US "Friendly Fire" Pilot Won't Face A Court Martia

[Aaron]

CBC

NEW ORLEANS - The U.S. pilot who bombed and killed four Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan struck a deal on Thursday to avoid a court martial.

Maj. Harry Schmidt will now face a non-judicial hearing by his unit's commanding officer, in which the worst outcome could be 30 days of house arrest or a loss of one month's pay of $5,600.

In a court martial, he could have lost his flying privileges, could have been kicked out of the military, and could have faced prison.

His hearing with his commanding general is scheduled for Canada Day.

The mother of one of the Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan says she is saddened by the conclusion of the case.

Cpl. Ainsworth Dyer was 25 when he died in the bombing. His mother Agatha Dyer said on Thursday from her home in Montreal that her heart is broken, and she believes the pilot involved in her son's death should pay.

The other three Canadians who died in the bombing were Sgt. Marc Leger, Pvte. Nathan Smith and Pvte. Richard Green.

Schmidt was facing four counts of dereliction of duty for dropping a laser-guided bomb on Canadian soldiers taking part in night exercises in Afghanistan in April 2002. Four soldiers were killed; eight were wounded.

He accepted an air force offer to face administrative punishment in exchange for the dismissal of all charges, according to a U.S. air force statement on Thursday.

Schmidt's lawyer said the air force had agreed to allow his client to remain employed with the Air National Guard, but not as a pilot.

He said Schmidt – who had a decorated career as a Navy pilot and an instructor at the Navy's "Top Gun" fighter pilot school – did not want to fly for the Air Force anymore.

Schmidt felt he had been "second guessed in a combat situation by people sitting back in the air-conditioned comfort of the Pentagon," the lawyer said.

Schmidt had originally opted for a court martial over a non-judicial hearing, saying he wanted to clear his name.

The air force in June 2003 dropped the initial charges of involuntary manslaughter and aggravated assault – which could have carried sentences of up to 64 years in prison – against Schmidt and his flight leader Maj. William Umbach.

Umbach thereafter quietly agreed to accept a reprimand and retire from the air force.

Schmidt and Umbach, both with the Illinois Air National Guard's 170th Fighter Squadron, believed the enemy was firing at them when they dropped the bomb on members of the then Winnipeg-based Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry.

They were flying near Kandahar Airport in the early morning hours of April 18, 2002, when they detected ground fire. They thought it was directed at them and dropped a 225-kilogram laser-guided bomb, even though they had been ordered to hold their fire.

The soldiers on the ground, who were conducting live fire exercises, were the first Canadians to die in combat since the Korean War.

The bastard kills four men and plea bargins his way out of it. Fucking dumbass should have been nailed to the wall. The man was never in any danger, he was simply to gung-ho. They said they were being fired upon from the ground with small arms fire, well I hate to burst his fucking bubble but they were above the effective range of small arms fire. And they ignored a direct order to hold their fire.

Pardon me if I seem a little heated towards the pilots, I knew one of the men who was killed.

[Montcalm]

If it had been a Canadian pilot who had done the same to American soldier,how high would the chance be for the US asking that he is turned over to them to be tried for murdering Americans.

[Aaron]

If it had been a Canadian pilot who had done the same to American soldier,how high would the chance be for the US asking that he is turned over to them to be tried for murdering Americans.

I think it would be safe to say that the USA would be calling for his head. Or maybe not. The USA considers 10% losses to friendly fire to be acceptable. I'm sure that we'll be hearing from the right-wing crowd here, that he was only doing his job, he had the right to defend himself blah blah blah.

[Stormbringer]

I think it would be safe to say that the USA would be calling for his head. Or maybe not.

It would depend on the circustances. If this case were reversed, yes and justifiably so.

The USA considers 10% losses to friendly fire to be acceptable.

Not acceptable by any means, but unlike a lot of other Western militaries the US isn't willing to pussyfoot around actually fighting a war and carrying out their mission.

I'm sure that we'll be hearing from the right-wing crowd here, that he was only doing his job, he had the right to defend himself blah blah blah.

As a member of the "right wing crowd" I have to say I think he should have been court martialled. If he did what has been alleged (and in all probably did do) then he ought to have been punished to the fullest extent possible.

[Aaron]

It would depend on the circustances. If this case were reversed, yes and justifiably so.

Exactly so why aren't they being court-martialed? This just sends the message that the USA doesn't care about our soldiers lives, even when their assisting their operations.

Not acceptable by any means, but unlike a lot of other Western militaries the US isn't willing to pussyfoot around actually fighting a war and carrying out their mission.

I should have clarified that the USA does not allow friendly fire incidents to affect their ops. And I happen to agree, you shouldn't stop a war because somebody fucked up.

As a member of the "right wing crowd" I have to say I think he should have been court martialled. If he did what has been alleged (and in all probably did do) then he ought to have been punished to the fullest extent possible.

Thanks for your support. I was actually referring to people like Axis Kast who are at the far end of the right spectrum.

[Stormbringer]

Exactly so why aren't they being court-martialed? This just sends the message that the USA doesn't care about our soldiers lives, even when their assisting their operations.

I had no idea why, it's something I'd really like to know. I don't care to offer uninformed speculation at this point.

I should have clarified that the USA does not allow friendly fire incidents to affect their ops. And I happen to agree, you shouldn't stop a war because somebody fucked up.

It goes a bit beyond that. For one thing the rest of the Western Militaries have set up Rules of Engagement that are far more concerned with preventing incidents than, dare I say, fighting the war. And it's such that the US has taken over doing the majority of the non-fixed target attacks, particularly Close Air Support work. One reason, along with the sheer numbers of sorties, that the US tends to have a lot of friendly fire incidents.

Thanks for your support. I was actually referring to people like Axis Kast who are at the far end of the right spectrum.

You're welcome. Though I might point Axis Kast is often at the stupid end of the spectrum more than anything.

[Sarevok]

He should have been court martialed and given a much heavier punishment. This pilot killed four people. Even if it was an accident the fact is people died because of his actions and hence he should receive a heavier punishment.

[Son of the Suns]

The only reason he should recieve any punishment is because he disobeyed orders. If it had not been for that there would be no reason to punish him. The reason he is not recieving a heavier punishment may have to do with the fact that he was in a combat zone and was under what he thought was enemy fire. He may be a gung ho pilot who refused to follow orders and just wanted to push some buttons, but he may also have just been a commanding officier who was looking out for his own and his crew's lives in a situation that whoever radioed him may not have understood. The fact that he wasn't informed in the first place that a group of soldiers in his flight path would be performing a live fire exercise seems suspicious to me. Regardless, you don't know the situation CK, and to say that this is just America showing that they don't care about Canadian lives is bullshit.

[Aaron]

The only reason he should recieve any punishment is because he disobeyed orders. If it had not been for that there would be no reason to punish him. The reason he is not recieving a heavier punishment may have to do with the fact that he was in a combat zone and was under what he thought was enemy fire. He may be a gung ho pilot who refused to follow orders and just wanted to push some buttons, but he may also have just been a commanding officier who was looking out for his own and his crew's lives in a situation that whoever radioed him may not have understood. The fact that he wasn't informed in the first place that a group of soldiers in his flight path would be performing a live fire exercise seems suspicious to me. Regardless, you don't know the situation CK, and to say that this is just America showing that they don't care about Canadian lives is bullshit.

Ahh I knew someone would show up to spout this BS. First of all, the pilot is guilty of Murder, at the very least manslaughter. Thats a crime that will land you in prison on the civilian side of the house for many years. The pilots had been briefed that there were Canadian troops participating in a live fire exercise in their area. And the fact that they were above the effective range of the supposed "enemy" fire doesn't mean anything to you? His crime of not following orders would warrent that he receive a fine or house arrest. But his disobeying orders lead to the death of four men, that is inexcusable.

As a matter of fact I do know the situation, we recieved a briefing on this when it became apperent that several people in my unit knew the men involved. The fact remains that if the situation was reversed and a Canadian pilot had done this then the US would be calling for his head, but because it's Canadian casulities it doesn't matter to the US command. Put yourself in the shoes of a Canadian soldier or the families that lost these men, would you not want the murder to recieve the full punishment of the law?

He may be a gung ho pilot who refused to follow orders and just wanted to push some buttons, but he may also have just been a commanding officier who was looking out for his own and his crew's lives in a situation that whoever radioed him may not have understood.

It doesn't matter whether the CO of these pilots understood the situation or not. In the military you are legally bound to obey lawful orders regardless of whether they put you in harms way or not. You would understand this if you were or had been in the military. In fact the men issuing the orders did know the situation and by disobeying those orders the pilots killed four men, that is manslaughter.

[Son of the Suns]

The pilots had been briefed that there were Canadian troops participating in a live fire exercise in their area.

Why thank you for leaving that out in your original post, since it changes the story completely, dumbass.

And the fact that they were above the effective range of the supposed "enemy" fire doesn't mean anything to you?

Ignoring the fact that the info you left out about them being told about the exercises in the previous post makes this completely moot in this case, if I thought someone was shooting at me I wouldn't wait to see if they were trying to unpack something that could reach me before I responded.

As a matter of fact I do know the situation

Well thanks for posting it now. Obviously blaming America and baiting someone was more important to you than providing all the relevent information.

The fact remains that if the situation was reversed and a Canadian pilot had done this then the US would be calling for his head

In this case I wouldn't blame them, given the circumstances which you so kindly withheld.

but because it's Canadian casulities it doesn't matter to the US command.

Yeah whatever, thanks for making a sweeping generalization which probably doesn't apply to most US commanders.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Canadian soldier or the families that lost these men, would you not want the murder to recieve the full punishment of the law?

Once again, I would expect so, given the circumstances which you withheld.

[Vendetta]

Why thank you for leaving that out in your original post, since it changes the story completely, dumbass.

Do your own damn googling.

If you're going to jump in and shoot your mouth off about a subject, especially a news story, it's good practise to know what the fuck you're talking about. Especially if you then accuse other people of not knowing the situation.

[Son of the Suns]

Why thank you for leaving that out in your original post, since it changes the story completely, dumbass.

Do your own damn googling.

If you're going to jump in and shoot your mouth off about a subject, especially a news story, it's good practise to know what the fuck you're talking about. Especially if you then accuse other people of not knowing the situation.

Considering the severity of punishment is usually based almost entirely on the foreknowledge of the offender, I'd expect it to be posted. The original poster bears the burden of proving that his comments are justified, not me.

[Stormbringer]

He should have been court martialed and given a much heavier punishment. This pilot killed four people.

At the very least the matter should have been decided in a court.

Even if it was an accident the fact is people died because of his actions and hence he should receive a heavier punishment.

Frankly, the idea of punishing people for genuine accidents is ludicrous. War's war and some times people die. Punishing people for accidents is just fool hardy and counter-productive.

[Montcalm]

In an unrelated American pilots story,does anyone have info on the EA-6 Prowler crew that killed 20 person in a cable car in Italy a few years back,were they punished for their wreklessness in playing fly under the wire.

[Aaron]

Frankly, the idea of punishing people for genuine accidents is ludicrous. War's war and some times people die. Punishing people for accidents is just fool hardy and counter-productive.

If he hadn't killed anyone with this stunt then I would agree. He could then be simply fined or reprimanded for disobeying orders. Unfortunatly his actions caused the death of four friendly soldiers and that needs to be addressed.




*FOR SON OF THE SUNS*


My apologies, it was not my intent to bait or draw anyone in. In fact I had not remembered the briefings we got or that the USA pilots knew about the exercises. It was only after I had responded to Montcalm that I remebered these facts. The only excuse that I have is my memory which was damaged in a military training exercise along with the rest of me when I was electrocuted. So once again I apologise, no hard feelings on my end.