Lancer Frigate vs Enterprise E

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2004-06-25 01:38am

A Lancer Frigate is in orbit of earth and has destroyed a shuttle, the only ship nearby is the Enterprise E.

So who takes it?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-25 01:48am

This has been done before. The Lancer frigates shields are strong enough to withstand the Enterprises's weapons while it's kiloton level laser cannons can destroy the Enterprise.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-06-25 02:05am

The Lancer won't be able to destroy the E-E too quickly (certainly not the one-shot kill that an ISD would deal to any Feddie ship), due to its very light (Kiloton range) anti-fighter guns, but that doesn't matter: Lancers are well-shielded for ther size to allow them to take at least some punishment from capital ships and fighters, which means the Enterprise will run out of torpedoes long before it gets through the Lancer's shields, while the Lancer can keep pounding away indefinately (not that is has too: the damage from even those light guns will start to add up very quickly).

E-E is well and truly fuxored.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-06-25 02:29am

Well, the E-E's weapons will be more powerful (multi-megaton quantums vs kiloton cannons), but the Lancer will have both more weapons and faster firing weapons and stronger shields... Each laser cannon impact will do about as much damage as a phaser burst, and it'll be getting hit with 20 QUAD hits per second. That will be serious hurt. The E-E will die, though it'll probably do more damage to the Lancer's shields than it'd like.

On the other hand, if it was a Carrack cruiser with the bigger guns...E-E wouldn't last a second

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-06-25 02:38am

Praxis wrote:Well, the E-E's weapons will be more powerful (multi-megaton quantums vs kiloton cannons), but the Lancer will have both more weapons and faster firing weapons and stronger shields...

A Lancer's shields should easily protect against multi-megaton warheads, even if we assume highly concentrated yields.

Each laser cannon impact will do about as much damage as a phaser burst, and it'll be getting hit with 20 QUAD hits per second.

If not more. The quad guns could easily have a much higher rate of fire (Slave-1's guns had a ROF of 20 shots per second.)

That will be serious hurt. The E-E will die, though it'll probably do more damage to the Lancer's shields than it'd like.

A lancer class Frigate was assumed to be "comparable" to Karrde's Wild Karrde, which IIRC mounted 3 capital-grade turbolasers (Karrde was certainly hesitant against facing off against two of them on his own, as well) in TLC. Its quite probable the Lancer would get off without a scratch.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-25 02:51am

On the other hand, if it was a Carrack cruiser with the bigger guns...E-E wouldn't last a second

The Carrack has 20 heavy turbolaser cannons IIRC. The Enterprise would be blasted to atoms by the first volly.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-06-25 03:02am

Connor MacLeod wrote:A lancer class Frigate was assumed to be "comparable" to Karrde's Wild Karrde, which IIRC mounted 3 capital-grade turbolasers (Karrde was certainly hesitant against facing off against two of them on his own, as well) in TLC. Its quite probable the Lancer would get off without a scratch.

Not saying that the Lancer wouldn't take it, but the Wild Karrde, turbolasers or no, was still just an Action IV transport freighter, not a warship. That's really not saying much; the Wild Karrde hardly was likely to have capital grade shielding and armor.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-06-25 03:51am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:A lancer class Frigate was assumed to be "comparable" to Karrde's Wild Karrde, which IIRC mounted 3 capital-grade turbolasers (Karrde was certainly hesitant against facing off against two of them on his own, as well) in TLC. Its quite probable the Lancer would get off without a scratch.
Not saying that the Lancer wouldn't take it, but the Wild Karrde, turbolasers or no, was still just an Action IV transport freighter, not a warship. That's really not saying much; the Wild Karrde hardly was likely to have capital grade shielding and armor.

But that's the point. It wasn't a full fleged warship, but neither is the Lancer precisely. Its a dedicated anti-fighter (maybe antimissile?) platform - it lacks the heavy firepower that a more balanced ship might have (EG, Nebulon-B frigate or Carrack cruiser), but even so its firepower was still sufficient to match a smuggler vessel half its size packing at least several CAPITAL-grade turbolaser weapons and possessed of shielding and armor that was resistant to fighter-grade weaponry. (EGV&V IIRC) That says alot for it.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-06-25 03:52am

evilcat4000 wrote:
On the other hand, if it was a Carrack cruiser with the bigger guns...E-E wouldn't last a second
The Carrack has 20 heavy turbolaser cannons IIRC. The Enterprise would be blasted to atoms by the first volly.

No, it has 10 heavy turbolasers, 20 ion cannons (or laser cannons, depending on the model) and up to 5 tractor beam projectors (plus around 4-5 ties on external racks for scouting purposes, usually.)

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-06-25 11:09am

Ion Cannons WILL destroy a Fed ship. Considering their reliance on forcefields, ion cannon blasts will:

1) Short out the structural integrity fields, making the ship unstable
2) Short out the security forcefields, giving boarding parties an easy time
3) Short out the antimatter containment fields, blowing up the ship

Anyway, back to the lancer. At a kiloton per shot, with 4 shots per weapon (they're quad lasers), multiplied by 20 weapons, = 80 kilotons per second (note that in the SW2ICS, some ships have bigger, 1 megaton laser cannons, so it could be 80 megatons per second).

A volley from the Enterprise will release 4 192 megaton quantums and several photons, probably reaching as much as a gigaton per volley. However it can only fire one volley every couple seconds instead of one per second as the lancer.

The Lancer is approximately equal to the Wild Karrde (with 3 turbolasers!). If the Lancer's weapons are weaker than 3 turbolasers, the only explanation is that the Lancer has rather powerful shields. Which means that if it can survive pounding from 3 TL's (6 gigatons every two seconds, or 3 gigatons per second) it can definitely survive 1 gigaton every once in a while from the E-E.

I think my 80 megaton estimate is probably more likely (otherwise the Wild Karrde wouldn't have had trouble vs the Lancer if it was kilotons), so the Lancer will survive several volleys while chipping away at the E-E, unleashing the equivilant of two to three photon torps per second while surviving every hit with no trouble.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-25 11:56am

Are not quantum torpedoes 128 megatons ?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-06-25 11:59am

evilcat4000 wrote:Are not quantum torpedoes 128 megatons ?

If one assumes

A. That 1.5 Kg or Anti-Matter/Matter is used in a perfectly 100% manner...thus a Photon torpedo does 64 MT.

B. The entire exchange is brought out in a manner of a perfect direction...no omnidirectional blast.

C. That indeed the DS9 manual is right and a Quantum Torpedo is twice as strong.

It relies on these three vvalues to become 128 MT weapon.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-06-25 03:20pm

Praxis wrote:Ion Cannons WILL destroy a Fed ship. Considering their reliance on forcefields, ion cannon blasts will:

1) Short out the structural integrity fields, making the ship unstable
2) Short out the security forcefields, giving boarding parties an easy time
3) Short out the antimatter containment fields, blowing up the ship

To add to that: Contrary to popular belief, Ion cannons do in fact inflict some physical damage to their target: They have been known to cause vessels to break up, and we're talking about Star Wars ships here. Capship-scale ion cannons would probably blow the E-E's hull apart.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-06-25 05:03pm

evilcat4000 wrote:Are not quantum torpedoes 128 megatons ?

No. The TM is NOT canon.

tjhairball · Post by **tjhairball** » 2004-06-25 07:04pm

I'm putting my bets on the E-E. I have my reasons.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-06-25 07:05pm

tjhairball wrote:I'm putting my bets on the E-E. I have my reasons.

So tell us why.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-06-25 07:12pm

tjhairball wrote:I'm putting my bets on the E-E. I have my reasons.

Perhaps you care to actualy make an argument?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-06-25 07:23pm

tjhairball wrote:I'm putting my bets on the E-E. I have my reasons.

We eagerly await them.

tjhairball · Post by **tjhairball** » 2004-06-25 07:48pm

My reasons aren't completely transparent? Dear me, I guess I'll have to explain them eventually.

And I will. My apologies, but I have some other stuff I want to nail down before I go into details, and some serious posting to catch up on back in my home forums. As engaging a place these wee forums and their much smaller counterparts are... well, I can't spend all my time here and there.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-06-25 08:06pm

Translation: I am chickenshit.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-06-25 08:18pm

I think I remember hearing the Lancers could be outfitted with heavier weapons designed to take on cap ships.

Anywho, my bets on the Lancer. They are cool.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-06-26 12:36am

tjhairball wrote:I'm putting my bets on the E-E. I have my reasons.

Please state your reasons instead of making a vague claim.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-06-26 11:11am

Ghost Rider wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:Are not quantum torpedoes 128 megatons ?
If one assumes

A. That 1.5 Kg or Anti-Matter/Matter is used in a perfectly 100% manner...thus a Photon torpedo does 64 MT.

B. The entire exchange is brought out in a manner of a perfect direction...no omnidirectional blast.

C. That indeed the DS9 manual is right and a Quantum Torpedo is twice as strong.

It relies on these three vvalues to become 128 MT weapon.

Actually, I believe the DS9 tech manual said a quantum torp is three times as strong? Or am I mistaken?

I ran calculations once, if you assume the same 74% efficiency as a photon, and divide the number by 2 (being an omnidirectional blast), you get a quantum being 70-something megatons.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-06-26 12:32pm

Has anyone done calcs for a Soveriegn 'alpha strike'?

Cleaned from alfa to alpha

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-06-26 01:03pm

Praxis wrote: Actually, I believe the DS9 tech manual said a quantum torp is three times as strong? Or am I mistaken?

According to the DS9 tech manual, a standard photon has a yield of 18.5 isotons, while a quantonm torpedo has a yield of 52.3 isotons.