Enterprise E at Geonosis

[Metrion Cascade]

Okay...IIRC, there were no shields or kiloton-range weapons in Ep. 2 at the battle of Geonosis. So...let's say the E-E is hired by Yoda to help out the clone army. What effect would it have had on the battle, if engaging from the altitude of those proto-Star Destroyers we saw?

Let's assume it will only be engaged by the forces we saw fighting the Clonetroopers, no ships in orbit or anything.

[Crayz9000]

Let's assume it will only be engaged by the forces we saw fighting the Clonetroopers, no ships in orbit or anything.

Uh... the droid army opens fire on it and is surprised when it crashes?

[Metrion Cascade]

Let's assume it will only be engaged by the forces we saw fighting the Clonetroopers, no ships in orbit or anything.

Uh... the droid army opens fire on it and is surprised when it crashes?

Your evidence that the droid army's weapons even have that range, much less firepower?

[Crayz9000]

Your evidence that the droid army's weapons even have that range, much less firepower?

Well, how low is the Enterprise going? As low as the Acclamators? Or as low as the LAATs?

We know from the movie that the droids could hit the LAATs, as evidenced by the ones that crashed periodically. I don't know what the droids considered the Acclamators, but probably decided that they were either a) out of range, or b) out of their class.

Anyway, if there are any weapons on the various Confederation ships parked around the surface of Geonosis, then the big E is certainly screwed if they decide to make a target out of it on their way up. If there aren't, or the E is protected by virtue of having Acclamators all around it, then while it probably isn't in much danger, about the only damage it could cause is by playing its phasers around the droid formations. It would then run the risk of friendly fire against LAATs, which were whizzing all over the battlefield.

In short, I think it would probably do all of jack and shit at the battle of Geonosis. Probably out of range of the droids, and there's too much risk of friendly fire for it to do much...

[Metrion Cascade]

Your evidence that the droid army's weapons even have that range, much less firepower?

Well, how low is the Enterprise going? As low as the Acclamators? Or as low as the LAATs?

The Acclamators. It's way too big to try flying with the LAATs.

We know from the movie that the droids could hit the LAATs, as evidenced by the ones that crashed periodically. I don't know what the droids considered the Acclamators, but probably decided that they were either a) out of range, or b) out of their class.

Anyway, if there are any weapons on the various Confederation ships parked around the surface of Geonosis, then the big E is certainly screwed if they decide to make a target out of it on their way up. If there aren't, or the E is protected by virtue of having Acclamators all around it, then while it probably isn't in much danger, about the only damage it could cause is by playing its phasers around the droid formations. It would then run the risk of friendly fire against LAATs, which were whizzing all over the battlefield.

In short, I think it would probably do all of jack and shit at the battle of Geonosis. Probably out of range of the droids, and there's too much risk of friendly fire for it to do much...

Um...the starships were being destroyed by beam weapons nowhere near as powerful as the E-E's phasers. Smaller ships were being taken out by missiles with the yield of a stick of dynamite.

[Crayz9000]

Um...the starships were being destroyed by beam weapons nowhere near as powerful as the E-E's phasers. Smaller ships were being taken out by missiles with the yield of a stick of dynamite.

You're telling me that the heavy artillery the clonetroopers deployed were dreadfully low-powereed, and that the LAATs were getting shot down with sticks of dynamite? Uh... right... the missiles that were being fired were shaped-charge missiles if I recall the ICS right. I don't remember the firepower figures on the artillery, but judging by observed effects, they had to be about as powerful as one beam off the E-E's array...

I know I was probably overestimating by saying that the droids could harm the E-E (for some reason I thought it'd be flying lower, the droids didn't have anything that could reach up to the Acclamators anyway), but... uh...?

In regards to friendly fire, I meant the E-E might inflict casualties on the clonetrooper forces in the LAATs,, since they were going all over the place. The phasers certainly could make a mess of the droid army, and so could the photorps if there wasn't a collateral damage problem.

[Sarevok]

The Enterprise-E cant enter atmosphere. It would have to stay in low orbit at lowest. From that altitude it can safely phaser droids without any danger from ground fire.

[Metrion Cascade]

Um...the starships were being destroyed by beam weapons nowhere near as powerful as the E-E's phasers. Smaller ships were being taken out by missiles with the yield of a stick of dynamite.

You're telling me that the heavy artillery the clonetroopers deployed were dreadfully low-powereed, and that the LAATs were getting shot down with sticks of dynamite? Uh... right... the missiles that were being fired were shaped-charge missiles if I recall the ICS right. I don't remember the firepower figures on the artillery, but judging by observed effects, they had to be about as powerful as one beam off the E-E's array...

The E-E's weapons cause larger explosions even against shielded targets in space. And the effects from the LAATs being destroyed speak for themselves. None of the explosions on Geonosis were in the kiloton range.

I know I was probably overestimating by saying that the droids could harm the E-E (for some reason I thought it'd be flying lower, the droids didn't have anything that could reach up to the Acclamators anyway), but... uh...?

In regards to friendly fire, I meant the E-E might inflict casualties on the clonetrooper forces in the LAATs,, since they were going all over the place. The phasers certainly could make a mess of the droid army, and so could the photorps if there wasn't a collateral damage problem.

There might not be. Photorps are variable yield, and we've seen them used against targets in atmosphere without collateral damage. And if the E-E is high enough, its beams will come down well over the LAATs' heads.

[Metrion Cascade]

The Enterprise-E cant enter atmosphere. It would have to stay in low orbit at lowest. From that altitude it can safely phaser droids without any danger from ground fire.

Your evidence? In "First Contact" it was at such a low altitude when it opened the return vortex that Lily Sloane could see it and the vortex from the ground. And we've seen Voyager land multiple times and do battle in atmosphere.

[Crayz9000]

The E-E's weapons cause larger explosions even against shielded targets in space. And the effects from the LAATs being destroyed speak for themselves. None of the explosions on Geonosis were in the kiloton range.

The shaped charges we use against modern-day tanks don't make very big or pretty explosions either. That's because they don't obliterate the tank; they focus their power in a small cone, making it that much more potent, and punch through the armor.

Big explosions aren't all that count.

There might not be. Photorps are variable yield, and we've seen them used against targets in atmosphere without collateral damage. And if the E-E is high enough, its beams will come down well over the LAATs' heads.

What I was talking about is that the phaser beams will be going right in the general vicinity of the LAATs, and there's the chance that one of them would fly into a beam. Which would Not Be A Good Thing.

[Metrion Cascade]

The E-E's weapons cause larger explosions even against shielded targets in space. And the effects from the LAATs being destroyed speak for themselves. None of the explosions on Geonosis were in the kiloton range.

The shaped charges we use against modern-day tanks don't make very big or pretty explosions either. That's because they don't obliterate the tank; they focus their power in a small cone, making it that much more potent, and punch through the armor.

Big explosions aren't all that count.

But surely there's a limit to how much of the explosive force they'll hide from view. A tank that receives a kiloton of kinetic energy even unidirectionally should fly apart (and away from the explosion) at speeds proportional to that. None of the ships or mecha destroyed at Geonosis did.

There might not be. Photorps are variable yield, and we've seen them used against targets in atmosphere without collateral damage. And if the E-E is high enough, its beams will come down well over the LAATs' heads.

What I was talking about is that the phaser beams will be going right in the general vicinity of the LAATs, and there's the chance that one of them would fly into a beam. Which would Not Be A Good Thing.

Yes, unless the ships are being hit from above and the E-E isn't targeting anything well below the LAATs' altitude. That and the E-E can track the LAATs' courses to avoid them as it fires.

[omegaLancer]

Okay...IIRC, there were no shields or kiloton-range weapons in Ep. 2 at the battle of Geonosis. So...let's say the E-E is hired by Yoda to help out the clone army. What effect would it have had on the battle, if engaging from the altitude of those proto-Star Destroyers we saw?

Let's assume it will only be engaged by the forces we saw fighting the Clonetroopers, no ships in orbit or anything.

Wrong according to the AOTC ICS the Acclamators were targeted and hit by fusion missiles that simply sorched their neutronium cladded Hulls so we must assume the enterprise would draw the same Attention.

[Darth Wong]

Metrion, you're a moron. WMD-yield weapons can't be used near a civilian city, and the E-E would have been engaged in orbit by separatist starships. Its pitiful weaponry compared to an Acclamator means that it would have been destroyed in space.

[Ghost Rider]

Okay...IIRC, there were no shields or kiloton-range weapons in Ep. 2 at the battle of Geonosis. So...let's say the E-E is hired by Yoda to help out the clone army. What effect would it have had on the battle, if engaging from the altitude of those proto-Star Destroyers we saw?

It would another artillery piece akin to the SPHTA.

Let's assume it will only be engaged by the forces we saw fighting the Clonetroopers, no ships in orbit or anything.

Right, because without such a clause, it quickly becomes a target and an easily destroyed one. It helps not to add in parameters to up one side to show that without such it becomes pointless.

[Darth Wong]

But surely there's a limit to how much of the explosive force they'll hide from view. A tank that receives a kiloton of kinetic energy even unidirectionally should fly apart (and away from the explosion) at speeds proportional to that. None of the ships or mecha destroyed at Geonosis did.

Maybe because they would logically not be targeted by such weapons. The huge 700m wide spherical coreships, on the other hand, were a different story. Just the act of one of those goddamned things falling was a multi-kiloton event. Buy a fucking calculator.

[Sarevok]

Um...the starships were being destroyed by beam weapons nowhere near as powerful as the E-E's phasers. Smaller ships were being taken out by missiles with the yield of a stick of dynamite.

The starships were targeted by minimum of kiloton level weapons. Anything less would not hurt SW starship armour. There was no nuclear yield fireball since the weapons were focused.

[Sarevok]

There might not be. Photorps are variable yield, and we've seen them used against targets in atmosphere without collateral damage. And if the E-E is high enough, its beams will come down well over the LAATs' heads.

By your logic photon torpedoes have dynamite level yield as shown by the explosion of the Borg Sphere torpedoes in First Contact. Since the Borg were tryint to kill Cochrane and destroy the Phoenix they must have set their torpedoes to maximum yield.

[Praxis]

Two scenarios:

1) The E-E can enter atmosphere.
The E-E flys through the droid army, firing rapid low power phaser bursts and tearing up their lines. One of the core ships fires one or two turbolaser blasts, blows half the ship apart, and the E-E comes crashing down and explodes. Unfortunately due to the nature of antimatter, the explosion is big enough that it wipes out both armies, and all the jedi, including Yoda and Dooku and everything within a hundred kilometers.

2) The E-E can NOT enter atmosphere.
The E-E gets nuked by the TradeFed Battleships when the core sections reattach. The first one it attacks blows it right out of the sky. If the Republic gets lucky, the droid army gets hit by a few falling peices.

[Sarevok]

The Enterprise-E cant enter atmosphere. It would have to stay in low orbit at lowest. From that altitude it can safely phaser droids without any danger from ground fire.

Your evidence? In "First Contact" it was at such a low altitude when it opened the return vortex that Lily Sloane could see it and the vortex from the ground. And we've seen Voyager land multiple times and do battle in atmosphere.

I am not sure if Sovereigns can enter atmosphere. There is no visual evidence that supports this. Sovereigns are a lot bigger than the Intrepids.

[General Zod]

The Enterprise-E cant enter atmosphere. It would have to stay in low orbit at lowest. From that altitude it can safely phaser droids without any danger from ground fire.

Your evidence? In "First Contact" it was at such a low altitude when it opened the return vortex that Lily Sloane could see it and the vortex from the ground. And we've seen Voyager land multiple times and do battle in atmosphere.

it's been stated on screen that Voyager was designed specifically for planetary landings and limited atmospheric flight. Where has it ever been shown or stated that the Enterprise E could handle sustained atmospheric flight for anymore than a brief duration?

[Jon]

The same argument works in it's favour. Where has it been stated it cannot?

[General Zod]

The same argument works in it's favour. Where has it been stated it cannot?

burden of proof fallacy. either provide evidence that it has the capability or we assume that it can't as it's never been shown, demonstrated, or even hinted at.

[Techno_Union]

Um...the starships were being destroyed by beam weapons nowhere near as powerful as the E-E's phasers. Smaller ships were being taken out by missiles with the yield of a stick of dynamite.

Just to give some proof for the SPHA-Ts, in the Essential Guide it tells us that the SPHA-Ts use a focusing dish which creates "a devastatting turbolaser." This is basically what was used in the Death Star except on a MUCH larger scale. So you claiming it to not be in the KT levels is just plain out stupid since it probably passes KT levels.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Um...the starships were being destroyed by beam weapons nowhere near as powerful as the E-E's phasers. Smaller ships were being taken out by missiles with the yield of a stick of dynamite.

Some important quotes regarding SPHA-Ts.

The prolonged blast stream of this turbolaser design necessitated a gargantuan reactor core. The cannon's power and support equipment requirements are so robust that it prevented its use aboard large starships.

Weapon:
Heavy turbolaser cannon, 12 antipersonnel blaster cannons

[Kamakazie Sith]

The same argument works in it's favour. Where has it been stated it cannot?

You can't ask someone to prove a negative.

It's like saying prove that god doesn't exist.

*That's suppose to be Star Wars DatA*bank*