Prime's death was the sweetest of all!

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-26 09:20pm

I bet this thread is hell for dial-up peoples...

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-10-26 09:53pm

VF5SS wrote:You know its a funny thing, the hardcore Transfans are always worshiping the old show and telling you about how mature it was. Here BW comes along with actual maturity and they can't even see it. Hell of a fandom.

I now. For the queen bitch of them all, go here and look at some of her "Con-quest essays" on Beast Wars.

The amount of fucking idiocy is enough to make a guy want to start a civil war within the fandom...hint hint....

I've actually written a litte pieceon the similarities between the transfundies (VF's name for the nazi g1 fans) and children.

P.S. Dial up works just fine for me in this thread Verilon. The threads that are real bitch are the various type of pic post threads.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-10-26 09:54pm

PPS, I still have to do some editing as you can see.....but anyways, if any you have anything that you've written that criticiszes transfundies, then by all means PM it to me.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-26 11:17pm

Shadow WarChief wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:.

Concession accepted.. megatron didn't keep them alive reason 1 is gone.

What the hell are you talking about? Megatron never killed Starscream despite the fact that every other episode he made at least one attempt to gain control. Only when he became Galvatron in the movie did he gain the momentary intellectual boost to do something. But that's not MEGAtron now is it...

Depends on who you ask.... Anyway, Yes starscream is megatrons major mistake.. really stupid writing.. 80s for you. BUT, we were talking about megatron letting the autobots live when in fact he never did.

Darth_Shinji wrote:.and so you blame megatron for SHOCKWAVE'S idoicy? They guy was asleep for 4 million years and you blame him for shockwave's...what? What did he did that was so fucking stupid? You don't even give a clear reason to why this was a stupid move.

Where the hell does Shockwave come into this? It was Megatron's command decision to go out searching for energon, not shockwave. It was Megatron's idiocy. And I explained very clearly why this move was idiotic: If you have enough energy to last you for the next 4 million years, you don't need to find new resources. You're fine. It's idicoy to send your best warriors to look for it during a war![/quote] You never did watch the first season did you? The autobots left first because they were staving for energy. Megatron followed them to finish prime off and gather the energon the autobots were looking for.. and it was prob sockwave that saved cybertron while megatron was asleep. The earth decipticons even doubted cybertron still existed. Both sides needed that energy to have any chance of winning... it was stated.

Darth_Shinji wrote:.Of course if I was you I would call him a fucking idiot for letting dinobot live though the assanation atteampt..even though it was not any circumstances he could control..

[Q]Irrelevant. Megatron's goal was to extricate the traitor from his command and he succeeded. While Dinobot's death would certainly have been preferable, it was not the main goal. If G1 Megatron had actually tried to get rid of Starscream it wouldn't be so bad. But what does he do? Absolutely nothing and it gets him sucking on vacuum in the year 2005[/Q] actually he did do something he shot starscream and starscream begged for his life..he still should of done it but those writters...

Darth_Shinji wrote:.Could he? I've never seen these numbers in the original series I've always saw the transformers as having a very small population by modern day earth. And if the decepticons had more people off-screen the autobots surly did too.

Wrong and Wrong. During the movie, we see dozens, if not hundreds of seperate decepticons taking flight to combat Unicron in high orbit. And in an episode whose name escapes for the moment, the female autobots revealed that they were the lone autobot prescene on cybertron. The female autobots number less than 10.

In the movie.... both sides had more transformers.... of course the aotubots also built two moons, and long assemble lines of weapons, and a huge city on earth. Both sides had subtainaly increases in the movie NOT the original series (I actually meant season) But yes... starscream is a very stupid mistake. He is the major one okay?

[Qoute]Compare this with the numbers of decepticons seen in the movie and you see that the Autobots were woefully outnumbered.[/qoute]

Darth_Shinji wrote:.Look above. So far you blame megs for stuff he couldn't control.

What? I blame him for stuff for which he was directly responsible.

He was directly responsible for Starscream's continued existance despite the fact that he should have been killed for insubordination at least. It would have been acceptable if he had actually tried to get rid of the traitor, but he didn't even raise a signifigant finger to him.

The result of this decision is that the autobots got re-awakened and started the great war. [/quote] Yes.. I conceed starscream. However, starscream ddn't attack megatron till after the aotubots were reawakened, and he couldn't of knowen for sure that he woked them up. know lets look at your other points.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that lead the poorly planned attack on autobot city, and although he possessed every advantage, he lost the battle.[/qoute] How? his plan was pretty good... of course if you are refering to that website recently posted.. LoL. guy only had one point that made sense.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that didn't kill the autobots when he had a chance.
When? cetainly not the begining...

three of your examples I don't have so I'll look up and get back to you about.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that caused him to call a reteat after getting tossed in mud during the "Utlimate Doom"
There was no mud in Ultimate doom... you wouldn't happen to be talken about the faom that was threatening to "permantly damage thier circuitry"? Are you advocating that getting his troops and himself out of basicaly slow acting poison, idiotcy?

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that he didn't raid a several car dealerships and double the size of his army overnight as he did with the stunticons
I haven't seen this one either but they were adding transformers way before the stunticons... so why couldn't he convert every vechile on the planet? Resources apperently.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that he never actually had a plan except for "Kill Optimus Prime" And that took him several million years. So let's see. At this rate he should conquer the universe in about ohhhh.....NEVER.
Now I know you haven't watched the series lately... Megtron was mainly after getting energon and going home to take over the universe. True he never finished the aotubots.. but all of this can be said for BW megatron. and also g1 megatron was ASLEEP for 4 million years...not activly fighting.

[qoute]It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that caused his treacherous subordinate to toss him out into a vacuum and left for dead.[/qoute] It was his mistake to keep starscream around..

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy which caused him to let the human go-between between the autobots and humanity actually LIVE.
When?

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that caused him to LOOSE THE WAR.
So it was totally his fault? Nope... first off the wars we not finished when he was destroied. Second, he got very close to winning the war and only primes strenght finaly gave the autobots the chance to win. Also if starscream hadn't betrayied him he would of claimed victory.

Besides at least he had a chance to win... he wasn't destinied to help fulfill the total oppisite of all his schemes....

To I really need to list more?

Go ahead.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-26 11:25pm

Oh... so you are the one who made that article?... good. Please post it again and I'll be happy to debate it with you.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-26 11:40pm

See I like them both but lets get this staight.

Yes G1 megatron made mistakes... he was supposed to... same thing with BW megatron. Thing to keep in mind here is that villains in fiction almost always lose, the fun is in character of the villian and how smart they actaully would be in a r/l situation.

Lets face facts... BOTH would of won there respective series hundreds of times over. Hell, the problem is finding a badguy who wouldn't win there series if not for bad writting.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-26 11:52pm

Oh no! Not RAKSHA! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGG!!!

Glad I never tangled with her. Just Lord Starscream from Seibertron.com's BBS and Shena the uber fundie.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-10-26 11:56pm

VF5SS wrote:Oh no! Not RAKSHA! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGG!!!

Glad I never tangled with her. Just Lord Starscream from Seibertron.com's BBS and Shena the uber fundie.

Is she cute?

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-26 11:57pm

Darth_Shinji wrote:See I like them both but lets get this staight.

Thing to keep in mind here is that villains in fiction almost always lose, the fun is in character of the villian and how smart they actaully would be in a r/l situation.

Bullshit! Even if they have to lose in the end you can at least have them seem like a powerful villian. Its far better to create the feeling of an foe with so much power that the protagonist can barely hang on. All versions of G1 Megs were just the standard 80's bad guy. All huff anf puff with a one dimensional personality. You'd have to rewrite his character to get anything from him. He's so damn stale, that's why I used Overlord and Deathsaurus in my fanfics...

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-26 11:58pm

RayCav of ASVS wrote:
VF5SS wrote:Oh no! Not RAKSHA! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGG!!!

Glad I never tangled with her. Just Lord Starscream from Seibertron.com's BBS and Shena the uber fundie.
Is she cute?

I wouldn't bother, I'm pretty sure she fingers herself to Soundwave

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-27 12:03am

Aw man that was a great article, Chief

One of these days I gotta do an essay for the Lexicon called "When did we forget our childhood?" or something of that nature. The sad thing is about these transfundies is that I bet none of them ever played with a TF toy. I've had a Powermaster Optimus Pime since I was two! I can certainly tell anyone about what Transformers really is... TOYS!

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-27 12:12am

VF5SS wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:See I like them both but lets get this staight.

Thing to keep in mind here is that villains in fiction almost always lose, the fun is in character of the villian and how smart they actaully would be in a r/l situation.

Bullshit! Even if they have to lose in the end you can at least have them seem like a powerful villian. Its far better to create the feeling of an foe with so much power that the protagonist can barely hang on. All versions of G1 Megs were just the standard 80's bad guy. All huff anf puff with a one dimensional personality. You'd have to rewrite his character to get anything from him. He's so damn stale, that's why I used Overlord and Deathsaurus in my fanfics...

But... he was a powerful villain that had so much power the aotubits couls hardly hold on... you must be thing of the new amada megs... He often had the autobots on the ropes.

Have you seen the japanese versions? I've always wanted to see that stuff... not pokeformers or armada.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-27 12:18am

In the cartoon he spends half of the time either missing his targets or doing no damage whatsoever! The Autobots sent him into retreat in every friggen episode! Twice he couldn't beat Prime one-on-one and both times he was cheating! And then there's the griffin... the big blue griffin...

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-10-27 12:20am

VF5SS wrote:I wouldn't bother, I'm pretty sure she fingers herself to Soundwave

You don't have any pics of that, I gather?

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-27 12:20am

Yes I have seen the Japanese stuff. Despite its funny little silly moments (since its aimed at a younger audience than US G1 was) its had some great stories. For one thing, they all had continuing stories!

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-27 12:22am

XaLEv wrote:
VF5SS wrote:I wouldn't bother, I'm pretty sure she fingers herself to Soundwave
You don't have any pics of that, I gather?

...err why? I'm not too hopeful that she's some kind of beauty with an attitude... I mean she's a Klingon fan. Gotta be wary of that.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-27 12:22am

VF5SS wrote:In the cartoon he spends half of the time either missing his targets or doing no damage whatsoever! The Autobots sent him into retreat in every friggen episode! Twice he couldn't beat Prime one-on-one and both times he was cheating! And then there's the griffin... the big blue griffin...

They ALL were doing that! Name one transformer that didn't miss and cause no damage what so ever. And yes twice he couldn't beat prime... yet he woned in other fights with prime and outsmarted the guy in most episodes.

And what is this blue griffin?

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-27 12:24am

Also who many other 80's villains can claimed that they forced thier nemisis to cause untold suffing and cayticlisams on the planet they were dedicated to protecting? That was priceless.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-10-27 12:25am

VF5SS wrote:...err why? I'm not too hopeful that she's some kind of beauty with an attitude... I mean she's a Klingon fan. Gotta be wary of that.

Eh, curiosity.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-27 12:27am

Darth_Shinji wrote: They ALL were doing that! Name one transformer that didn't miss and cause no damage what so ever. And yes twice he couldn't beat prime... yet he woned in other fights with prime and outsmarted the guy in most episodes.

And what is this blue griffin?

One Transformer that didn't miss and caused damage? METAL HAWK! Of course he's the leader of the Pretender in Chojin Masterforce...

Oh yes, he manages to outsmart Prime... who is also an idiot. Even without the shitty writing Megs is still an idiot. Any way you slice it Megatron is a horrible character. Oh and about the Griffin its in Aerial Assault. He makes the thing in a third world country along with jet drones he creates using jet parts which are smuggled in cars... Superion knocks it out the sky with one kick.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-27 12:28am

Darth_Shinji wrote:Also who many other 80's villains can claimed that they forced thier nemisis to cause untold suffing and cayticlisams on the planet they were dedicated to protecting? That was priceless.

Yeah the multi part episodes were good, but that's it.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-27 12:29am

XaLEv wrote: Eh, curiosity.

Creepy...

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-10-27 12:30am

VF5SS wrote:
XaLEv wrote: Eh, curiosity.
Creepy...

Werd.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-27 12:31am

Hell I bet any of the Decepticon jet toys make great dildos

I kid I kid....

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-10-27 12:35am

Darth_Shinji wrote: Anyway, Yes starscream is megatrons major mistake.. really stupid writing.. 80s for you. BUT, we were talking about megatron letting the autobots live when in fact he never did.

When's the last time you watched "More than meets the eye"?

The decepticons get revived while the autobots do not. Once all of the decepticons are repaired, what does the ol' Slag-sucker do? He orders his troops to march AWAY from his crippled enemies. A signifigant portion of the autobot army is literally lying before him, de-activated and helpless.

He ordered his army to march several hundred meters in the opposite direction!

Let's look at what he could have done:

-scavange the arc, and actually take the supplies which they were looking for.
-killed the autobots. All of them. He could have killed them all. He could have sent every last slag-sucking one of them to the Pit and conquered this pathetic dirt ball. But he didn't! His excuse? "They're not going anwhere. *walks off* Muhahaha!!"

Now really, how did he EVER become leader?

"Hydo ho there! I'm Megatron. I'm going to take my army to look for resources during a war. When I actually get the chance to scuttle my enemy's flag ship for parts, I walk away and don't exploit this opportunity. Not only that, but I don't actually kill the enemy when I have a chance. I'm an evil genious. Muhahhahah"

Darth_Shinji wrote: You never did watch the first season did you? The autobots left first because they were staving for energy.

Yet the female autobots were able to hold off the decepticons on cybertron for 4 million years. If you have enough energy to last 4 million years, you don't have an energy shortage.

Darth_Shinji wrote: Megatron followed them to finish prime off and gather the energon the autobots were looking for....

Which he didn't actually need because cybertron operated perfectly wfor 4 million years. And please please plase "to finish off Prime"? He could have vaporized Optimus Prime and the entire autobot army. He didn't.

Darth_Shinji wrote: and it was prob sockwave that saved cybertron while megatron was asleep. The earth decipticons even doubted cybertron still existed. Both sides needed that energy to have any chance of winning... it was stated.

And disproven by visual evidence that Cybertron did just fine for 4 million years.

Darth_Shinji wrote:actually he did do something he shot starscream and starscream begged for his life..he still should of done it but those writters...

Ah yes memories...the first time starscream begged for his life. If his little beating of Starscream had actually accomplished something, then I really wouldn't care. But his little slap on the hand did nothing. Starscream betrayed every other episode. His attempt at discipline in MTMTE was an abject failure.

If I just had 1 IQ point for every fuck up of G1 Megatron I could actually do what he couldn't and conquer this dust ball..

Darth_Shinji wrote:In the movie.... both sides had more transformers....

Each side had more former's but the decepticons had DOZEN'S MORE!

The autobots had the following additions:

Blurr
Ultra Magnus
Arcee
Hot Rod
Kup (who isn't actually an addition considering he seems to have been around since the beginning of the great war.
Springer
Blaster

7 additions.

Now for the decepticon additions

The dozens of non-descript transformers seen in the taking off to fight unicron.

Both decepticon and autobot production rates have been shown to be less than stellar in the series.

The autobots could have created their seven additions during the 21 year gap between season 2 and the movie.

But there's not a snowball's chance in hell that the decepticons could have made dozens of non-descripts we see in the movie. The only possible explanation is that those decepticons were already there on cybertron during the great war...

meaning that he could have called the down to earth to help in the fighting

This is further supported by the fact that in MTMTE p1, we see a Starscream colored jet which isn't starscream (voice is indicative of this).

Darth_Shinji wrote: of course the aotubots also built two moons,

proof that the moons were not already there? There's nothing to support that in the opening scrawl of the movie. It doens't say that the autobots BUILT the two moons, it just said that they were using them as bases.

Darth_Shinji wrote: and long assemble lines of weapons,

which did jack didly shit when they actually needed them to defend Autobot City

Darth_Shinji wrote:and a huge city on earth.

which was poorly defended by an aging veteran, a hot shot kid, an aging old kook, some full-titted toaster, an Optimus Prime wanna be, a sugar high small bot, a DJ and a 9 year old boy.

Darth_Shinji wrote:Yes.. I conceed starscream.

concession accepted.

Darth_Shinji wrote:However, starscream didn't attack megatron till after the aotubots were reawakened, and he couldn't have known for sure that he woke them up.

Would you mind explaining that again? I don't quite get your meaning.
Now lets look at your other points.

Darth_Shinji wrote:How? his plan was pretty good...

His plan was foiled by a 9 year old child.

Darth_Shinji wrote: of course if you are refering to that website recently posted.. LoL. guy only had one point that made sense.

and this point is what exactly?

There was no mud in Ultimate doom...

I'm probably wrong about it being the ultimate doom, but I do know for a fact that he told the entire decepticon army to retreat after getting tossed in mud.

Darth_Shinji wrote:Are you advocating that getting his troops and himself out of basicaly slow acting poison, idiotcy?

I'm saying that no knowing that something as mundane as a autobot sprinkler would have defeated his army is idiocy.

Compare it to what happened during the recent theatre crisis in moscow.

The russian spec ops go in, and the sprinkler's turn on and the team commander orders the retreat because of the sprinklers. It's idiocy.

And if indeed the autobot sprinkler's are poisonous, then who ever designed the ark is a fucking idiot for having necessary safety precautions be fatal.

Darth_Shinji wrote:I haven't seen this one either but they were adding transformers way before the stunticons... so why couldn't he convert every vechile on the planet? Resources apperently

Ok let me get this straight.

He has enough resources to fuel an army.
He has enough resources to operate a base.
He has enough resources to launch massive poorly planned assaults week after week.
He has enough resources to keep starscream alive.
He has enough resources to keep inventing all kinds of neat little gizmos that could make his army invincible

Yet you're saying that he couldn't have cut back, even a little, on gadgets which he never uses, a traitor not worth the energy put into him, or to minimize the useless assaults on the autobots to even make one more soldier which we have seen him to have the ability to do?

Darth_Shinji wrote:Now I know you haven't watched the series lately...

To my sanity's great delight.

Darth_Shinji wrote:Megtron was mainly after getting energon...

...so that he could launch assaults and try to kill Optimus Prime. That's what he does EVERY week. Steal energy then attack the autobot base and try to kill Optimus Prime.

Darth_Shinji wrote:and going home to take over the universe...

... which is exactly what I addressed. It takes him an absurdly long amoung of time to kill anybody. So at that rate he should NEVER conquer the universe. yet he continues to use the same flawed strategy..

Darth_Shinji wrote:True he never finished the aotubots.. but all of this can be said for BW megatron.

Nope. He conquered cybertron, filled it with his vehicon drones and BECAME Cybertron and killed every being on cybertron except himself.

He WON the Beast Wars.

Darth_Shinji wrote:When?

The entire series. Spike and Sparkplug witwicky were always at the Autobot's sides, just BEGGING to be shot. As far as I know Megatron never even aimed his cannon at them.

Darth_Shinji wrote:So it was totally his fault?

Yes

The war could have ended in 1984 with but a word from him. His treacherous sub-ordinate's continued existance was detrimental to the war effort. His poorly planned assault on Autobot City resulted in signifigant losses for his forces.

Darth_Shinji wrote: Nope... first off the wars we not finished when he was destroied.

Irrelevant. It was his idiocy that caused the decepticons to suffer great losses despite the fact that he could have cleaned house. He should have WON the battle of autobot city and thereby have won the war. But he lost that battle and set the decepticons up for defeat.

Just because Hitler killed himself before the allies took over Berlin doesn't mean he didn't lose.

Darth_Shinji wrote:second, he got very close to winning the war and only primes strenght finaly gave the autobots the chance to win.

So you're saying that

Hot Rod,
Kup,
Arcee,
Ultra Magnus,
Blurr,
Blaster + tapes
and the dinobots

could have defeated

Devestator (who completely ass rapes the dinobot's)
Starscream,
Thundercracker
Skywarp
Astrotrain,
Blitzwing,
SoundWave + tapes,
Dirge,
Ramjet,
Thrust,
the 3 insecticons

The decepticon's could have done WONDER'S with this army...which Megatron sqaundered.

coud Also if starscream hadn't betrayied him he would of claimed victory.

But he did betray him now didn't he. And why is that? Because Megatron let him live!