Female Teacher Caught with 14-Year-Old

[Bob McDob]

When I first saw this thread, the first thing that went through my mind was "Again?"

That about sums up my thoughts on this.

[Rogue 9]

WOW IF I TALK IN ALL CAPS, use Argumentum ad nauseum, and treat my positions as a priori truths, I am right. Heehee!

You're damn straight I'm shouting by now. I have a bunch of perverts telling me that this is okay. I am not happy about it. I wasn't under the impression that we supported pedophilia around here.

[Take a hint, asshole. Maybe if a lot of other Western, developed countries have different rules and aren't burning to the ground you might have to actually justify the law, rather than saying it is correct because some U.S. legislature passed the law.]

I didn't say it was correct because the U.S. legislature passed it. I said that 1.) it is the law in this case because the incident happened in the United States, not Portugal, and 2.) that the vast majority of 14 year olds are incapable of making such decisions in anything even approaching a responsible or considered manner, and therefore 14 should not be considered the age of consent.

Too bad that I'm not a virgin, and the girl I slept with was my long term girlfriend whom I was attached to deeply, and haven't been able to go out with anyone else for almost a year since because of how close I was to her, but hell, that doesn't matter when you're a sad little stuffy traditional virgin with zero actual knowledge of the shit he spouts off on.

And I'm sorry and sympathize, but this kid was hardly in that situation, unless your longtime girlfriend was one of your teachers. I am coming at this from the perspective of a teacher who is professionally outraged that someone in a position similar to my own (but of even greater responsibility, since she undoubtedly had more than my three music students, which only makes it worse) could and would abuse her position to prey on her students.

But that doesn't fit in your preconcieved delusions, so you may dismiss it outright and not quote it in your response in accordance with your modus operandi.

That was uncalled for, son. Because, you see, I am not a heartless bastard like you seem to think; if I was I wouldn't be arguing this.

Nice, that editing out of this:

Well, you contradicted yourself. You said that yeah, its immoral, but its okay/should be ignored for those reasons, which I took to mean that it is less immoral for those reasons, which is false. Seeing that this is false, I then pointed out that it is not the case.

Oh, and get laid, idiot.

How about no, at least not for this reason. I need a hell of a lot more reason than "Oh, I think I need something to do tonight. Might as well go pick up some random girl."

Oops! You're an asshole!

Know what? I'm right, and I don't care how much of an asshole you think I am for it.

People have been skirting the issue by focusing on me, so let's have it. Do you or do you not believe that it is okay for a female teacher to take advantage of her male students like this? If so, do you think that if the genders were reversed that it would be okay? If no, why the inconsistency? If yes, what the hell is wrong with you? Also if yes, would it make a difference if the girl was infertile (something that Poe blustered his way around without answering, I'll note)?

[Illuminatus Primus]

You're damn straight I'm shouting by now. I have a bunch of perverts telling me that this is okay. I am not happy about it. I wasn't under the impression that we supported pedophilia around here.

And I have to deal with a dogmatic kneejerk Christian kid that doesn't fucking get it.

All claims, and ALL CLAIMS are up for debate and critique. Any opinion and position you hold you should be able to logically defend.

If you refuse I feel entitled to call you a fucking idiot.

I didn't say it was correct because the U.S. legislature passed it. I said that 1.) it is the law in this case because the incident happened in the United States, not Portugal,

He knows that asshole. Everyone knows that. In fact I think you're the only asshole hiding behind legalese so he won't have to crawl out of his dogmatic preconception box and debate the moral backbone of the matters discussed. I explained to you quite concisely what the Portuguese law reference meant in terms of the argument at hand, and you completely ignored it like a Darkstar clone or didn't get it, like a moron.

2.) that the vast majority of 14 year olds are incapable of making such decisions in anything even approaching a responsible or considered manner, and therefore 14 should not be considered the age of consent.

Present evidence (not that I personally disagree with you, even though you lashed out against me anyway, in your knee-jerk modus operandi).

And I'm sorry and sympathize, but this kid was hardly in that situation, unless your longtime girlfriend was one of your teachers. I am coming at this from the perspective of a teacher who is professionally outraged that someone in a position similar to my own (but of even greater responsibility, since she undoubtedly had more than my three music students, which only makes it worse) could and would abuse her position to prey on her students.

Nice backpeddle, asshole. In an effort to sound clever before you really knew my personal background (sad I have to tell you my sex life in order to rattle some thought out of that rusty bucket you have for a cranium, but I digress) you said the following:

Translation: I think with my nuts and I can't stand it when someone who uses his brain for its proper function notes that this isn't particularly intelligent.

So it wasn't about the kid, it was about your generalizations of me, Poe, and others who like sex and aren't fucking psychopaths, idiot.

That was uncalled for, son. Because, you see, I am not a heartless bastard like you seem to think; if I was I wouldn't be arguing this.

Oh, I agree. That's why I called you an idiot, not a heartless bastard. Au contraire, you implied that Poe (and me and other by extention) were sociopaths.

Well, you contradicted yourself. You said that yeah, its immoral, but its okay/should be ignored for those reasons, which I took to mean that it is less immoral for those reasons, which is false. Seeing that this is false, I then pointed out that it is not the case.

No, my point was that it was illegal out of social necessities and gender equality, not because the kid was actually a traumatized because anyone with a brain knows he isn't. Its the woman who's mentally sick and due to social inequalities in this situation cannot be allowed to help herself to her students.

How about no, at least not for this reason. I need a hell of a lot more reason than "Oh, I think I need something to do tonight. Might as well go pick up some random girl."

That wasn't why. It was because you're a presumptious fuck who is, in fact, totally clueless and you're also uptight and this pattern is quite annoying to listen to, to say the least.

Know what? I'm right, and I don't care how much of an asshole you think I am for it.

Try showing it with logic, and evidence, rather than simply stating your conclusions and arguments over and over again like a nutter.

People have been skirting the issue by focusing on me, so let's have it. Do you or do you not believe that it is okay for a female teacher to take advantage of her male students like this?

I said no and quoted this twice for your benefit in the last thread from my last post because you evidentally cannot read.

My point was solely that you haven't proved your case despite your screaming, and regardless of my personal opinion on the moral debate, I know because I'm a realist that the kid is not psychologically deranged now, and I would've loved to nail that teacher as a 14 year old boy. Oh oops, have I been politically incorrect?

If so, do you think that if the genders were reversed that it would be okay? If no, why the inconsistency? If yes, what the hell is wrong with you? Also if yes, would it make a difference if the girl was infertile (something that Poe blustered his way around without answering, I'll note)?

I'm not sure if it is ok for even the guy, and even less sure for the girl, which is why I'm betting on the legal and moral safe end for good measure until more hard evidence can be shown. Equality is not an a priori good, and if someone could prove that girls generally cannot healthily engage in sex until an older age than boys, than obviously for simple reasons gender equality doesn't apply her as a blanket. That's a high bar to reach, and personally I know I cannot, so I won't try. Its quite obvious girls and guys look at and treat sex very differently.

[Icehawk]

You're damn straight I'm shouting by now. I have a bunch of perverts telling me that this is okay. I am not happy about it. I wasn't under the impression that we supported pedophilia around here

Sexual relations between highschool teens and adults is NOT pedophilia moron. We've had two threads on this issue before and one of them was just recently.

[Edi]

Rogue 9, why don't you fuck off? IP has clearly outlined why he thinks the actions of the teacher are wrong, and you just ignored him after he clarified his position because you seem to be so fond of the fucking strawman you've been using here. In short, you're an asshole and the proof is there for all to see, in your own words.

I happen to agree that it was wrong and that she shouldn't be allowed in the profession, for the same reasons IP said, but it doesn't have any bearing on the other arguments that have been made here and which you have yet to address.

Edi

[Rogue 9]

And I have to deal with a dogmatic kneejerk Christian kid that doesn't fucking get it.

Oh, I see. It all boils down to "He's a Christian, so he's wrong." Sure. Please, point to where I have cited God as a reason for anything I've said. Until you can, quit pretending that Christianity is the only reason I could have for not liking this damned mess.

He knows that asshole. Everyone knows that.

Then he knew it was irrelevant.

Present evidence (not that I personally disagree with you, even though you lashed out against me anyway, in your knee-jerk modus operandi).

Go hang out with some 14 year olds. You'll have all the evidence you need inside of half an hour. Though I don't know why you're demanding proof of this; it is, after all, a part of your own position.

Nice backpeddle, asshole. In an effort to sound clever before you really knew my personal background (sad I have to tell you my sex life in order to rattle some thought out of that rusty bucket you have for a cranium, but I digress) you said the following:

Well that's what it sounded like. I stand corrected, and I apologize for my assumption.

Oh, I agree. That's why I called you an idiot, not a heartless bastard.

The heartless bastard part was implied in your assertion that I wouldn't care about what you typed and would automatically reject it like a heartless bastard out of some presumed immutable prejudices that you assumed (incorrectly) that I carry; an assumption that I presume you hold because I am a Christian. Can we just drop that now, as it has precisely jack and shit to do with this?

No, my point was that it was illegal out of social necessities and gender equality, not because the kid was actually a traumatized because anyone with a brain knows he isn't. Its the woman who's mentally sick and due to social inequalities in this situation cannot be allowed to help herself to her students.

I never said that the boy was traumatized; you're confusing me with Plekhanov. I'm pissed at the teacher, and have never, not even once, tried to place blame with the student.

That wasn't why. It was because you're a presumptious fuck who is, in fact, totally clueless and you're also uptight and this pattern is quite annoying to listen to, to say the least.

I'm uptight because I object to such abuses of power? Okay, whatever. And no one's making you listen.

Try showing it with logic, and evidence, rather than simply stating your conclusions and arguments over and over again like a nutter.

I really wouldn't have to think I'd have to explain why the abuse of power to take advantage of those you hold power over (for any reason, not just sexually) is wrong. Why was Clinton impeached? Or Nixon? Why do doctors have their medical licenses revoked if they get sexually involved with their patients? Why is this teacher under arrest? Why are Enron and Worldcom executives being taken to task for cooking their books to scam investors? Why is the Catholic Church embroiled in a gigantic scandal over priests taking advantage of those in their care? Why am I having to whack you with a clue by four on this? Corruption. That's all it is, and its wrong no matter the scale, from local mayors taking fifty bucks for a dodgy construction license to teachers soliciting sex from their students to the Teapot Dome scandal or Watergate. Perhaps integrity is too abstract a concept for me to try and prove here, I don't know. I do know that this is corruption in several senses. Let's try a few.

corruption

n 1: lack of integrity or honesty; esp susceptibility to bribery; use of a position of trust for dishonest gain

4: moral perversion; impairment of virtue and moral principles: "the luxury and corruption among the upper classes"; "moral degeneracy followed intellectual degeneration"; "its brothels; its opium parlors; its depravity"

5: destroying someone's honesty or loyalty or moral integrity: "corruption of a minor"

Check, check, and whoa, double check. Fits the bill, and unless you intend to argue that a corrupt system is a good thing, it cannot be allowed to stand.

Rogue 9, why don't you fuck off? IP has clearly outlined why he thinks the actions of the teacher are wrong, and you just ignored him after he clarified his position because you seem to be so fond of the fucking strawman you've been using here. In short, you're an asshole and the proof is there for all to see, in your own words.

I know he's said he thinks the teacher was wrong, which is why I'm having a hard time figuring out why he keeps arguing, but if he wants to I'm not going to disappoint.

I happen to agree that it was wrong and that she shouldn't be allowed in the profession, for the same reasons IP said, but it doesn't have any bearing on the other arguments that have been made here and which you have yet to address.

The only other arguments I'm interested in addressing are those made earlier stating that it was okay because the kid was just getting his rocks off, because that is just plain wrong. I am waiting for Poe to justify his position that nothing wrong was done.

[AniThyng]

could someone please calmly explain to me why a 23 year old male teacher having sex with a 14 year old girl would be generally considered much more horrible then this situation? and let's assume then that they use contreceptives or do anal, to throw the pregnancy problem out of the equation, and that yes, it is consensual.

what changes in this situation that it's no longer funny [compared to this one]?

[AniThyng]

shit. no edit. i mean especially those who see no problem with this current situation at all, but would object if it were a male teacher + female student.

[Wired_Grenadier]

Good for the boy, bad for the teacher. She should've known better, this here pretty much ruined her carreer and could get her into jail. I have no moral problems with the whole issue, but as she was his teacher, it's a bit tricky.

[Col. Crackpot]

thinking back to when i was 14, i know wouldn't thought twice before poking her in the starfish. Thats the thing, 14 year old boys, when presented with no consequenses sex with an extremly hot teacher would almost always go for it. She abused a position of power and she needs to be punished.

[Durandal]

You're damn straight I'm shouting by now. I have a bunch of perverts telling me that this is okay. I am not happy about it. I wasn't under the impression that we supported pedophilia around here.

Wrong, you whiny little crotch-stain. IP said that the boy was probably not going to be emotionally scarred and was mostly likely bragging to his friends about nailing a hot teacher. That doesn't mean she didn't break the law, and that doesn't mean that she has no mental health issues to speak of. It just means that the kid probably had a good time. Based on the fact that it happened more than once (once in her apartment, no less), that's probably the case.

could someone please calmly explain to me why a 23 year old male teacher having sex with a 14 year old girl would be generally considered much more horrible then this situation? and let's assume then that they use contreceptives or do anal, to throw the pregnancy problem out of the equation, and that yes, it is consensual.

It's the same reason that you hear about a lot more cases of females being raped. Sex requires penetration on the part of the man, so it's something he actively has to do and therefore want to do.

[J]

The main issue as I see it is not that she slept with a 14 year-old, it's that she abused her position of authority and had relations with someone she's not supposed to. To use another example, I was an RA at my university, and I, along with the rest of the RA's were forbidden from pursuing relations with the freshman. This is a policy common to most universities, and it's there so the freshmen, many of whom are living on their own for the first time are not taken advantage of by a horny RA.

And that's why teachers shouldn't sleep with their students, even if they're all of legal age.

[Rogue 9]

The main issue as I see it is not that she slept with a 14 year-old, it's that she abused her position of authority and had relations with someone she's not supposed to. To use another example, I was an RA at my university, and I, along with the rest of the RA's were forbidden from pursuing relations with the freshman. This is a policy common to most universities, and it's there so the freshmen, many of whom are living on their own for the first time are not taken advantage of by a horny RA.

And that's why teachers shouldn't sleep with their students, even if they're all of legal age.

Precisely, thank you.

[Vohu Manah]

Excellent arguments can be made on both sides of this in an argument over the legality of the relations and abuse of power. However, I don't believe that one's "abuse of power" is subject to criminal action normally (there are exceptions, but this situation isn't one of them). Whether "abuse of power" occurred is irrelevant to a discussion of her criminal charges, she being a teacher accused of having an "improper" relationship with a student (who is a minor). Even if she wasn't a teacher, or he not her student, it would still be an allegation of lewd and lascivious battery. Any "abuse of power" that may or may not have taken place seems to have no effect on the charges against her.

[Trytostaydead]

The main issue as I see it is not that she slept with a 14 year-old, it's that she abused her position of authority and had relations with someone she's not supposed to. To use another example, I was an RA at my university, and I, along with the rest of the RA's were forbidden from pursuing relations with the freshman. This is a policy common to most universities, and it's there so the freshmen, many of whom are living on their own for the first time are not taken advantage of by a horny RA.

And that's why teachers shouldn't sleep with their students, even if they're all of legal age.

Egshactly.. which REALLY sucked for the poor RAs. And it's even worse for this teacher not only because its a real position of authority and responsibility but the kid was clearly a minor.

As for it being pedophilia? No, but the boy was young and developmentally more close to a BOY than a man. Biologically, while girls are supposed to hit puberty around 12, guys hit around 13.

[ArmorPierce]

It's the same reason that you hear about a lot more cases of females being raped. Sex requires penetration on the part of the man, so it's something he actively has to do and therefore want to do.

So you're telling me that a girl being raped is never horny and if she is horny therefore she wants it and wants to do it and it isn't rape?

[frigidmagi]

And I have to deal with a dogmatic kneejerk Christian kid that doesn't fucking get it.

Excuse me but, BULLSHIT.

You cannot dismiss his agruements simply because he is a member of an idealogy you dislike.

And since he's kid, What the fuck have you done that makes you sooo much wiser and better. Being an atheist doesn't count, becuase surprise! There are atheist that are dumb has bricks, just like any other idealogy on the fucking planet.

[Korvan]

This teacher is pretty good looking. It is difficult to understand her motives. She can easily get a good looking man as her lover. There is no need to resort to illegal activity like boinking a 14 yeal old to satisfy her sexual desires. She must be mentaly sick.

I wouldn't call her mentally ill and going after the kid wasn't just to satsify her sexual desires. It appears that her marriage was going badly and she was likely feeling like shit. She wanted to do something "bad" to help deal with her pain.

Sometimes my girlfriend gets depressed and when she does, she wants to do something bad, which in her case is to go down to Vera's Burger shack and have herself a Vic burger (double patty, double cheese, double onion and guarenteed to bring on a cornery). Her emotional needs outweigh her good judgement (heart disease runs in her family).

Now in the teacher's case, it showed really bad judgment. There's no way you aren't going to be caught at something like this. Having your professional future and freedom depend on a 14 old guy keeping his mouth shut just ain't a smart thing to do. But, I'd bet at the time she just did't care.

So what should be done? She shouldn't be a teacher anymore. She has proven that she can't be trusted. Plus a short jail term would likely be helpful to her. She could get some help in dealing with whatever pain brought on the whole trouble and it would give her time to reflect on what a moron she was.

[Darth Wong]

And I have to deal with a dogmatic kneejerk Christian kid that doesn't fucking get it.

Excuse me but, BULLSHIT.

You cannot dismiss his agruements simply because he is a member of an idealogy you dislike.

And since he's kid, What the fuck have you done that makes you sooo much wiser and better. Being an atheist doesn't count, becuase surprise! There are atheist that are dumb has bricks, just like any other idealogy on the fucking planet.

Excuse me, but BULLSHIT. Show me where Rogue's arguments were being REFUTED ON THE BASIS of his religion rather than the fact that he hasn't supported any of his claims worth shit. Or are you saying that the mere MENTION of his religion automatically allows you to presume that this is the only flaw anyone could find with his arguments?

[Ace Pace]

Go hang out with some 14 year olds. You'll have all the evidence you need inside of half an hour. Though I don't know why you're demanding proof of this; it is, after all, a part of your own position.

Excuse me, but there are several 14 year old members here, I don't notice us being crazy(outside of the SDN norm), or in anyway incapable of rational thought.

[SecondStorm]

The main issue as I see it is not that she slept with a 14 year-old, it's that she abused her position of authority and had relations with someone she's not supposed to. To use another example, I was an RA at my university, and I, along with the rest of the RA's were forbidden from pursuing relations with the freshman. This is a policy common to most universities, and it's there so the freshmen, many of whom are living on their own for the first time are not taken advantage of by a horny RA.

And that's why teachers shouldn't sleep with their students, even if they're all of legal age.

Precisely, thank you.

Are you trying to say that *this* is what youve been trying to say all along ?
Because I definately agree with that. She abused her position as a teacher and should be punished for that.

But the issue seemed to be pedophilia a few posts ago:

You're damn straight I'm shouting by now. I have a bunch of perverts telling me that this is okay. I am not happy about it. I wasn't under the impression that we supported pedophilia around here

Thats a fairly nasty accusation.

Back up why you think that sex with a person above 14 and below 18 is pedophilia.
If you try to hide behind legalese be prepared to be called on it.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Personally I thnk that a teachr fucking her student is unethical(from a teachng standpoint) sick(ick factor) and just a bit morally wrong.

HOWEVER, no harm was done to a 14 year old. Hell, the kid ejoyed the sex, and has bragging rights for the rest of his life. In fact, he probably lost his virginity to this teacher who is presumably experienced and rather attractive, and it will probably be the best lay he will get in years....

Now I classify the teacher as a pedophile, but in this case her "victim" was not actually harmed.

[Durandal]

Go hang out with some 14 year olds. You'll have all the evidence you need inside of half an hour. Though I don't know why you're demanding proof of this; it is, after all, a part of your own position.

Excuse me, but there are several 14 year old members here, I don't notice us being crazy(outside of the SDN norm), or in anyway incapable of rational thought.

14 year-olds are considered legally incompetent to make decisions about their sex lives, and there's a good reason for that. Teenagers are ruled by their hormones and aren't likely to be thinking rationally in situation where their systems are being flooded with said hormones.

[Galvatron]

I'm just jealous that a 14-year old is tapping that high-quality 23-year old poon. He's muscling in on my age bracket!

Punk.

[Galvatron]

Mug shots and the arrest report!

Wedding album!

Modeling pics!