for the most elite fighting force in the galaxy to land near a bunch of wandering dewbacks and just say "hey, they could be handy" and jump on. Why would they bring down equipment from the Star Destroyer specifically for riding dewbacks if they didn't expect to have to?

You might say that the dewbacks came from a local garrison... but then we come to the same old problem: why would a local garrison be using slow, ponderous dewbacks when they can use speeders? To say that their speeders don't work is ridiculous, a garrison without access to working speeders would be as good as useless. Nor is it enough to say that they were trying to hide their identity. Notice that they were wearing stormtrooper armour, had no qualms about using Imperial Landers and there are already lots of speeders on Tatooine.

So, DG_Cal_Wright, while your response is the best yet there are still questions that need to be answered, specifically, if they had so little time, where did they get the dewbacks from?

[nightmare]

And of course, if they were indeed trying to keep a low profile, as canon speaks of, dewback tracks would be a whole lot less conspicuous than the trace signature of a repulsorcraft and it wouldn't show up on any scanner looking for flying craft either

If they were trying to keep a low profile they wouldn't be trudging aroudn in stormtrooper armour, would they? There are enough repulsorcraft on Tatooine that I doubt one more would bring any attention. You also seem to forget that there was an Imperial shuttle (known as an Imperial Landing Craft, IIRC) landing in that scene... obviously they were not worried about the signal that a repulorscraft or a flying craft would give off.

I'm still open to better suggestions if anybody has them.

I didn't forget that at all. It's canon, so we have to work out a solution for it. That's how it works. As for trudging around in Stormtrooper armour, well, no one saw them kill the Jawa's or Lars'es. In Mos Eisley, it didn't seem to be conspicuous. I would assume that they landed the shuttle, found that they had to track down the droids and kill every one along the way, so then they got hold of dewbacks and geared up with suitable weapons before going on the mission to hunt down the droids. For the same reason as above, they switched to bantha's after killing the Tusken. To remain inconspicuous. Don't you recall Leia bitching to Vader?

"LEIA: Lord Vader, I should have known. Only you could be so bold. The
Imperial Senate will not sit for this, when they hear you've attacked
a diplomatic..."

Mind you, the senate wasn't disbanded yet at this point. Good reason for keeping low profile on killing civilians. Just imagine what it would look like if a Lambda-class shuttle or TIE's swoop down and clean the desert from everything living. In retrospect, it would have been a good idea, but it's so easy to be wise afterwards, isn't it?

The Stormtroopers in Mos Eisley was standard issue, not sandtroopers, and they were probably there at the same time. Wether they were part of a garrison or not remains to be determined, but I would say they were. A small, token garrison. Jabba probably paid the Empire to stay out of his business. Or rather, some corrupted official somewhere.

[Guest]

The dewbacks were in the movie because GL has a soft spot for oversized creatures.

[Cal Wright]

Someone just pointed out that the Senate was still in power. So keeping a low profile was necessary. Takes care of that problem. Now, on to the bigger question. In TPM we see a herd of Dewbacks and in RotJ SE we see a herd of banthas. So we know they are wild and roam the wastes. More than likely though it would seem the troopers landed and scavengers were around. This would seem HIGHLY likely. Remember there are Jawas, and Sand people. Possibly even homesteaders also that could have seen the pod coming down into the atmosphere. In the novelisation Luke sees the battle overhead. He might not be the only one to take notice. Now, here's why there wont' be any help from a local garrison. First off, if it's a secret they attacked the Tantive IV they don't need word spreading around. Second, even if they did contact them, obviously the local garrison would have speeders that would work. I do see the point that an ISD would probably need to carry equipment capable of adapting to the sand. Much like adapting to the cold of Hoth, however it seems that AT ATs are tough bastards to begin with. The Devestator, at the time, was Vader's personal ship. I doubt it would carry anything more than necessary and instead leave landing equipment to other support ships. It did have a landing shuttle though, there's possibly a few of the these. It wouldn't have been until the other three ISDs showed up (ref novelisation, no one believes the Empire would bother with such a far out backwater world. Hence, no Imperial presence.), then they wouldn't have the other equipment they needed. By this time though, the movie had moved into Mos Eisley. No where for speeders to go where the troopers were at.

[Morte]

I would assume that they landed the shuttle, found that they had to track down the droids and kill every one along the way, so then they got hold of dewbacks and geared up with suitable weapons before going on the mission to hunt down the droids

Unfortunately you have a flaw in your logic... the dewbacks were there are the same time as the shuttle landed and the dewbacks were there when the stormtroopers first found it it was droids they were after ("look, sir, droids!")

[quote="DG_Cal_Wright]In TPM we see a herd of Dewbacks and in RotJ SE we see a herd of banthas. So we know they are wild and roam the wastes. More than likely though it would seem the troopers landed and scavengers were around. This would seem HIGHLY likely[/quote]

Doesn't it strike you as ridiculous that stormtroopers would be lucky enough to land among a bunch of dewbacks (scavangers or a wild herd or whatever) and just decide to hop on? I believe the dewbacks are native to Tatooine, even if they aren't it doesn't matter, the fact is that stormtroopers would have absolutely NO training in riding an animal such as a dewback. So why would they decide to use dewbacks, if they are so inexperienced on them (which they would be)? Note that you cannot say there were special 'sandtroopers' because that would imply that they would have equipment that worked on the sand (otherwise what would be the point of such a squad). I just find it hard to accept that stormtroopers would simply jump onto some passing dewbacks... it would be like a modern army riding elephants around (an army that had never seen elephants before).

I hate to leave this interesting debate but I'm leaving on a holiday later today and I may not be able to respond to any issues raised... don't think I'm giving up .

[nightmare]

I would assume that they landed the shuttle, found that they had to track down the droids and kill every one along the way, so then they got hold of dewbacks and geared up with suitable weapons before going on the mission to hunt down the droids

Unfortunately you have a flaw in your logic... the dewbacks were there are the same time as the shuttle landed and the dewbacks were there when the stormtroopers first found it it was droids they were after ("look, sir, droids!")

I may have a flaw in my logic somewhere, but that isn't it. A misunderstanding, rather. Where do you think they got the banthas they used later? That's right.. cutscene, it wasn't shown either. Since Dewbacks are native to Tatooine, is pretty obvious that the Stormtroopers got them from there. I'm satisfied with that, I don't worry about exactly how they got them. They did, it was on Tatooine, and the reason is known. End of story.

[Aaron2]

I may have a flaw in my logic somewhere, but that isn't it. A misunderstanding, rather. Where do you think they got the banthas they used later? That's right.. cutscene, it wasn't shown either. Since Dewbacks are native to Tatooine, is pretty obvious that the Stormtroopers got them from there. I'm satisfied with that, I don't worry about exactly how they got them. They did, it was on Tatooine, and the reason is known. End of story.

The Dewbacks were part of the local garrison. Even if stormtroopers from the Devastator happened to find a roaming herd of domestic dewbacks, where did they get the saddles and those prod things? How did they get so dirty so fast?

Aaron

[nightmare]

I may have a flaw in my logic somewhere, but that isn't it. A misunderstanding, rather. Where do you think they got the banthas they used later? That's right.. cutscene, it wasn't shown either. Since Dewbacks are native to Tatooine, is pretty obvious that the Stormtroopers got them from there. I'm satisfied with that, I don't worry about exactly how they got them. They did, it was on Tatooine, and the reason is known. End of story.

The Dewbacks were part of the local garrison. Even if stormtroopers from the Devastator happened to find a roaming herd of domestic dewbacks, where did they get the saddles and those prod things? How did they get so dirty so fast?

Aaron

They could be from the local garrsion, sure. I'm not really bothered with exactly where they came from, other than it was on Tatooine. An alternative explanation would be that the stormtroopers took it from locals, but so what..

[Cal Wright]

I would assume that they landed the shuttle, found that they had to track down the droids and kill every one along the way, so then they got hold of dewbacks and geared up with suitable weapons before going on the mission to hunt down the droids

Unfortunately you have a flaw in your logic... the dewbacks were there are the same time as the shuttle landed and the dewbacks were there when the stormtroopers first found it it was droids they were after ("look, sir, droids!")

[quote="DG_Cal_Wright]In TPM we see a herd of Dewbacks and in RotJ SE we see a herd of banthas. So we know they are wild and roam the wastes. More than likely though it would seem the troopers landed and scavengers were around. This would seem HIGHLY likely

Doesn't it strike you as ridiculous that stormtroopers would be lucky enough to land among a bunch of dewbacks (scavangers or a wild herd or whatever) and just decide to hop on? I believe the dewbacks are native to Tatooine, even if they aren't it doesn't matter, the fact is that stormtroopers would have absolutely NO training in riding an animal such as a dewback. So why would they decide to use dewbacks, if they are so inexperienced on them (which they would be)? Note that you cannot say there were special 'sandtroopers' because that would imply that they would have equipment that worked on the sand (otherwise what would be the point of such a squad). I just find it hard to accept that stormtroopers would simply jump onto some passing dewbacks... it would be like a modern army riding elephants around (an army that had never seen elephants before).

I hate to leave this interesting debate but I'm leaving on a holiday later today and I may not be able to respond to any issues raised... don't think I'm giving up .[/quote]

Now that is nonsense. Dewbacks move like the Reek on Geonosis and we know there are other animals like them. Riding a four legged animal that, to me seems slow and cumbersome under normal conditions shouldn't be hard. To say the Troopers had no training on riding an animal like that doesn't make sense.

[neoolong]

Animals can still be unpredictable, despite how slow and cumbersome the look. Elephants look like that, but can still go on a rampage. They probably came from a local garrison. Also, it seemed to me that dewbacks and speeders kind of seems like horses and motorcycles for cops today, both are still used.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Doesn't it strike you as ridiculous that stormtroopers would be lucky enough to land among a bunch of dewbacks (scavangers or a wild herd or whatever) and just decide to hop on?

Maybe the Stormtroopers were playing too much GTA 3.

[Soontir C'boath]

I always thought that those DewBacks were from the local garrison all else don't really make sense for me.

Cyaround,
Jason

[DeceasedHorse]

My guess would be itt's the equivlent of using a camel instead of a horse in the desert. Speeders are probably difficult to maintain in that enviorment, and given tatooine's remote location, the local garrison probably wasn't high on the list for replacement parts so they used animals.

Or, it was another stupid thing thrown into the special edtion for no good reason(*cough* greedo shooting first *hack* *wheeze*)

[Cal Wright]

Dewback riding stormtroopers have always been there. Woot your first post. heh, you've just taken your first step into a fucked up universe. Welcome!

[Soontir C'boath]

My guess would be itt's the equivlent of using a camel instead of a horse in the desert. Speeders are probably difficult to maintain in that enviorment, and given tatooine's remote location, the local garrison probably wasn't high on the list for replacement parts so they used animals.

Or, it was another stupid thing thrown into the special edtion for no good reason(*cough* greedo shooting first *hack* *wheeze*)

No Dewbacks were in the first ones.

Cyaround,
Jason

[Pcm979]

Inaugural post. Hi Morte.
For a start, there were Dewbacks (both ridden & unridden) in the origionals. In my special edition VHS, they had a special little preview section about what was changed, and one of them was the Dewback. They showed before and after photos, and the origional one was just a vauge little lump in the background. I'll get some pics if I can find 'em!
PS: The other Dewback that was 'specialised' was the one who takes a snap at Luke as they're walking into the cantina.

[Pcm979]

Damn, I just realised how OLD this topic is. Oh well.

[spongyblue]

I see them using Dewbacks from a tracking point of view. If all you got is foot prints in the sand to follow somebody or something, would you wanna zoom by at 70+mph? I would rather be on animal back so I can closly watch the ground. I doubt that trooper who found the one droid part by the pod was sitting in the back seat of a speeder.

[Pcm979]

I thought that speeders could go slower than 70 MPH. You'd need a runway to park one! No wonder they use Dewbacks.

[Typhonis 1]

First cost effectiveness they are local animals ,can be trained as mounts and rreplacements are readily available .Sure Speeders are faster but unlike Star Trek the garrison went with what worked and sometimes low tech is hard to beat also the dewbacksonly needed training and a saddle a speeder will need to be modifired ((like dust screens on the engine intakes sand could play havok wih the turbines they used))