What would a lightsaber do to a changeling?

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-06-22 07:39pm

Just sort of curious as to what people think a lightsaber would do, if it came into contact with a changeling. Would it simply pass right through?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-06-22 07:47pm

Only if the changling somehow avoided all contact with it.

If the two touched...it's very possible it would die given the amount of energy it has come in contact with.

warpusher · Post by **warpusher** » 2004-06-22 07:58pm

If he did come in contact with it...he'd be toast....er vapor...

I think that he would quickly start to boil off after any prolonged exposure...If prolonged exposure (a few seconds) in TPM can begin to melt through an armored blast door...I think a changling would quickly boil....

or his limbs would be quickly removed and the remaining puddles boiled...

Or he could be splattered across the wall by being Force Tossed then the puddles boiled...

Actually, I'd like to see what very cold Nitrogen liquid would do...would a changling have the T2 shattering effect? if this were the case...Stormies with liquid Nitrogen tanks would have fun...

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-06-22 10:58pm

We've seen sustained phaser fire blow a changeling apart, and they are fairly low energy weapons by comparison to a lightsaber

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-23 12:58am

The lightsaber would vaporize the liquid matter that makes up the changeling. Given enough hits the changeling would be killed.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-06-23 01:23am

Thing is, the lightsaber would cut in a straight line. It would cut the changeling in half- it would either die immediately, or reattach itself.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-23 02:59am

Changelings aren't really liquid. They wouldn't boil.

But...they can be overloaded by energy weapons. One thing - lightsabres seem to make the matter right in the middle of the blade disappear the way phasers do. And the rest gets hot, but isn't taken to temperatures that would destroy a changeling.

So they'd cut right through, and the changeling would take 'damage' according to their form - if they're humanoid, they get cauterized. If they're metal, the edge is melted. Parts that got separated would do whatever they normally do (if you cut a changeling in half, what determines which half will stay alive and which part will stay liquid?). But they wouldn't explode - lightsabres don't just dump energy in radiant form as phasers do.

Of course, this is assuming the blade actually interacts with them. If they're water or air, it won't.

Equinox2003 · Post by **Equinox2003** » 2004-06-23 05:22am

Cut in half to be sure, of course the founder could always re-form itself
again after that. I would think using the Force to stop them from changing
shape and from moving away (if that is possible, I'm not sure) and then
simply using a blaster would be a better way of fighting a founder.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-23 06:16am

Equinox2003 wrote:Cut in half to be sure, of course the founder could always re-form itself
again after that. I would think using the Force to stop them from changing
shape and from moving away (if that is possible, I'm not sure) and then
simply using a blaster would be a better way of fighting a founder.

The Force couldn't stop them from changing shape - Force TK isn't that precise. And if they're in their fluid state they might be able to move away too.

But yes, blasters would be more effective. Even if they're less powerful, they deliver their energy more directly.

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2004-06-23 11:09am

Metrion Cascade wrote:The Force couldn't stop them from changing shape - Force TK isn't that precise. And if they're in their fluid state they might be able to move away too.

One of the new Jedis used the force to push a HUGE number of nanites ( a whole pot full ) out of the body of a person... I would call this precise.

StimNeuro · Post by **StimNeuro** » 2004-06-23 12:24pm

HRogge wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:The Force couldn't stop them from changing shape - Force TK isn't that precise. And if they're in their fluid state they might be able to move away too.
One of the new Jedis used the force to push a HUGE number of nanites ( a whole pot full ) out of the body of a person... I would call this precise.

Except that Jedi was performing the feat while in near-perfect conditions of the course of hours. A fight against a changeling would lack the silence, willing subject, and time that the new Jedi was able to count on.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-06-23 12:40pm

StimNeuro wrote:
HRogge wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:The Force couldn't stop them from changing shape - Force TK isn't that precise. And if they're in their fluid state they might be able to move away too.
One of the new Jedis used the force to push a HUGE number of nanites ( a whole pot full ) out of the body of a person... I would call this precise.
Except that Jedi was performing the feat while in near-perfect conditions of the course of hours. A fight against a changeling would lack the silence, willing subject, and time that the new Jedi was able to count on.

So? There's billions or trillions of discrete objects which must be separately moved out of a host body. That's far more complicated than containing a liquid blob, which we can do today with these magical devices called "bottles". Simply slap the changeling around with a Force wall and then squish him against the floor with it until he's dazed, and then you can do whatever you want to him. This isn't complicated.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2004-06-23 12:52pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:One thing - lightsabres seem to make the matter right in the middle of the blade disappear the way phasers do.

Actually, it's more like vaporizing a microscopically thin strip.

And the rest gets hot, but isn't taken to temperatures that would destroy a changeling.

Over 100MW isn't enough???

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-06-23 12:56pm

Mad wrote:
And the rest gets hot, but isn't taken to temperatures that would destroy a changeling.
Over 100MW isn't enough???

Apparently, a changeling is tougher than a Trade Federation starship heavy blast door. Who knew?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-06-23 01:23pm

Odo simply exploded when hit with a cardassian phaser blast. This was in the mirror universe though.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-06-23 04:54pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Odo simply exploded when hit with a cardassian phaser blast. This was in the mirror universe though.

why would it make any difference which universe, given that the races are identical in every physical aspect in both universes

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-06-23 05:07pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:And the rest gets hot, but isn't taken to temperatures that would destroy a changeling.

I love your numbers.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-23 05:21pm

HRogge wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:The Force couldn't stop them from changing shape - Force TK isn't that precise. And if they're in their fluid state they might be able to move away too.
One of the new Jedis used the force to push a HUGE number of nanites ( a whole pot full ) out of the body of a person... I would call this precise.

Then I'll concede that they'd be able to hold the changeling there (unless there's some Founder-breakable limit to how much physical force they can stop, which I'd assume there is). Hoever changing shape for a Founder starts not at the microscopic level, but the subatomic.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-23 05:24pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Mad wrote:
And the rest gets hot, but isn't taken to temperatures that would destroy a changeling.
Over 100MW isn't enough???
Apparently, a changeling is tougher than a Trade Federation starship heavy blast door. Who knew?

Well, considering the Changeling could BE the door, yes. And the Changeling wouldn't have to be conventionally 'tough' - simply apply the energy to mimicking hotter metal. Melting and glowing isn't 'destruction' for a changeling.

Any numbers on how powerful Klingon disruptors are?

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-23 05:27pm

Darth_Zod wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:Odo simply exploded when hit with a cardassian phaser blast. This was in the mirror universe though.
why would it make any difference which universe, given that the races are identical in every physical aspect in both universes

Weapons aren't.

But yes...they do explode with enough radiant energy. And I'm sure a lightsabre could put it out - but that doesn't mean it would on contact with a Changeling that's mimicking a person. 100 MW weren't dumped into Qui-Gon Jinn when he was stabbed.

And how did we get into a discussion about Jedi? They aren't lightsabres.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-23 06:12pm

StimNeuro wrote:
HRogge wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:The Force couldn't stop them from changing shape - Force TK isn't that precise. And if they're in their fluid state they might be able to move away too.
One of the new Jedis used the force to push a HUGE number of nanites ( a whole pot full ) out of the body of a person... I would call this precise.
Except that Jedi was performing the feat while in near-perfect conditions of the course of hours. A fight against a changeling would lack the silence, willing subject, and time that the new Jedi was able to count on.

Ah, yes. And I keep forgetting how rarely and imprecisely it was used at Geonosis (why'd Windu chase Fett instead of holding him there and yanking the Westar-34 out of his hand?). Concession retracted - a Jedi couldn't hold a Founder in place.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-23 06:14pm

Actually...there are very few radiant energy weapons in Trek. All we've ever seen destroy a changeling were particle weapons.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-06-23 06:17pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:
Darth_Zod wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:Odo simply exploded when hit with a cardassian phaser blast. This was in the mirror universe though.
why would it make any difference which universe, given that the races are identical in every physical aspect in both universes
Weapons aren't.

given it was a cardassian phaser, is there any evidence that cardassian phasers in the mirror universe are of different power capability than the ones in the primary universe? if not, then that shouldn't matter either.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-23 06:25pm

Darth_Zod wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:
Darth_Zod wrote: why would it make any difference which universe, given that the races are identical in every physical aspect in both universes
Weapons aren't.
given it was a cardassian phaser, is there any evidence that cardassian phasers in the mirror universe are of different power capability than the ones in the primary universe? if not, then that shouldn't matter either.

Considering the entire union is more powerful, the burden of proof is on you. Separate races with separate histories.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-06-23 06:26pm

Unless you're proposing that a single Cardassian phaser in the primary universe has as much power per shot as the dozens of Klingon disruptors that needed half a dozen shots each to explode the Gowron changeling.