Split from TIE vs Shuttle

[tjhairball]

Not reading his site is also a way to prevent brain damage.
But who cares. Arroding to his latest news, he won't update the site anymore anyway.

Not reading a site is a very good way to get entirely mistaken impressions about what is written there. A quick pop over to factcheck finds the descriptions in this thread not entirely accurate...

Suffice it to say that - with regard to photon torpedos, I find it apt to quote Mike Wong here, who as owner of this site shouldn't have any problems with my referencing him:

Photon torpedoes and quantum torpedoes both release energy equal to large nuclear fusion weapons.

Current fusion weapons actually produced and detonated range in size from “baby nukes” of 200-300 KT range to the 50 MT Soviet “small model” version of the Tsar Bomba (full version, which was never detonated in any test, was rated at a theoretical 100 MT). Discussions within the United States military weapons specialists has at times centered on the possibilities of producing 100-1000 MT fusion bombs. The first fusion bomb ever detonated, MIKE, was 11 megatons.

A “large nuclear fusion bomb” may thus be understood to be in the range of tens of megatons; it is also understood, generally, that it is possible to fire with a smaller yield should the situation call for it.

Were I designing an antimatter warhead for a torpedo the size of a large coffin, with the industrial backing of a nation that produces large quantities of antimatter, I would probably use quite a bit more than that for maximum yield torpedos - common sense dictates that far more than a few ounces of functional warhead could be engineered into a package capable of carrying a dead body, after all.

With direct regard to the topic, there are several questions I have:

First, shuttle or runabout? What era and model? These vary wildly in size, shields, armament, speed, etc, and make for very important differences in the comparison.

Second, where is the evidence of TIE shields? I’m somewhat familiar with TIEs, and it was my impression that (a) all the regular TIEs (commonly designated fighters, bombers, or interceptors) blew up when hit in movies and (b) the various novels, games, etc indicate that TIE fighters, TIE bombers, and TIE interceptors are unshielded, although the advanced TIE (Vader’s personal craft, unique in the movies) and the TIE defender (not seen in any of the movies, but present in certain Star Wars “future” novels) are listed (at times) as having shields.

Third... shuttles and runabouts are engineered to completely different roles than TIE fighters. So on what bases are they to be compared? Simple combat utility? Cost efficiencies? Overall utility? Use training requirements?

EDIT: From Here

[tjhairball]

(I.e., read from the above that claiming a yield of less than ten MT or so is pretty silly.)

[Praxis]

TIE fighters are super fast, and have no shields to make them lightweight. They would run circles around the slow (in comparison) runabouts (watch DS9 to see, and the runabouts have better maneuverability than the shuttles) and would EASILY dodge the torpedoes- the runabout was able to dodge photons from a maquis raider, 5 of them.

So the torpedoes would be missing wildly. The phasers perhaps could hit, IF the shuttle could put the TIE in its forward arc (we've seen the shuttles fire forward and somewhat underneath them...never behind or the sides). The TIE would circle around behind the shuttle, blast at it, and blow it apart in a few shots (first two or three burst to take down the shields and the next shot blows into the cabin and kills the pilot).


So, in a head to head run, with both approaching each other, the shuttle will win simply because the TIE will not have the maneuverability advantage and the shuttle will have light shields and survive the first hit. In a real dogfight though, the TIE will run rings around the shuttle and nuke it.

[NecronLord]

Second, where is the evidence of TIE shields? I’m somewhat familiar with TIEs, and it was my impression that (a) all the regular TIEs (commonly designated fighters, bombers, or interceptors) blew up when hit in movies and (b) the various novels, games, etc indicate that TIE fighters, TIE bombers, and TIE interceptors are unshielded, although the advanced TIE (Vader’s personal craft, unique in the movies) and the TIE defender (not seen in any of the movies, but present in certain Star Wars “future” novels) are listed (at times) as having shields.

TIE shields aren't generally accepted, but their is IIRC evidence to suggest that they do exist, specifically, 'laser' bolts exploding in ANH without actually hitting them. Certainly to achieve the speeds they can (in some cases) they almost certainly have some form of shielding, even if it's not rated against military grade weapons.

Oh, and on a side note for TJ here, post more to Chains of Pride (examine the sig)!

[Praxis]

I'm fairly certain TIEs do not have shields.
The falcon took out Darth Vader's escort with a single shot...Every direct hit instantly killed fighters...and EVERY SINGLE NOVEL says they don't have shields.

And these are the canon novels BTW. Plus theres the ICS, which has been declared canon.

[NecronLord]

I'm fairly certain TIEs do not have shields.
The falcon took out Darth Vader's escort with a single shot...Every direct hit instantly killed fighters...and EVERY SINGLE NOVEL says they don't have shields.

And these are the canon novels BTW. Plus theres the ICS, which has been declared canon.

Direct hits to X-wings killed them in single shots too...

[Praxis]

But
1) They had shields on double front, so the rear was unprotected for a portion of the battle
2) we saw luke's shields flare over his engines...

[Ghost Rider]

But
1) They had shields on double front, so the rear was unprotected for a portion of the battle
2) we saw luke's shields flare over his engines...

Necron also refers to RoTJ...inside the DS2 superstructure.

[Praxis]

You'd think that their shields would already be a bit weak considering they just emerged from the biggest battle in the entire Civil War (at that time) and had been chased by TIEs the whole way down...

[Ghost Rider]

You'd think that their shields would already be a bit weak considering they just emerged from the biggest battle in the entire Civil War (at that time) and had been chased by TIEs the whole way down...

They were also blasted that way during the battle of Endor.

A Y-Wing gets vaped as well as an A-Wing in similar manner.

[Praxis]

We don't know what happened earlier in the battle...

Three times in Sacrifice of Angels, for example, I saw a Miranda class vessel die on the FIRST HIT IT TOOK, or take serious hull damage. Never saw a shield flash.

Does that mean ST ships don't have shields? No.

[Ghost Rider]

We don't know what happened earlier in the battle...

Three times in Sacrifice of Angels, for example, I saw a Miranda class vessel die on the FIRST HIT IT TOOK, or take serious hull damage. Never saw a shield flash.

Does that mean ST ships don't have shields? No.

But the point is we have seen shield flashes from both TIE in ANH and in X-Wings, and both have been destroyed in a single salvo.

Thus saying they die in one proves no shields doesn't hold water given that unless you can show that X-Wings have always lasted beyond one salvo, and extenuating circumstances can also be extended to TIEs just as easily.

[Praxis]

I've never seen shield flashes from TIEs though.
And theres the novels, which count as semi canon. since we're unsure, we go with them, which means TIEs don't have shields, except Darth Vader's.

It's a possibility that Darth Vader had his escorts fly modified TIEs with shields though...or a few TIEs in ROTJ had shields. But not the average tie.

[Darth Yoshi]

There are shield flashes in the Death Star escape sequence, I think.

[Ghost Rider]

I've never seen shield flashes from TIEs though.
And theres the novels, which count as semi canon. since we're unsure, we go with them, which means TIEs don't have shields, except Darth Vader's.

One of the few shield flashes is when the Falcon is firing upon a TIE...Han's final shots are hitting something underneath that TIE.

It's a possibility that Darth Vader had his escorts fly modified TIEs with shields though...or a few TIEs in ROTJ had shields. But not the average tie.

The bit is where to draw the distinction in the movies because most of the movies had TIEs in specialized areas.

In the books I can see them taking out the generators when the Empire is in retreat but during the movies it makes no sense given the facilities and fleets they were within.

[YT300000]

I've never seen shield flashes from TIEs though.

[Haze Gray]

TIE fighters have particle shields, just very weak ones. Probably designed for stopping micrometiorites, but they were overwhelmed by a larger asteroid in TESB.

[Praxis]

Interesting...wonder if it was just early empire TIEs when they could afford it.

I can imagine when the Empire was going downhill the need for a cheap fighter without shields...

Well, you've given me some interesting info. Thanks!