Keep your nose out of our asses! Says Chirac to Bush...

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2004-06-29 11:04am

From here, during the latest Nato Summit in Turkey.

And for those anti-clickers.

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - President Bush said on Tuesday that Turkey belongs in the European Union and that Europe is "not the exclusive club of a single religion" in what amounted to a rejection of French President Jacques Chirac.
In remarks prepared for delivery at a Istanbul university, Bush refused to back down in the face of Chirac's criticism on Monday that Bush had no business urging the EU to set a date for Turkey to start entry talks into the union.

"America believes that as a European power, Turkey belongs in the European Union," Bush said.

Bush is to use the speech to try to mend relations between Muslims and Americans left tattered relations by the Iraq war.

"We must strengthen the ties and trust and good will between ourselves and the peoples of the Middle East," he said.

Bush held up Turkey as an example of a Muslim democracy and said its entry to the EU would be "a crucial advance in relations between the Muslim world and the West, because you are part of both."

"Including Turkey in the EU would prove that Europe is not the exclusive club of a single religion, and it would expose the 'clash of civilizations' as a passing myth of history," Bush said.

Chirac said on Monday that Bush should not comment on Turkey's EU entry hopes as EU affairs were none of his business.

"If President Bush really said that the way I read it, well, not only did he go too far but he went into a domain which is not his own," Chirac told reporters at the summit.

"It is like me trying to tell the United States how it should manage its relations with Mexico," he added.

Turkey is keen to use the NATO to showcase its credentials as a westward-looking democracy before December, when EU leaders decide if it has met the political criteria to be put on the formal road to EU membership.

Countries such as Germany, Italy and Britain strongly back Ankara's bid, but Chirac's government has expressed wariness about kicking off a formal process to admit the relatively poor country of 70 million people.

© Reuters 2004. All Rights Reserved.

Actually, I agree with Mr. Chirac on this, Turkey still isn't meeting several "goalposts" for membership (starting with its human rights violations), so why should it be allowed to enter just for the sake of "looks good"? Besides, as far as I know, NATO isn't Europe.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-06-29 11:47am

While Bush he sticking his beak where it doesn't belong I see no problem with letting Turkey start negotiations (and then stringing them along for 10-15 more years) if we don't then it may be seen as a rejection which could cause them to backslide.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-06-29 12:07pm

Doesn't most of the Muslim world consider Turkey to be heathen bastards anyway? What's the point of this? To make us look like even bigger egocentric assholes?

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2004-06-29 12:43pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:Doesn't most of the Muslim world consider Turkey to be heathen bastards anyway? What's the point of this? To make us look like even bigger egocentric assholes?

The EU doesn't have as many fundies as the states, but we still have a few influential ones who persist in seeing the EU as a club of Christian-Judaic inspiration. Those will always be against Turkey entering the EU. But they're not a blocking force.

Even some days ago Chiraq said Turkey has an European vocation, and it is true that it has made several political and social reforms to meet EU standards and laws in the last few years. However, they are not complete, as close as a decade ago they still had civil wars in their territory and it's a big country with a huge population living with 1/8 of the average EU pay.

More, while they're not a lot worse than some of the new members, the sheer size of the country makes it very hard to integrate, specially because they will surely start behaving like big dogs as soon as they become members (if we think Poland is bad, just wait for Turkey).

That makes their integration difficult. It will take at least a decade and for the EU to be able to absorb it successfully they will need to enter alone and with the EU in a stable enough condition to start pouring money into the country.

Ah, and I advise Bush not to start a wits match with Chiraq. He may be an asshole, but he's a clever asshole. Bush is just an idiot asshole. Moreover, I'd like to see his opinion if someone suggested incorporating 70 million muslims well below the poverty line in the US of A.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-06-29 01:01pm

from the title i half expected Chirac to threaten George with a fart in his general direction.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2004-06-29 01:06pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:from the title i half expected Chirac to threaten George with a fart in his general direction.

I must admit that would have been cool. My opinion of him would raise somewhat.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-06-29 01:08pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:from the title i half expected Chirac to threaten George with a fart in his general direction.
I must admit that would have been cool. My opinion of him would raise somewhat.

heck, even mine would!

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-06-29 01:12pm

Well, somehow this reminds me of a moronic EU proposal a couple of years back that EU membership be a prerequisite for all new NATO memberships. Naturally, this brain fart didn't get very far.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-06-29 01:43pm

Ok, so Bush is trying to suck up to Turkey. Understandable. But there's gotta be a way to do it that doesn't involve pissing off the rest of Europe. Fucking hell, the State Department must be taking aspirin everytime the man speaks.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-06-29 01:51pm

I'm surprised that the State department hasn't commited sudice in dispair.

Is the EU really any of our business, nope as long has they aren't stormarmming people into joining or being oppressive, I don't see any reason to even say anything about how they should handle their internal working or who they let in or not.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-06-29 02:57pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Ok, so Bush is trying to suck up to Turkey. Understandable. But there's gotta be a way to do it that doesn't involve pissing off the rest of Europe. Fucking hell, the State Department must be taking aspirin everytime the man speaks.

Why suck up to Turkey? Really. Is it simply a matter of keeping them from becoming fanatics like the rest of the Middle-East?

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2004-06-29 05:18pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:Ok, so Bush is trying to suck up to Turkey. Understandable. But there's gotta be a way to do it that doesn't involve pissing off the rest of Europe. Fucking hell, the State Department must be taking aspirin everytime the man speaks.
Why suck up to Turkey? Really. Is it simply a matter of keeping them from becoming fanatics like the rest of the Middle-East?

No, it's just a way to have more elbow room when dealing with them. With Turkey on good terms with the US, the later gains a strong foothold in the Middle East... effectively cutting it in half, now that Iraq is also on the US side. (sort of, naturally...)

Marksist · Post by **Marksist** » 2004-06-29 10:49pm

President Bush said on Tuesday that Turkey belongs in the European Union and that Europe is "not the exclusive club of a single religion"

Europe may not be the exclusive club of a single religion, but if Shrub had his way, the U.S. would. Seems a rather hypocritical statement coming from him.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2004-06-29 11:03pm

Hell even now I'd hardly call europe a "club of a single religion". It's got protestants, catholics in large numbers (most of them alot more liberal than their american counteparts), as well as atheists, muslims and just about every other religion, belief system etc... in smalller numbers.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2004-06-29 11:03pm

Should read protestants and catholics in large numbers

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-06-29 11:56pm

I’d very much like Turkey to join the EU one day it will ultimately be good for Turkey and good for the EU. However they have a way to go on their human rights record (particularly in relation to the Kurds) before we can let them in. One of the many benefits of EU’s strong human rights stance is that it forces prospective members to pay more than lip service to HR. Much of Turkey’s recent progress on this issue eg. Abolishing the death penalty can be attributed to the desire to join the EU.

Bush can fuck off and mind his own business but he is right that we need to put the “Europe is for Christians only” bigots in their place and make it clear to the Turks that they’ll get in one day. Now if Bush could only apply his incites upon the benefits of secularism in the EU and Turkey to the USA…