Unfair fight

Pine Tree · Post by **Pine Tree** » 2004-06-22 05:00pm

Everyone is comparing the entire star wars galaxy to a tiny segment of the Trek one! If you want a fair fight it should be galaxy vs. galaxy! Lets see how SDs match up against cubes, changelings, biogenic weapons(chains of command TNG episode), transphasic trops. The Voth from Voyager:origins could also be an interesting factor, they were able to transport the entire ship into their docking bay and power down its computers! (More advanced then SW computers, think how long it took Falcon's navcomp to calculate the course out of tatoonie system, ST ships make warp jumps in seconds) Not to mention their advanced invisibility and transwarp techs! There are also caretaker aliens from Voyager, (No Q, that would be cheap!) As a side note I challenge anyone to provide an example from SW of better engineering tech than seen in the Dysione shell from TNG Relics. I know the Federation did not make it, but they could learn from it. (Also if a metel could withstand the stresses involved in somewthing that big how would it fair against turbolaser fire?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-06-22 05:02pm

No one has brought up the entire Star Wars Galaxy. They have brought up the Empire.

The FULL Star Wars Galaxy includes it's own superbeings, like the Aii Ting Monks, ForceUsers who can toss fleets through hyperspace, and sentient starships.

Jordie · Post by **Jordie** » 2004-06-22 05:02pm

Read the main site, seriously.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-06-22 05:04pm

What's sad is that it wouldn't even take the Empire alone, a sector fleet against the Alpha Quadrant would prove horribly one sided. Adding an entire galaxy including the Trekkie one shot wonders is getting a little trite by this point. Give up the ghost.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-06-22 05:05pm

Pine Tree wrote:Everyone is comparing the entire star wars galaxy to a tiny segment of the Trek one! If you want a fair fight it should be galaxy vs. galaxy! Lets see how SDs match up against cubes, changelings, biogenic weapons(chains of command TNG episode), transphasic trops.

Borg cubes would be fried in seconds by a bog-standard ISD. Bioweapons are nothing new to Star Wars. And transphasic torps are specialized anti-borg weapons which are designed to bypass their particular defenses somehow; there is no evidence that they are any more powerful.

The Voth from Voyager:origins could also be an interesting factor, they were able to transport the entire ship into their docking bay and power down its computers! (More advanced then SW computers, think how long it took Falcon's navcomp to calculate the course out of tatoonie system, ST ships make warp jumps in seconds)

I see you ignored the point I made about Tydirium and comparisons of warp vs hyperdrive earlier, asshole.

Not to mention their advanced invisibility and transwarp techs! There are also caretaker aliens from Voyager, (No Q, that would be cheap!) As a side note I challenge anyone to provide an example from SW of better engineering tech than seen in the Dysione shell from TNG Relics.

Wow, that might be relevant if the creators of that thing weren't long gone, and if that shell were actually capable of doing something besides just sitting there.

I know the Federation did not make it, but they could learn from it.

How? They have shown an abysmal inability to learn from example; they can't even replicate Borg transwarp after 80 years of trying and the assistance of a captured and co-operative Borg drone.

(Also if a metel could withstand the stresses involved in somewthing that big how would it fair against turbolaser fire?

Probably quite poorly, since materials are weaker when they are already under load.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-06-22 05:05pm

I suppose we should be thankful he left Q out!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-06-22 05:06pm

DaveJB wrote:I suppose we should be thankful he left Q out!

Yeah, Q would stop the Empire, just like Q stopped the Borg, and Q stopped the Dominion, and ... oh wait a minute ...

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-06-22 05:06pm

Pine Tree wrote:Everyone is comparing the entire star wars galaxy to a tiny segment of the Trek one! If you want a fair fight it should be galaxy vs. galaxy! Lets see how SDs match up against cubes, changelings, biogenic weapons(chains of command TNG episode), transphasic trops. The Voth from Voyager:origins could also be an interesting factor, they were able to transport the entire ship into their docking bay and power down its computers! (More advanced then SW computers, think how long it took Falcon's navcomp to calculate the course out of tatoonie system, ST ships make warp jumps in seconds) Not to mention their advanced invisibility and transwarp techs! There are also caretaker aliens from Voyager, (No Q, that would be cheap!) As a side note I challenge anyone to provide an example from SW of better engineering tech than seen in the Dysione shell from TNG Relics. I know the Federation did not make it, but they could learn from it. (Also if a metel could withstand the stresses involved in somewthing that big how would it fair against turbolaser fire?

We're not comparing SW galaxy vs. th Federation, but the Empire vs. the federation. READ THE MAIN SITE!!!!!

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-06-22 05:07pm

Darth Wong wrote:
DaveJB wrote:I suppose we should be thankful he left Q out!
Yeah, Q would stop the Empire, just like Q stopped the Borg, and Q stopped the Dominion, and ... oh wait a minute ...

Actually, he'd be pretty much conceeding the argument by involving Q, since that's admitting ST's "normal" races would be killed by the Empire!

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-06-22 05:07pm

I observe that this post is made only after Pine Tree is ripped to shreds regarding Federation "advantages".

Be that as it may:

Everyone is comparing the entire star wars galaxy to a tiny segment of the Trek one! If you want a fair fight it should be galaxy vs. galaxy! Lets see how SDs match up against cubes,

Been done, cubes go down hard. As shown by ST:FC, raw power will destroy cubes even after adaptation.

changelings,

They weren't good enough to ever seriously threaten the Federation for Chrissakes.

biogenic weapons(chains of command TNG episode),

We have those now, dipshit. The Empire is quite used to them.

transphasic trops.

Please explain what good a transphasic trop (something that grows in the tropics, perhaps?) will be against the Empire. Be sure to provide proof that these penetrate Borg shields, then be sure to demonstrate what this means vs. Imperial shields.

The Voth from Voyager:origins could also be an interesting factor, they were able to transport the entire ship into their docking bay and power down its computers!

This is relevant... how?

(More advanced then SW computers, think how long it took Falcon's navcomp to calculate the course out of tatoonie system, ST ships make warp jumps in seconds)

Ah yes, that's why a trash-can sized droid could store and manipulate detailed plans for a 160-km wide battlestation.

Not to mention their advanced invisibility and transwarp techs!

No, you certainly didn't mention them, did you? Sure as hell you didn't quantify their abilities. You simply act as though you can wave your hands, mention transwarp, and then you win! [quote
There are also caretaker aliens from Voyager, (No Q, that would be cheap!)[/quote]Go ahead, then we'll bring out Force Storms.

Never mind that the Voyager crew could actually turn the tide of a Q civil war...

As a side note I challenge anyone to provide an example from SW of better engineering tech than seen in the Dysione shell from TNG Relics.

I don't know what the fuck a Dysione shell is. Perhaps you mean Dyson?

As for that, it is indeed impressive but as far as we know the builders are long dead and so would not be fair game in a vs scenario unless you regress all other cultures back to the same time.

Or you could go ahead and babble about the Dyson Sphere, and we could bring out the Star Forge. [qute
I know the Federation did not make it, but they could learn from it.[/quote]Holy shit, a claim!

Provide proof, please.

(Also if a metel could withstand the stresses involved in somewthing that big how would it fair against turbolaser fire?

Structural strength does not necessarily have a great deal to do with resistance to thermal damage.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-06-22 05:12pm

I love the whole "it's not fair! I want my guys to be able to win!" argument made time and itme again by rabid fanwhores of just about anything. It'd be like desparately trying to find a way for Xena warrior princess to be able to survive a hydrogen bomb blast and take down a main battle tank in combat. She couldn't, get over it.

It's not about setting up a 'fair fight' and wanking off to the results like its some kind of scifi cybersex; it's comparision of portrayed technological and economic capabilities.

And even pitting one galaxy against the other wouldn't do any good; none of the ST civiilizations really have the technology to take on a 500,000 year-old galaxy-spanning superpower like the one in Star Wars. Hell, the Empire is casually strip-mining more dead planets than all those ST groups have inhabited worlds.

All Pine Tree is doing is admitting there's too much difference between the two tech levels, but doesn't want to admit his franchise is the weaker one.

Cause, you know, heaven forbid we like anything that couldn't kick the ass of everything else.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-06-22 06:09pm

Funny though. By calling the debate unfair, he concedes the debate itself by recognizing the end result.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2004-06-22 06:14pm

Alyeska wrote:Funny though. By calling the debate unfair, he concedes the debate itself by recognizing the end result.

Which is a very quick turn-around from his previous posts, considering the fact he's failed to directly address any rebuttals (other than try to incorporate conflicting evidence into his poorly constructed arguments).

Makes you wonder what happened to the 'great' points he made just yesterday.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-06-22 10:28pm

It seems history does repeat itself. Pine Tree, I don't know if you've caught on yet but many of these debates have already been done by a great many trekkies before your time who actually have a working knowledge of Star Trek canon and Star Wars. You seem to be missing the other half, Star Wars.

Reading this site would be a good start but if you think it's bias, go ahead and do your own damn research and see what you come up with. Make sure you follow the rules of canon though and if you find something come back here and present it. I'm pretty sure it will already have been done but at least you won't look like an idiot when you say things like "Star Wars only have ray shielding"

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-06-22 10:54pm

Hey pine tree, i HATE to point this out to you (okay, I don't hate to...)

There is at least ONE and hints at SEVERAL Dysons Spheres in the Star Wars galaxy. (I personally have never read about any more then the one). The Empire uses it as a manufacturing facility. It's the home of one of the biggest private sector star ship manufacturer's in the galaxy. And the original builders are living there still.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-06-23 12:16am

Why, yes it is an unfair fight. Just like any contest between Marc Mitscher's Task Force 58 and the Spanish Armada would be an unfair fight. Eat it.

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-06-23 12:54am

Solauren wrote:Hey pine tree, i HATE to point this out to you (okay, I don't hate to...)

There is at least ONE and hints at SEVERAL Dysons Spheres in the Star Wars galaxy. (I personally have never read about any more then the one). The Empire uses it as a manufacturing facility. It's the home of one of the biggest private sector star ship manufacturer's in the galaxy. And the original builders are living there still.

Damnit, you beat me to the punch. Yeah, Kuat has a Dyson Sphere. It's not a solid one like the one in ST, (no doubt because the Kuati actually want people to enter their system) but I have no doubt that if they really wanted to, they could throw a solid one together.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-23 01:34am

Everyone is comparing the entire star wars galaxy to a tiny segment of the Trek one!

The debate is about the Federation vs the Empire. Its not about between two galaxies.

If you want a fair fight it should be galaxy vs. galaxy!

Even then the Trek galaxy loses.

Lets see how SDs match up against cubes

200 gigaton turbolasers will make short work of Borg cubes.

changelings

Changelings can be detected by Imperial sensors and defeated with blasters.

biogenic weapons

They are nothing new to the Empire. And besides the Imperial Stormtroopers are immune due to sealed armoured suits.

transphasic trops

They only work against Borg cubes.

The Voth from Voyager:origins could also be an interesting factor, they were able to transport the entire ship into their docking bay and power down its computers!

Which is irrelevant.

More advanced then SW computers, think how long it took Falcon's navcomp to calculate the course out of tatoonie system, ST ships make warp jumps in seconds

Strawman. Hyperspace jumps require far more calculations than entering warp speed.

Not to mention their advanced invisibility

CGT sensors can detect cloaked ships.

and transwarp techs

Hyperdrive is faster than transwarp.

As a side note I challenge anyone to provide an example from SW of better engineering tech than seen in the Dysione shell from TNG Relics

The Federation did not build the dyson sphere so this is irrelevant. As a matter of effect the Empire could build a dysonsphere given that SW galaxy has built artificial planets, death stars and the centerpoint station.

know the Federation did not make it, but they could learn from it.

Proof they actualy learned from it ?

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-06-23 01:54am

transphasic trops

Lets assume for a minute that Transphasic torps could actually get through an ISD's shields: that still won't do the Feddies much good. An ISD's hull can withstand hits from it's own guns. Transphasic torps would barely scratch it's armor. On top of that, it's unlikely the Feddie ship would survive long enough to get any shots off, not when even an ISD's medium turbolasers have many times the firepower necessary to kill any Feddie ship with one shot.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-06-23 01:57am

What about the worldcraft?

While I admit the novel was rather boring, the fact remains, the Empire had a few of these 'worldcrafts'. They were essentially planets with large bunkers and cities, and hyperdrive engines attached capable of propelling the entire PLANET through hyperspace, and retaining the atmosphere and protecting the planet from radiation bombardment.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2004-06-23 09:54am

Kuja wrote:Damnit, you beat me to the punch. Yeah, Kuat has a Dyson Sphere. It's not a solid one like the one in ST, (no doubt because the Kuati actually want people to enter their system) but I have no doubt that if they really wanted to, they could throw a solid one together.

I don't think so. Think of the difference between several trillions space stations and a km-thick 150 million km sphere

. Unless every single one of them is a Centerpoint or Death Star sized monster

...

BTW, I should perhaps mention that in French, "Pine" is a slang term for "cock"

.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2004-06-23 09:54am

The Nomad wrote:I don't think so. Think of the difference between several trillions space stations and a km-thick 150 million km sphere . Unless every single one of them is a Centerpoint or Death Star sized monster ...

Upon further examination, screw this part.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-06-23 11:14am

Pine Tree wrote:Everyone is comparing the entire star wars galaxy to a tiny segment of the Trek one! If you want a fair fight it should be galaxy vs. galaxy!

Pine Tree, are you on a quest to invoke every single stupid Trekkie cliche argument ever devised? You've yet to come up with anything even remotely original. Please take some time to actually read the main Stardestroyer.net site and look for something that hasn't already been addressed before shooting off your mouth anymore, eh?

Trekdestroyer · Post by **Trekdestroyer** » 2004-06-23 11:34am

I foresee a new entry for the Hate Mail page...or have I officialy lost my mind?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-06-23 11:35am

Oh, boo-fucking-hoo. Why are we even entertaining this moron, when he doesn't even fucking reply to his thread?

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