What is it with Mecha Series and pissin on the US?

[frigidmagi]

I saw Read or Die, nice ainme! The US President peeing his pants (twice) had me rolling my eyes a little, but worse has been done, who cares?

Question: I've heard that WWII isn't taught in Japanese history classes, expect the Atom Bombing. Can anyone comfirm or deny? I've had a buddy who was working in a Japanese school refuse to straight out answer, instead giving me a speech on cultural tolerence.

Maybe the Japanese were able to point Godzilla at America

Ah, Godzilla, long may you reign... On the other side of the ocean.

[FOG3]

Then there's Silent Service, which was actually very well done. They have the Japanese and America jointly building a special stealth, nuclear powered submarine codenamed the Seabat. Crewed with a Japanese crew declared dead in a accident with a Russian sub that goes rogue.

The flat out audacity of some of the captain's stunts to manage to survive going up against US Navy hardware is rather entertaining in my opinion. Particularly the Mozart concert under the sea. It does seem to bash the US's police of the world approach, but otherwise I don't think there's much to complain about.

[Archaic`]

Question: I've heard that WWII isn't taught in Japanese history classes, expect the Atom Bombing. Can anyone comfirm or deny? I've had a buddy who was working in a Japanese school refuse to straight out answer, instead giving me a speech on cultural tolerence.

WWII is taught, but in a very selective fashion. The Atom Bombing is covered of course, as is the pacific war in the higher grades (minus the war crimes), but you'll never hear about the Korean Occupation or the invasion of China except in university level courses, and even then, it's not necessarily going to be a very detailed analysis.

[Stormbringer]

I've heard that in an episode of Gasaraki, the US invades Japan with
just FOUR mecha, and when we lose, it's considered the end of US
world hegemony.

What the frell is it with these Mecha series creators? Are they trying to
fulfull a deep-seated psychological urge to humble the US of Ay?

We've had a couple of threads on this before; basically, Japan has got this fucked up cultural denial thing going on about WWII; they usually don't even show the US having a military, and when they do, it's either part of the UN or being shredded by mecha.

And of course the fact that it's the mecha wankers (read obessive fanboys) doing the writing doesn't help the general Japanese denial any either.

[SyntaxVorlon]

Gasaraki, while being a wholey contrived, poorly scripted anime did successfully predict the war with Iraq.

Shep, you obviously haven't heard much about the Captain planet, Bhagvad Gita, Yoko Kanno soundtrack fusion that is Earth Maiden Arjuna. I swear one of the character designs was taken DIRECTLY from a Captain Planet villain.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

And of course the fact that it's the mecha wankers (read obessive fanboys) doing the writing doesn't help the general Japanese denial any either.

I'd say it's a rather strong accusation to label every writer on a mecha series to be a "fanboy wanker," personally.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I've heard that in an episode of Gasaraki, the US invades Japan with
just FOUR mecha, and when we lose, it's considered the end of US
world hegemony.

What the frell is it with these Mecha series creators? Are they trying to
fulfull a deep-seated psychological urge to humble the US of Ay?

We've had a couple of threads on this before; basically, Japan has got this fucked up cultural denial thing going on about WWII; they usually don't even show the US having a military, and when they do, it's either part of the UN or being shredded by mecha.

I heard Medal of Honor: Rising Sun was popular in Japan, though.

Crazy Japanese kids killing grandpa.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Question: I've heard that WWII isn't taught in Japanese history classes, expect the Atom Bombing. Can anyone comfirm or deny? I've had a buddy who was working in a Japanese school refuse to straight out answer, instead giving me a speech on cultural tolerence.

WWII is taught, but in a very selective fashion. The Atom Bombing is covered of course, as is the pacific war in the higher grades (minus the war crimes), but you'll never hear about the Korean Occupation or the invasion of China except in university level courses, and even then, it's not necessarily going to be a very detailed analysis.

Still no Rape of Nanking, eh?

[AniThyng]

You have Gasaraki with its stupid antiamericanism, but in Gundam Seed Washington DC was the Terran capital. The situation can't be generalized that they have a single viewpoint.

well...considering that later in the Gundam SEED series the president of neutral ORB comments "that damn Atlantic Federation, always trying to divide the world into allies and enemies" as a Atlantic Fed-led Earth Alliance naval force prepares to assault ORB for the horrible crime of being a neutral Earth nation that refuses to join the Alliance...i'd say it's actually a jab at the whole "you're either with us or against us" thing...

and the Atlantic Federation [capital, washington DC] is not at all pictured in a flattering way, what with the implication that it lets Eurasian allied forces take the brunt of the sacrificial losses earlier in the war...

[AniThyng]

I heard Medal of Honor: Rising Sun was popular in Japan, though.

Crazy Japanese kids killing grandpa.

is that a big deal? don't u guys play games where the Nazi's overrun the good 'ol US of A while liberally slaughtering digital american soldiers? [panzer general II springs to mind]

[SWPIGWANG]

Entainment != sense

Then there's Silent Service, which was actually very well done.

Haha, one seawolf-level nuclear sub defeating 3 aircraft carrier battle groups, plays around US subs like toys and flys to evade depth charges muahahahahahahaha

I'd rather read Zipang. AEGIS vs us WWII fleet via the final countdown pacific time-warping storm muahahahaha. (but bilingual manga == expensive as hell) Its wank, but its much more justified wank :p

they usually don't even show the US having a military, and when they do, it's either part of the UN or being shredded by mecha.

It should be noted that the Japan rarely shows any other country's military as well.

And yeah, the Tanks vs. Mecha in Gasaraki is pretty bad. One of those TA's shrugs off an APFSDS round that hits it in the leg, and the TA's are damn dodging fire from IFV's and MBT's.

At least you don't have mecha cutting up MBTs with swords like so many gundam series.....

The author must have been on copious amounts of crack to think that such a situation was even possible winnable for the Japanese. Especially if he thinks that the Japanese could even hope to invade the continental United States and win...

You should play those KOEI (japanese company) made WWII pacific turn based strategy game. I've actually invaded continental US and won muhahahahahahaha. (note: it says more about the stupidity of the ai than any inherent balance)

Mecha is mechanical fantasy not unlike say, steampunk and there is nothing wrong with that. (and there are steampunk mecha too muhahaha)

And of course the fact that it's the mecha wankers (read obessive fanboys) doing the writing doesn't help the general Japanese denial any either.

What about those wankers that write things like the force, hypermatter, relativity violating FTL or blackhole generating biological organisms?

[SWPIGWANG]

I feel stupid for laughing so much.

[Archaic`]

Question: I've heard that WWII isn't taught in Japanese history classes, expect the Atom Bombing. Can anyone comfirm or deny? I've had a buddy who was working in a Japanese school refuse to straight out answer, instead giving me a speech on cultural tolerence.

WWII is taught, but in a very selective fashion. The Atom Bombing is covered of course, as is the pacific war in the higher grades (minus the war crimes), but you'll never hear about the Korean Occupation or the invasion of China except in university level courses, and even then, it's not necessarily going to be a very detailed analysis.

Still no Rape of Nanking, eh?

Indeed. To the point where much of the current generation of high schoolers and university students aren't even aware that it happened.

[Joe]

What about those wankers that write things like the force, hypermatter, relativity violating FTL or blackhole generating biological organisms?

The thing with hypermatter and FTL is that that stuff is depicted in a civilization that is unimaginably more advanced than our own. The farther away you get from our current level of technology, the easier it becomes to suspend your disbelief. As opposed to mecha, which is just a bad idea that will never make sense, ever, except in possibly very narrow circumstances.

[Ghost Rider]

WWII is taught, but in a very selective fashion. The Atom Bombing is covered of course, as is the pacific war in the higher grades (minus the war crimes), but you'll never hear about the Korean Occupation or the invasion of China except in university level courses, and even then, it's not necessarily going to be a very detailed analysis.

Still no Rape of Nanking, eh?

Indeed. To the point where much of the current generation of high schoolers and university students aren't even aware that it happened.

Actually that is damn frightening.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I feel stupid for laughing so much.

You should. Hang your head in shame, boy.

[Symmetry]

When thinking aobut Japanese nationalism, its always helpful to remember that Japan thinks of itself as a "small-island-trading-nation-precariously-dependent-upon-raw-materials-cut-adrift-in-a-hostile-world." Things make a bit more sense then.

I've heard that in an episode of Gasaraki, the US invades Japan with
just FOUR mecha, and when we lose, it's considered the end of US
world hegemony.

What the frell is it with these Mecha series creators? Are they trying to
fulfull a deep-seated psychological urge to humble the US of Ay?

Yes, I think think thats what they are. In defense of the 4 mech thing, though, that was a commando raid to destory a big computer rather than an invasion. (That fight was also the only time I've ever seen HESH rounds used correctly in a work of fiction).

Now as for this invading Japan with only 4 Mecha crap... The entire 3rd Marine Divison is stationed at Okinawa! There are Air Force, Navy and Army bases up and down the island chain of Japan!

The scenario was that an Evil Cable Controlling the PresidentTM was doing this, and if they used a marine division it might be noticed...

I got tired of that series five minutes into it when one of the mecha shrugs off a big round from a big tank.

5 minutes? That wasn't a tank, it was an armored car firing what sounded like a HMG, so its perfectly reasonable that the armor could resist it.

And yeah, the Tanks vs. Mecha in Gasaraki is pretty bad. One of those TA's shrugs off an APFSDS round that hits it in the leg, and the TA's are damn dodging fire from IFV's and MBT's.

In defense of Gasaraki (again) that was the only really battle. The firing missiles from building roofs tactic used the rest of the time was far, far better than that. Oh, and the barehanded mech vs. mech fight a little later also sucked.

If you want an anti-American anime/manga, check out Appleseed, where during the late 1980s the U.S. breaks into two countries; the Southern half of which reinstitutes segregation on a massive scale and calls itself Imperial Americana, with the Northern half entering into a submissive alliance with the Soviet Union!

Really? Having read the manga through volume 4 and the databook, I really don't remember anything about the northern US being submissive or the southern part segregationist, though its been a while.

Read or Die is great. A single cloned guy destroys the White House in the opening 2 minutes a la Bond villain.

Read or Dream is just as bad.

Shep, you obviously haven't heard much about the Captain planet, Bhagvad Gita, Yoko Kanno soundtrack fusion that is Earth Maiden Arjuna. I swear one of the character designs was taken DIRECTLY from a Captain Planet villain.

I almost saw that for the Yoko Kanno, but then realized I could just get the soundtrack CD, which I did.

[Peregrin Toker]

Shep, you obviously haven't heard much about the Captain planet, Bhagvad Gita, Yoko Kanno soundtrack fusion that is Earth Maiden Arjuna. I swear one of the character designs was taken DIRECTLY from a Captain Planet villain.

Which Captain Planet villain?

[frigidmagi]

While that is scary. I have to ask, how many Americans here were taught about the Trail of Tears in school. Because I wasn't I had to go to the reservation museum to find out about it.

I'm not excusing the omitting of the Rape of Nanking but it's not like the Japanese are the only ones to cover up embaressing things about their past.

[Stormbringer]

And of course the fact that it's the mecha wankers (read obessive fanboys) doing the writing doesn't help the general Japanese denial any either.

I'd say it's a rather strong accusation to label every writer on a mecha series to be a "fanboy wanker," personally.

I meant that to apply to the specific series. *shrug*

But since you raise the issue, the writers that have no problem torturing logic and reason to make mecha work tend to be more than willing to pander to Japanese cultural insecurties.

[Sharp-kun]

e Mecha series creators? Are they trying to
fulfull a deep-seated psychological urge to humble the US of Ay?

The same can be said about US films and other countries. U-57 is an example of this. A nice little historical rewrite, making Americans feel that much more important.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I meant that to apply to the specific series. *shrug*

But since you raise the issue, the writers that have no problem torturing logic and reason to make mecha work tend to be more than willing to pander to Japanese cultural insecurties.

Still, that seems like anothr rather unsupported generalised assumption.

[Stormbringer]

I meant that to apply to the specific series. *shrug*

But since you raise the issue, the writers that have no problem torturing logic and reason to make mecha work tend to be more than willing to pander to Japanese cultural insecurties.

Still, that seems like anothr rather unsupported generalised assumption.

It's a generalization, but it's hardly unsupported.

[Andrew J.]

The scenario was that an Evil Cable Controlling the PresidentTM was doing this, and if they used a marine division it might be noticed...

I just want to make sure, but you do mean "Evil Cabal," right?

[MKSheppard]

U-57 is an example of this. A nice little historical rewrite, making Americans feel that much more important.

I think U-571 was not american made. It was made by a bunch
of Europeans