Enterprise E at Geonosis

[Metrion Cascade]

I have no numbers to work with on LAAT or tank mass, or what it would take to pull them apart. Do you?

Not doing your work since you are in the one is disagreement simply by visualization without any math calculations of any sort.

Your burden is to show that these guns do not even come close to the firepower needed to destroy a coreship, which is rated far beyond mere KT range(watch TPM) and would require easily into Multi MT to low GT range by that alone...unless you would like to say that given the Naboo craft can do KT shots.

It's your burden to show these guns are in the range your propose.

If you can't show the proof otherwise, don't make the argument.

In TPM the coreships had their shields up. Not one shot fired at them on Geonosis hit shields.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I have no numbers to work with on LAAT or tank mass, or what it would take to pull them apart. Do you?

Not doing your work since you are in the one is disagreement simply by visualization without any math calculations of any sort.

Your burden is to show that these guns do not even come close to the firepower needed to destroy a coreship, which is rated far beyond mere KT range(watch TPM) and would require easily into Multi MT to low GT range by that alone...unless you would like to say that given the Naboo craft can do KT shots.

It's your burden to show these guns are in the range your propose.

If you can't show the proof otherwise, don't make the argument.

In TPM the coreships had their shields up. Not one shot fired at them on Geonosis hit shields.

And? How is that relevant. Unlike trek ships, SW ships can survive without shields because they have meter after meter of neutronium reinforced photon shielded armor.

It is possible they didnt have time to get the shields up as well.

[Ghost Rider]

Not doing your work since you are in the one is disagreement simply by visualization without any math calculations of any sort.

Your burden is to show that these guns do not even come close to the firepower needed to destroy a coreship, which is rated far beyond mere KT range(watch TPM) and would require easily into Multi MT to low GT range by that alone...unless you would like to say that given the Naboo craft can do KT shots.

It's your burden to show these guns are in the range your propose.

If you can't show the proof otherwise, don't make the argument.

In TPM the coreships had their shields up. Not one shot fired at them on Geonosis hit shields.

And one can ask you can prove the Coreships had no such shielding and were pure hull alone?

You still have yet to show any math towards your claim.

[Crown]

Watch the movie. Not one of the LAATs or tanks or starships sent debris flying even twice their own length away from themselves when destroyed.

Except of course they do -- oops!

[Metrion Cascade]

Not doing your work since you are in the one is disagreement simply by visualization without any math calculations of any sort.

Your burden is to show that these guns do not even come close to the firepower needed to destroy a coreship, which is rated far beyond mere KT range(watch TPM) and would require easily into Multi MT to low GT range by that alone...unless you would like to say that given the Naboo craft can do KT shots.

It's your burden to show these guns are in the range your propose.

If you can't show the proof otherwise, don't make the argument.

In TPM the coreships had their shields up. Not one shot fired at them on Geonosis hit shields.

And? How is that relevant. Unlike trek ships, SW ships can survive without shields because they have meter after meter of neutronium reinforced photon shielded armor.

It is possible they didnt have time to get the shields up as well.

Nobody has demonstrated KT or MT requirements against unshielded coreships.

[Metrion Cascade]

Not doing your work since you are in the one is disagreement simply by visualization without any math calculations of any sort.

Your burden is to show that these guns do not even come close to the firepower needed to destroy a coreship, which is rated far beyond mere KT range(watch TPM) and would require easily into Multi MT to low GT range by that alone...unless you would like to say that given the Naboo craft can do KT shots.

It's your burden to show these guns are in the range your propose.

If you can't show the proof otherwise, don't make the argument.

In TPM the coreships had their shields up. Not one shot fired at them on Geonosis hit shields.

And one can ask you can prove the Coreships had no such shielding and were pure hull alone?

You still have yet to show any math towards your claim.

Because every single shot traveled unhindered until it hit bare metal. There were no explosions of the sort seen when weapons fire hits LAATs or Star Destroyers.

[Metrion Cascade]

Watch the movie. Not one of the LAATs or tanks or starships sent debris flying even twice their own length away from themselves when destroyed.

Except of course they do -- oops!

Now THAT merits a screenshot. I'll wait.

And I'm not saying the Trade Federation or clone army don't have KT or MT range weapons. But they didn't use them on Geonosis (that being monumentally stupid). And (as supported by the Viceroy's statement that the ships had to get back into space), apparently the coreships couldnt' raise their shields on the ground.

[Ghost Rider]

Watch the movie. Not one of the LAATs or tanks or starships sent debris flying even twice their own length away from themselves when destroyed.

Except of course they do -- oops!

Now THAT merits a screenshot. I'll wait.

Look at the Battle of Genosis...if you want specific times

2:01:15-20

And I'm not saying the Trade Federation or clone army don't have KT or MT range weapons. But they didn't use them on Geonosis (that being monumentally stupid).

Glad you backed this up with math

And (as supported by the Viceroy's statement that the ships had to get back into space), apparently the coreships couldnt' raise their shields on the ground.

Yes, because he said the shields weren't at all raised in any capacity in his statement.

[Alyrium Denryle]

hmm... raising capital scale shields while still on the ground... I dont know that could cause problems with their DOCKING LEGS, skin tight shields hon. If they turned those shields on they would have destroyed their own docking equipment.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Watch the movie. Not one of the LAATs or tanks or starships sent debris flying even twice their own length away from themselves when destroyed.

Except of course they do -- oops!

Now THAT merits a screenshot. I'll wait.

And I'm not saying the Trade Federation or clone army don't have KT or MT range weapons. But they didn't use them on Geonosis (that being monumentally stupid). And (as supported by the Viceroy's statement that the ships had to get back into space), apparently the coreships couldnt' raise their shields on the ground.

Also, it doesnt matter whether shields were raised, they were still armored starships, requiring GIGATON level firepower to penetrate. ANergy weapons can be directed, they dont need to have nuke like effects.

[Metrion Cascade]

hmm... raising capital scale shields while still on the ground... I dont know that could cause problems with their DOCKING LEGS, skin tight shields hon. If they turned those shields on they would have destroyed their own docking equipment.

Exactly. Every shot I saw was while the legs were out.

[Metrion Cascade]

Except of course they do -- oops!

Now THAT merits a screenshot. I'll wait.

And I'm not saying the Trade Federation or clone army don't have KT or MT range weapons. But they didn't use them on Geonosis (that being monumentally stupid). And (as supported by the Viceroy's statement that the ships had to get back into space), apparently the coreships couldnt' raise their shields on the ground.

Also, it doesnt matter whether shields were raised, they were still armored starships, requiring GIGATON level firepower to penetrate. ANergy weapons can be directed, they dont need to have nuke like effects.

And NONE of that energy would bounce off or heat the atmosphere?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Now THAT merits a screenshot. I'll wait.

And I'm not saying the Trade Federation or clone army don't have KT or MT range weapons. But they didn't use them on Geonosis (that being monumentally stupid). And (as supported by the Viceroy's statement that the ships had to get back into space), apparently the coreships couldnt' raise their shields on the ground.

Also, it doesnt matter whether shields were raised, they were still armored starships, requiring GIGATON level firepower to penetrate. ANergy weapons can be directed, they dont need to have nuke like effects.

And NONE of that energy would bounce off or heat the atmosphere?

It did, which is why the metal heated up. and vaporized. At the distance they were at however, I dont think they would have felt anything.

[Ghost Rider]

And NONE of that energy would bounce off or heat the atmosphere?

Amazing that they are Direct Energy Transfer weapons.

Also you have through this entire argument provided no proof of non KT blast which has been shown before from other calculation about the amount need to destroy that Walkers the Clone troopers used.

The rifles are doing 8 MJ...if you're even going to contend that the larger weaponry is non KT...provide proof instead of this blithering rhetoric of asking others to do your work and providing proof when they are not the ones making a statement such as "It's not KT because...I say so."

And before you go you haven't done such, you can point to me to the post wherein you outlined your calculations that no explosion on Genosis was multi Kt whatsoever.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Since it seems to have been skipped over by mistake or maybe convience I'll post it again!

The prolonged blast stream of this turbolaser design necessitated a gargantuan reactor core. The cannon's power and support equipment requirements are so robust that it prevented its use aboard large starships.

Weapon:
Heavy turbolaser cannon, 12 antipersonnel blaster cannons

[/quote]

As you can cleary see the SPHA-T is rated as a Heavy Turbo Laser, the same lrating of turbolasers mounted on Imperator class Star Destroyers. That's why they cut through the Trade Federation ships.

[Crown]

Watch the movie. Not one of the LAATs or tanks or starships sent debris flying even twice their own length away from themselves when destroyed.

Except of course they do -- oops!

Now THAT merits a screenshot. I'll wait.

Overlay of two seperate images;



The light shadows show the second image (after explosion) you can clearly see that some parts of the AT-TE have risen higher than the mountain ridge background (more than double its height).

The GIF Animation of the scene, taken every fourth frame: WARNING! 400kb in size!

[Sarevok]

It may be possible that coreships lack shielding because the shield generators are mounted in the primary hull.

[Crown]

It may be possible that coreships lack shielding because the shield generators are mounted in the primary hull.

Absolutely, but as someone else pointed out (Aly I think), the hull material that the core ships were made of would most likely require a shit load of firepower to penetrate.

[Techno_Union]

LMAO...They work on the same principles, so contrary to onscreen events they must be equally powerful.

*insert shot of hand phaser destroying a Borg cube*

You're funny.

Are you really this dense or are you just trying to be funny . . . seriously?

Yes, I am trying to be funny. You propose that because something works on the same principles as a weapon with a given yield, that therefore means they can't be far less powerful. Obviously they can be, and apparently you agree. Concession accepted.

Ok first off, the focusing technology is the only thing the same between the SPHA-T and the DS I, the turbolsaer created and more then likely get close to what the Acclamators can dish out. Second, where did I give this propostition?

[Col. Crackpot]

tthf the SPHA-T's weapons are so powerful, then why ere they not used on Douku's speeder or escorting fighters?

Obi Wan: "Pilot, target that speeder"
SPHA-T Pilot: "I can't. we're out of missiles"

[PainRack]

Some important quotes regarding SPHA-Ts.

The prolonged blast stream of this turbolaser design necessitated a gargantuan reactor core. The cannon's power and support equipment requirements are so robust that it prevented its use aboard large starships.

Weapon:
Heavy turbolaser cannon, 12 antipersonnel blaster cannons

With regards to that quote, that quote certainly cannot mean that the SPHAT power is superior to the heavy guns mounted on the Accalamator. For god sake, its artillery, not a WMD.

I has always taken that to mean that the power and heat requirements of the canon is so huge, that it is unpractical to mount in on starships. Perhaps tactical doctrine states that ground lasers should be of sustained duration, delivering a low energy, high power shots, whereas ship combat lasers require blasts of short duration, high energy, relatively lower power shots.

[Ghost Rider]

tthf the SPHA-T's weapons are so powerful, then why ere they not used on Douku's speeder or escorting fighters?

Obi Wan: "Pilot, target that speeder"
SPHA-T Pilot: "I can't. we're out of missiles"

That's because they were in a LAAT.

The SPHA-T was what Yoda ordered against the Trade Federation ships.

[PainRack]

With regards to that quote, that quote certainly cannot mean that the SPHAT power is superior to the heavy guns mounted on the Accalamator. For god sake, its artillery, not a WMD.

I has always taken that to mean that the power and heat requirements of the canon is so huge, that it is unpractical to mount in on starships. Perhaps tactical doctrine states that ground lasers should be of sustained duration, delivering a low energy, high power shots, whereas ship combat lasers require blasts of short duration, high energy, relatively lower power shots.

Grrr, need to edit.

The shots taken of the Coreship crashing also suggest that the SPHAT guns do not outgun that of the Accalamator, or are of equivalent output to the Heavy Turbolasers of the Rebellion era.

We saw them punch through the armour, melting only a relatively small portion, and that's it. If the shot was indeed >> 200 GT, then shouldn't the resulting reaction be much more violent, with the molten metal being ejected out?

Even if the SPHAT was capable of dealing out 200 GT shots, its also relatively safe to assume that the shot in Genosis wasn't that.

[Kamakazie Sith]

With regards to that quote, that quote certainly cannot mean that the SPHAT power is superior to the heavy guns mounted on the Accalamator. For god sake, its artillery, not a WMD.

I has always taken that to mean that the power and heat requirements of the canon is so huge, that it is unpractical to mount in on starships. Perhaps tactical doctrine states that ground lasers should be of sustained duration, delivering a low energy, high power shots, whereas ship combat lasers require blasts of short duration, high energy, relatively lower power shots.

Grrr, need to edit.

The shots taken of the Coreship crashing also suggest that the SPHAT guns do not outgun that of the Accalamator, or are of equivalent output to the Heavy Turbolasers of the Rebellion era.

We saw them punch through the armour, melting only a relatively small portion, and that's it. If the shot was indeed >> 200 GT, then shouldn't the resulting reaction be much more violent, with the molten metal being ejected out?

Even if the SPHAT was capable of dealing out 200 GT shots, its also relatively safe to assume that the shot in Genosis wasn't that.

So you're suggesting that they went and reclassified what is considered a heavy turbolaser? I guess it could be different for artillery, naval ships, and even planetary defenses.

[Techno_Union]

With regards to that quote, that quote certainly cannot mean that the SPHAT power is superior to the heavy guns mounted on the Accalamator. For god sake, its artillery, not a WMD.

I has always taken that to mean that the power and heat requirements of the canon is so huge, that it is unpractical to mount in on starships. Perhaps tactical doctrine states that ground lasers should be of sustained duration, delivering a low energy, high power shots, whereas ship combat lasers require blasts of short duration, high energy, relatively lower power shots.

Grrr, need to edit.

The shots taken of the Coreship crashing also suggest that the SPHAT guns do not outgun that of the Accalamator, or are of equivalent output to the Heavy Turbolasers of the Rebellion era.

We saw them punch through the armour, melting only a relatively small portion, and that's it. If the shot was indeed >> 200 GT, then shouldn't the resulting reaction be much more violent, with the molten metal being ejected out?

Even if the SPHAT was capable of dealing out 200 GT shots, its also relatively safe to assume that the shot in Genosis wasn't that.

So you're suggesting that they went and reclassified what is considered a heavy turbolaser? I guess it could be different for artillery, naval ships, and even planetary defenses.

Wouldn't it be a "Heavy Turbolaser" of that era?