Enterprise E at Geonosis

[Praxis]

I'm pretty sure, though, that the E-E can NOT land...Voyager was specially designed to, which suggests most fed ships cannot, and if you look at the design, it would be very bad to land.

I highly doubt it's designed for atmosphere- fed ships don't have antigrav repulsors, so cannot hover, and the engines are only in the back, so it'd have to fight gravity.

Notice that the only Fed ship (discounting shuttles and fighters) we've seen in atmosphere flying NORMALLY was Voyager? Of course, the E-D went in atmosphere once to avoid a cloaked probe and flush it out, but it was buffetting and rocking like crazy...

I think only small ships are designed for atmospheric flight.

[Slartibartfast]

The same argument works in it's favour. Where has it been stated it cannot?

It's never been stated that an Abrahams Battle Tank cannot make the sun go nova.

[Metrion Cascade]

Metrion, you're a moron. WMD-yield weapons can't be used near a civilian city, and the E-E would have been engaged in orbit by separatist starships. Its pitiful weaponry compared to an Acclamator means that it would have been destroyed in space.

The hypothetical assumes it's already arrived. Maybe something to do with Acclamators escorting it?

And I never suggested using any of the weapons at full power. I specifically referred to events where they were used at lower yields in atmosphere without collateral damage.

[Metrion Cascade]

But surely there's a limit to how much of the explosive force they'll hide from view. A tank that receives a kiloton of kinetic energy even unidirectionally should fly apart (and away from the explosion) at speeds proportional to that. None of the ships or mecha destroyed at Geonosis did.

Maybe because they would logically not be targeted by such weapons. The huge 700m wide spherical coreships, on the other hand, were a different story. Just the act of one of those goddamned things falling was a multi-kiloton event. Buy a fucking calculator.

Red herring. We're talking about the weapons, not the crashes caused by them. The coreships weren't destroyed by multi-kiloton weapons.

[Metrion Cascade]

There might not be. Photorps are variable yield, and we've seen them used against targets in atmosphere without collateral damage. And if the E-E is high enough, its beams will come down well over the LAATs' heads.

By your logic photon torpedoes have dynamite level yield as shown by the explosion of the Borg Sphere torpedoes in First Contact. Since the Borg were tryint to kill Cochrane and destroy the Phoenix they must have set their torpedoes to maximum yield.

We've seen entire apparently undamaged starships obliterated in a single shot by Borg weapons. Obviously the ones on the sphere were weaker or damaged. Your evidence that those were torpedoes as opposed to energy weapons? And the Borg sphere was probably damaged by its travel back in time (not to mention being a huge part of a Borg Cube that had spent the last few days getting hammered apart).

[Metrion Cascade]

Um...the starships were being destroyed by beam weapons nowhere near as powerful as the E-E's phasers. Smaller ships were being taken out by missiles with the yield of a stick of dynamite.

Just to give some proof for the SPHA-Ts, in the Essential Guide it tells us that the SPHA-Ts use a focusing dish which creates "a devastatting turbolaser." This is basically what was used in the Death Star except on a MUCH larger scale. So you claiming it to not be in the KT levels is just plain out stupid since it probably passes KT levels.

LMAO...They work on the same principles, so contrary to onscreen events they must be equally powerful.

*insert shot of hand phaser destroying a Borg cube*

You're funny.

[Metrion Cascade]

I'm pretty sure, though, that the E-E can NOT land...Voyager was specially designed to, which suggests most fed ships cannot, and if you look at the design, it would be very bad to land.

I highly doubt it's designed for atmosphere- fed ships don't have antigrav repulsors, so cannot hover, and the engines are only in the back, so it'd have to fight gravity.

We've seen antigravs used all over Star Trek. Gurneys, exocomps, cargo pallets. And it's specifically mentioned that Voyager used antigravs because the landing struts couldn't support its weight (and weren't anywhere near its center of gravity).

Notice that the only Fed ship (discounting shuttles and fighters) we've seen in atmosphere flying NORMALLY was Voyager? Of course, the E-D went in atmosphere once to avoid a cloaked probe and flush it out, but it was buffetting and rocking like crazy...

I think only small ships are designed for atmospheric flight.

Voyager's not a whole lot smaller than the E-E. Maybe a third its size.

[Ghost Rider]

But surely there's a limit to how much of the explosive force they'll hide from view. A tank that receives a kiloton of kinetic energy even unidirectionally should fly apart (and away from the explosion) at speeds proportional to that. None of the ships or mecha destroyed at Geonosis did.

Maybe because they would logically not be targeted by such weapons. The huge 700m wide spherical coreships, on the other hand, were a different story. Just the act of one of those goddamned things falling was a multi-kiloton event. Buy a fucking calculator.

Red herring. We're talking about the weapons, not the crashes caused by them. The coreships weren't destroyed by multi-kiloton weapons.

Right, because when only thing taking them down were Turbolaser which range in the MT...means thus must not be Multi KT weaponry.

Glad you back your words up with proof.

[Ghost Rider]

Um...the starships were being destroyed by beam weapons nowhere near as powerful as the E-E's phasers. Smaller ships were being taken out by missiles with the yield of a stick of dynamite.

Just to give some proof for the SPHA-Ts, in the Essential Guide it tells us that the SPHA-Ts use a focusing dish which creates "a devastatting turbolaser." This is basically what was used in the Death Star except on a MUCH larger scale. So you claiming it to not be in the KT levels is just plain out stupid since it probably passes KT levels.

LMAO...They work on the same principles, so contrary to onscreen events they must be equally powerful.

*insert shot of hand phaser destroying a Borg cube*

You're funny.

Nice that scaling and you aren't close friends.

You do understand it's you to show that a gun that outdoes the AetherSprite personal weapon(which rate as 1 KT...go check out the ICS AoTC) is obviously not KT weaponry.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Metrion, sweet, in oder to penetrate the armor of the Trade Fed ship, they SPHTA would have to be multi-gigaton...

[Metrion Cascade]

Metrion, sweet, in oder to penetrate the armor of the Trade Fed ship, they SPHTA would have to be multi-gigaton...

In atmosphere, with zero collateral damage or radiation. Sure.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Metrion, sweet, in oder to penetrate the armor of the Trade Fed ship, they SPHTA would have to be multi-gigaton...

In atmosphere, with zero collateral damage or radiation. Sure.

It is not a nuclear weapon. No radiation.

They have had thousands of years to learn how to direct energy weapons so they can do horrible damage to small trgets without the problem of collateral damage.

[Techno_Union]

Um...the starships were being destroyed by beam weapons nowhere near as powerful as the E-E's phasers. Smaller ships were being taken out by missiles with the yield of a stick of dynamite.

Just to give some proof for the SPHA-Ts, in the Essential Guide it tells us that the SPHA-Ts use a focusing dish which creates "a devastatting turbolaser." This is basically what was used in the Death Star except on a MUCH larger scale. So you claiming it to not be in the KT levels is just plain out stupid since it probably passes KT levels.

LMAO...They work on the same principles, so contrary to onscreen events they must be equally powerful.

*insert shot of hand phaser destroying a Borg cube*

You're funny.

Are you really this dense or are you just trying to be funny . . . seriously?

[Metrion Cascade]

Just to give some proof for the SPHA-Ts, in the Essential Guide it tells us that the SPHA-Ts use a focusing dish which creates "a devastatting turbolaser." This is basically what was used in the Death Star except on a MUCH larger scale. So you claiming it to not be in the KT levels is just plain out stupid since it probably passes KT levels.

LMAO...They work on the same principles, so contrary to onscreen events they must be equally powerful.

*insert shot of hand phaser destroying a Borg cube*

You're funny.

Are you really this dense or are you just trying to be funny . . . seriously?

Yes, I am trying to be funny. You propose that because something works on the same principles as a weapon with a given yield, that therefore means they can't be far less powerful. Obviously they can be, and apparently you agree. Concession accepted.

[Ghost Rider]

Metrion, sweet, in oder to penetrate the armor of the Trade Fed ship, they SPHTA would have to be multi-gigaton...

In atmosphere, with zero collateral damage or radiation. Sure.

You do understand it's burden of proof for you to show this massive fallout of radiation that you so claim.

Because as it stand they do Multi MT and all you have is "Nu-UH...because I say SO!!!"

[Metrion Cascade]

Metrion, sweet, in oder to penetrate the armor of the Trade Fed ship, they SPHTA would have to be multi-gigaton...

In atmosphere, with zero collateral damage or radiation. Sure.

You do understand it's burden of proof for you to show this massive fallout of radiation that you so claim.

Because as it stand they do Multi MT and all you have is "Nu-UH...because I say SO!!!"

The radiation isn't essential to my point. But as I understand it turbolasers do have an EM component?

With or without radiation, nobody has demonstrated any kiloton-range explosions on Geonosis. No heating of the atmosphere on par with that caused by Little Boy, or parts being thrown more than a few meters when a target was destroyed. If the ICS says otherwise, it's contradicting onscreen events.

[Ghost Rider]

In atmosphere, with zero collateral damage or radiation. Sure.

You do understand it's burden of proof for you to show this massive fallout of radiation that you so claim.

Because as it stand they do Multi MT and all you have is "Nu-UH...because I say SO!!!"

The radiation isn't essential to my point. But as I understand it turbolasers do have an EM component?

With or without radiation, nobody has demonstrated any kiloton-range explosions on Geonosis. No heating of the atmosphere on par with that caused by Little Boy, or parts being thrown more than a few meters when a target was destroyed. If the ICS says otherwise, it's contradicting onscreen events.

So let's get this straight.

Because a TL does not show the effects of nuclear weapon...it can't have multi MT explosions because why again?

Is it a bomb?

Is it a multi directional explosive force?

Does it have any similar characteristics of said weapon?

So because you are basing your ENTIRE supposition on what a BOMB does, this must mean every discharge of weaponry must be similar.

That's why grenades and guns of similar levels do the exact same effect on the enviroment.

[Metrion Cascade]

You do understand it's burden of proof for you to show this massive fallout of radiation that you so claim.

Because as it stand they do Multi MT and all you have is "Nu-UH...because I say SO!!!"

The radiation isn't essential to my point. But as I understand it turbolasers do have an EM component?

With or without radiation, nobody has demonstrated any kiloton-range explosions on Geonosis. No heating of the atmosphere on par with that caused by Little Boy, or parts being thrown more than a few meters when a target was destroyed. If the ICS says otherwise, it's contradicting onscreen events.

So let's get this straight.

Because a TL does not show the effects of nuclear weapon...it can't have multi MT explosions because why again?

Is it a bomb?

Is it a multi directional explosive force?

Does it have any similar characteristics of said weapon?

So because you are basing your ENTIRE supposition on what a BOMB does, this must mean every discharge of weaponry must be similar.

That's why grenades and guns of similar levels do the exact same effect on the enviroment.

The energy still interacts with the atmosphere on the way to its target. And it can't stay omnidirectional on contact. And I notice you ignored the debris not flying all over the place.

[Metrion Cascade]

The energy still interacts with the atmosphere on the way to its target. And it can't stay omnidirectional on contact. And I notice you ignored the debris not flying all over the place.

stay UNIdirectional*

[Ghost Rider]

The radiation isn't essential to my point. But as I understand it turbolasers do have an EM component?

With or without radiation, nobody has demonstrated any kiloton-range explosions on Geonosis. No heating of the atmosphere on par with that caused by Little Boy, or parts being thrown more than a few meters when a target was destroyed. If the ICS says otherwise, it's contradicting onscreen events.

So let's get this straight.

Because a TL does not show the effects of nuclear weapon...it can't have multi MT explosions because why again?

Is it a bomb?

Is it a multi directional explosive force?

Does it have any similar characteristics of said weapon?

So because you are basing your ENTIRE supposition on what a BOMB does, this must mean every discharge of weaponry must be similar.

That's why grenades and guns of similar levels do the exact same effect on the enviroment.

The energy still interacts with the atmosphere on the way to its target. And it can't stay omnidirectional on contact. And I notice you ignored the debris not flying all over the place.

Glad you have picture showing that you have this uncontrivable proof as well.

Literally you are the one making the supposition and claiming as it's truth but no calculations against what is known.

Just your words that it is such.

I'm glad such things like math aren't needed for your arguments but given what you're arguing you had better provide some before this becomes nothing more then post padding.

[Crown]

READ THE FUCKING FAQ THREAD IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT FORUM, OR I WILL GET PISSED!

[Metrion Cascade]

Watch the movie. Not one of the LAATs or tanks or starships sent debris flying even twice their own length away from themselves when destroyed.

[Ghost Rider]

Watch the movie. Not one of the LAATs or tanks or starships sent debris flying even twice their own length away from themselves when destroyed.

Do the math or all you're doing is what Darkstar does...using visuals with no proof either ya or nay.

[Metrion Cascade]

I have no numbers to work with on LAAT or tank mass, or what it would take to pull them apart. Do you?

[Ghost Rider]

I have no numbers to work with on LAAT or tank mass, or what it would take to pull them apart. Do you?

Not doing your work since you are in the one is disagreement simply by visualization without any math calculations of any sort.

Your burden is to show that these guns do not even come close to the firepower needed to destroy a coreship, which is rated far beyond mere KT range(watch TPM) and would require easily into Multi MT to low GT range by that alone...unless you would like to say that given the Naboo craft can do KT shots.

It's your burden to show these guns are in the range your propose.

If you can't show the proof otherwise, don't make the argument.