Prime's death was the sweetest of all!

[Darth_Shinji]

They ALL were doing that! Name one transformer that didn't miss and cause no damage what so ever. And yes twice he couldn't beat prime... yet he woned in other fights with prime and outsmarted the guy in most episodes.

And what is this blue griffin?

One Transformer that didn't miss and caused damage? METAL HAWK! Of course he's the leader of the Pretender in Chojin Masterforce...

Its the japanese transformers..

Oh yes, he manages to outsmart Prime... who is also an idiot. Even without the shitty writing Megs is still an idiot. Any way you slice it Megatron is a horrible character. Oh and about the Griffin its in Aerial Assault. He makes the thing in a third world country along with jet drones he creates using jet parts which are smuggled in cars... Superion knocks it out the sky with one kick.

I take it you hate the original transformers? Alwell, everyones entitlled to thier opion... even if it's horribly horribly wrong!!

The blue griffin does indeed sound stupid.. but I heven't watch that one yet.So I'll refain from commenting till I get the second season dvds.

[VF5SS]

Aerial Assault is a very nicely animated episode. I also like it because it features my favorite TFs, the Aerialbots. Lets just say I became soured to the TV show after encountering too many Transfundies... In all seriousiness I except some stupidity in Super Robots (like how Mazinger Zetto and Great Mazinger were retired and put on display in gigantic glass cases..) mainly because you and the people around you can have fun with it. The TF community just makes me want to strangle somebody!

[VF5SS]

Truth be told I had much more fun playing with the toys than watching the TV show. I stil collect em today. Damn fine toys if you ask me. Many of them were sadly forgotten because they never had any air time.

[VF5SS]

There is no mud in Ultimate Doom, but there is FIRE RETARDANT FOAM! This handy plot device manages to short out the Decepticons while they are mere inches away from killing the Autobots.

[Darth_Shinji]

Aerial Assault is a very nicely animated episode. I also like it because it features my favorite TFs, the Aerialbots. Lets just say I became soured to the TV show after encountering too many Transfundies... In all seriousiness I except some stupidity in Super Robots (like how Mazinger Zetto and Great Mazinger were retired and put on display in gigantic glass cases..) mainly because you and the people around you can have fun with it. The TF community just makes me want to strangle somebody!

True... I've found lots of people hammer about all of the little things that stuff they don't like have, while they ingnore that there objects of obsession do simarly things. Example: Its really funny when a superman fan argues about the redicluoses in DBZ.

Really alot of communties are like that.... transfans are not unique.

[SAMAS]

Here's my reasons why BW Megatron is better than GI Megs:

#1: He actually won once in a while -- In many episodes of Beast Wars, the closest to victory the Maximals got to was getting out alive. He ended all but the final season coming out on top, and the one time they got him, he came back to win it all.

#2: He punished betrayal -- Even though as a Predacon, he appreciated treachery, and didn't have the resources to kill those he caught, Megatron always made sure that those who backstabbed him came to regret it. After Terrasaur rebelled with his powerup, none of the Predacons ever tried anything that direct ever again.

#3: He plotted well -- Rather than coming up with odd gadgets every other week, Megatron would eneact proper plans, and then act swiftly on them. When he noticed Rhinox's tactical genius, the first thing he did was to reprogram him as a Predacon. When it turned out that Pred-Rhinox was even better(or worse) than him, he promply de-programmed him, and tried to slag him. Later, when he took Cybertron, he again harnessed Rhinox, but this time he made sure to blunt his intelligence.

#4: He had a cooler voice -- Yeeessss...

[VF5SS]

[quote="Darth_Shinji]True... I've found lots of people hammer about all of the little things that stuff they don't like have, while they ingnore that there objects of obsession do simarly things. Example: Its really funny when a superman fan argues about the redicluoses in DBZ.

Really alot of communties are like that.... transfans are not unique.[/quote]

Macross and Super Robots fans aren't nearly as bad... Sure we've got our anal people but they're mostly harmless. I find that people like Raksha aren't quite that harmless...

[Darth_Shinji]

Here's my reasons why BW Megatron is better than GI Megs:

#1: He actually won once in a while -- In many episodes of Beast Wars, the closest to victory the Maximals got to was getting out alive. He ended all but the final season coming out on top, and the one time they got him, he came back to win it all.

#2: He punished betrayal -- Even though as a Predacon, he appreciated treachery, and didn't have the resources to kill those he caught, Megatron always made sure that those who backstabbed him came to regret it. After Terrasaur rebelled with his powerup, none of the Predacons ever tried anything that direct ever again.

#3: He plotted well -- Rather than coming up with odd gadgets every other week, Megatron would eneact proper plans, and then act swiftly on them. When he noticed Rhinox's tactical genius, the first thing he did was to reprogram him as a Predacon. When it turned out that Pred-Rhinox was even better(or worse) than him, he promply de-programmed him, and tried to slag him. Later, when he took Cybertron, he again harnessed Rhinox, but this time he made sure to blunt his intelligence.

#4: He had a cooler voice -- Yeeessss...

1. true on this point he did do better than g1... but g1 did came very close to winning in most episodes and in the end they both lost it all. and BW megs had a far more humilanting defeat in both series... first time he was used as a hood oniment, and then we find out it was his destine to basacly help carry out the antithesis of all his ambitions... the true balance between organic and inorganic parts of cybertron.

2.True.. the one major flaw of transformers...I can't denie it. The BW backstory helped improved that in thier backstory... major kudo's to that.

3. Thats the main incompception here... he did plan extreamly well... for the 80's. first off he never did get on this "odd gadget" kick you accused him of (at least in the first season). Most of the episodes was him discovering sources of energy and either keeping the autobots away or killing them so his plans could work, the other half was him exploiting weaknesses or opurtunities to try to beat the autobots... sound familer?

Rhinok can immedaitly be likened to Skyfire. He was convinced by starscream and megatron to join the decepticons... though he turned against them to join the autobots megatron never forgot how powerful and capable he was so he captured him and was planning on reprogram him when he was rescured.

Also while BW Megs caused primal lots of pain, I don't think he did any of the stuff g1 did to his prime. He convinced him of pressing the button that obviosly killed lots of humans.. Its one thing to commit genocide... its another thing to get your worse enemy to do it for you.

True he made more mistakes than BW megatron.. but writing standads were different back then... He was actaully one of the smarter and more remarkable villains of his age.

[Darth_Shinji]

oh and number 4 is VERY debatible.

[SAMAS]

Nah. G1 Megatron's voice was too scratchy, IMO. I prefer the rich, deep tenor of BW Megatron.

Particularly the way he can carry both meanace and comedy, often in the same episode.

Now while G1's voice was cool, it's mostly a matter of astetics.

"It's over, Prime!"

"A little torment I think first. Yes..."

[Kuja]

BW Megatron's voice is like oil on steel.

"Excellent...yes."

[Darth_Shinji]

[quote="Darth_Shinji]True... I've found lots of people hammer about all of the little things that stuff they don't like have, while they ingnore that there objects of obsession do simarly things. Example: Its really funny when a superman fan argues about the redicluoses in DBZ.

Really alot of communties are like that.... transfans are not unique.

Macross and Super Robots fans aren't nearly as bad... Sure we've got our anal people but they're mostly harmless. I find that people like Raksha aren't quite that harmless... [/quote] can you give me some links to some super robot fansites? I need some good ones if you don't mind.

And I know what you mean.... If she is anything like Genesis you have my condolences.
He is the Darkstar of superman...

[Shadow WarChief]

If she is anything like Genesis you have my condolences.
He is the Darkstar of superman...

She is the Graham Kennedy of Transformer fans. That should give you a pretty good idea of what she's like

[VF5SS]

That's an insult to Graham Kennedy! She's much worse. She is totally disconnect from reality.

http://lexicon.tf/subs.php?op=visit&lid=1750

Check this essay of her's.

[VF5SS]

The ebst supe robot site for pcitures and info is www.encirobot.com but its in Italian. For toys I'd go to toyboxdx.com

[Darth_Shinji]

Thanks for the links.

Truth be told I've seen her stuff before... mainly the essays and her fanfics. and I like her fanfics... however I've never had a chat with her so I'm taking your word for it.

[VF5SS]

I've never had a chat with her either, but if she's even worse than Lord Starscream I can only imagine how bad Raksha is...

[Galvatron]

I've never had a chat with her either, but if she's even worse than Lord Starscream I can only imagine how bad Raksha is...

Raksha dishonors mighty Galvatron. She must learn the error of her ways.

[VF5SS]

Yeesh man, you need to step out of character for a bit Anothet thing about some of these Transfundies that's getting out of hand. SNADS! Sensitive New Aged Decepticons... fuck em! The Destrons (Decepticons sounds too lame) are supposed to be meglomaniacal conquering killers damnit! Let em be happy with that! You know how many good goody warm family goodness fan fiction I've seen starring Destrons? The horror THE HORROR!

[Skelron]

Well I guess it all depends on where you read the comics, I understood it too be that the Autobots under Prime left Cybertron to destroy an Asteroid that was on it's way to smash Cybertron apart. (Although the War Within may change this...) and Megatron struck them after they had done this. (And so where weakened... a cunning stragtagy I think... let them save the Planet, then Strike when they are tired and low on Energon.)

Lets list Megatron's achievements.
1.) Starts the Cybatron civil war, actually creates the Deceptacon's yes Creates them, previously no Deceptacon's existed. Or if they did where seen as a peaeful sub sect within the Transformer's community, perhaps the military branch of society. But They where just a part of Cybatron. Then they rise up and conquor the Planet, a resistance exists yes but that is all it is, a resistance movement.
2.) Manages to seperate the resistance movement from it's leader, the one man who could bring it success, Prime, the one man who was Megatron's equal...
3.) Fast Forward to Earth, why not kill the Autobot's as they left the Ark, No energon, when the Autobots are revived they bearely have the strength to Transform, they have to go searching for a Energy source, the decepticon's where in a similar state, they didn't have the power to destroy the Autobot's they had to find an energy source FAST, or else have simply stopped and died, to spare the time to destroy the Autobot's wasn't possible, they did what they could and left. Later it was too late.
4.) So Megatron couldn't defeat Prime... hmm could that be because Prime carries with him the Creation Matrix and is therefore supposed to be the single strongest Transformer, yet Megatron was his equal...
5.) Later he kills Megatron name one villian who can say I killed my Arch-Rival, who was also the good guy and main hero...


Now then as for Starscream, and his betrayel, actually in the the comics Starscream spends a long time exiled from the deceptacons and running scared for his life, but when Megatron disapears he returns and takes control of a part of the force, when Megatron returns he is forced to deal with Starscream as an equal because he has no choice. Later Megatron agains disapears, and when he returns with a reactivated Starscream to reassert his authority because starscream was one of the most Powerful Decetacon's and them two working together was a powerful symbol to the others.

Now then if we take the New Transformer's Comics by Dreamwave, excepting ARmada which seems a seperate time line... we will see another picture of Megatron emerge...

[Skelron]

5.) Later he kills Megatron name one villian who can say I killed my Arch-Rival, who was also the good guy and main hero...

Prime he kills Prime not Megatron..

[Darth_Shinji]

of course if you are refering to that website recently posted.. LoL. guy only had one point that made sense.

and this point is what exactly?

The radar point. But here is a question… what sort of anti-prime plan should he have?

There was no mud in Ultimate doom...

I'm probably wrong about it being the ultimate doom, but I do know for a fact that he told the entire decepticon army to retreat after getting tossed in mud.

I need the episode name in order to know what happened… I remember them being thrown in lava though and retreating.. not mud.

Are you advocating that getting his troops and himself out of basicaly slow acting poison, idiotcy?

I'm saying that no knowing that something as mundane as a autobot sprinkler would have defeated his army is idiocy.

Thinking he was the one who knew it would destroy them, and already took steps to deactivate it and any other defences the aotubots had….

Compare it to what happened during the recent theatre crisis in moscow.

The russian spec ops go in, and the sprinkler's turn on and the team commander orders the retreat because of the sprinklers. It's idiocy.

“sir the spinlkers have turn on” “Ingnore them soldier” Just because they are poring a slow acting poison on us is no reason to flee from something so mundane as spinklers.” So if someguy came at you with a waterhose plugged into a pool of highly leathal toxins you wouldn’t run away…

And if indeed the autobot sprinkler's are poisonous, then who ever designed the ark is a fucking idiot for having necessary safety precautions be fatal.

Considering the aotubots easly dealt with the foam after the decepticons left they obviously had plans to deal with it. And if I was optimus prime I would pin a medal on that “fucking idiot’s” chest for saving all of their asses.

I haven't seen this one either but they were adding transformers way before the stunticons... so why couldn't he convert every vechile on the planet? Resources apperently

[qute]Ok let me get this straight.

He has enough resources to fuel an army.
He has enough resources to operate a base.
He has enough resources to launch massive poorly planned assaults week after week.
He has enough resources to keep starscream alive.
He has enough resources to keep inventing all kinds of neat little gizmos that could make his army invincible

Yet you're saying that he couldn't have cut back, even a little, on gadgets which he never uses, a traitor not worth the energy put into him, or to minimize the useless assaults on the autobots to even make one more soldier which we have seen him to have the ability to do?[/quote] all of which I can debate are not near as complex as a fully sentience robot that losses/gains mass whenever it transforms. Fact is we don’t know what types of parts are needed to create a transformer and how rare they are. Considering that the aotubots needed to go to cybertron once to get parts to repair optumus prime does suggest that it takes some highly advanced parts to make one. They can’t just make the parts out of rocks like they can bases.

Now I know you haven't watched the series lately...

To my sanity's great delight.

Then why are you debating this? My first statement was meant to say that a person needed to have a good knowledge of the series before you start throwing around generalities and steroytypes.

Megtron was mainly after getting energon...

...so that he could launch assaults and try to kill Optimus Prime. That's what he does EVERY week. Steal energy then attack the autobot base and try to kill Optimus Prime.

Nope… He mostly cared about getting the energon to cybertron.

and going home to take over the universe...

... which is exactly what I addressed. It takes him an absurdly long amoung of time to kill anybody. So at that rate he should NEVER conquer the universe. yet he continues to use the same flawed strategy..

So how long did it take for hime to kill prime? Are you still using the amount of time he was asleep to detreme this?

True he never finished the aotubots.. but all of this can be said for BW megatron.

Nope. He conquered cybertron, filled it with his vehicon drones and BECAME Cybertron and killed every being on cybertron except himself.

He WON the Beast Wars.

He might of won the Beast Wars… but he lost in beast wars.. and in the end he complealty andf utterly loss… not to mention he had more advantages than G1 megatron, had less to deal with than G1 megatron, and suvered far more humiliating defeats than g1 megatron….

Oh by the way.. following the way you define victory, megatron did win a few episodes and battles now and then. Prime and megs agree in the same way.

When?

The entire series. Spike and Sparkplug witwicky were always at the Autobot's sides, just BEGGING to be shot. As far as I know Megatron never even aimed his cannon at them.

Untrue.. he did. He also used the younger one to test the spacebridge and mind-controlled the older one. And whats with this allaince crap? Humans were pretty much useless for the most part. Not to mention

So it was totally his fault?

Yes

The war could have ended in 1984 with but a word from him. His treacherous sub-ordinate's continued existance was detrimental to the war effort. His poorly planned assault on Autobot City resulted in signifigant losses for his forces.[/quote] things you have yet to totaly prove.

Nope... first off the wars we not finished when he was destroied.

Irrelevant. It was his idiocy that caused the decepticons to suffer great losses despite the fact that he could have cleaned house. He should have WON the battle of autobot city and thereby have won the war. But he lost that battle and set the decepticons up for defeat.

Yes he could have... it was onlty otimus prime that stopped him... you see you claim it was his plan without going into specifics of say

Just because Hitler killed himself before the allies took over Berlin doesn't mean he didn't lose.

The allies weren't left complealty wasted and germany didn't have a larger army still remaining when he died.

second, he got very close to winning the war and only primes strenght finaly gave the autobots the chance to win.

So you're saying that

Hot Rod,
Kup,
Arcee,
Ultra Magnus,
Blurr,
Blaster + tapes
and the dinobots

could have defeated

Devestator (who completely ass rapes the dinobot's)
Starscream,
Thundercracker
Skywarp
Astrotrain,
Blitzwing,
SoundWave + tapes,
Dirge,
Ramjet,
Thrust,
the 3 insecticons

The decepticon's could have done WONDER'S with this army...which Megatron sqaundered.[/quote] NONE of your mistakes come even close to saying why the aotubots were still able to keep alll of these guys busy for an entire night.... lets face it, all of your mistakes don't show how they kept them out with only 5 transformers there... so how did his stupid hamstrung this force THAT bad? oh and you forgot the sceince aotubot and the green one know that I think of it.... plus all of the other stuff I mentioned.

coud Also if starscream hadn't betrayied him he would of claimed victory.

But he did betray him now didn't he. And why is that? Because Megatron let him live!

True... but he still won, in fact if not for unicron chances are the decepticons would of won the great war because of that battle anyway. Loss for him... bigger loss for the aotubots.

[Darth_Shinji]

Sorry.. missed this part.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Untrue.. he did. He also used the younger one to test the spacebridge and mind-controlled the older one. And whats with this allaince crap? Humans were pretty much useless for the most part. Not to mention that we more of a help to megatron than a hindrance. When he is connered what does meg hae to do? Endger some humans and escape while prime and the autobots predicitably saves them. And then there is stuff like the ant-matter formula, ultimate doom, the ninja robot..

[Darth_Shinji]

This is the completed one... don't know what happened before.

Anyway, Yes starscream is megatrons major mistake.. really stupid writing.. 80s for you. BUT, we were talking about megatron letting the autobots live when in fact he never did.

When's the last time you watched "More than meets the eye"?

The decepticons get revived while the autobots do not. Once all of the decepticons are repaired, what does the ol' Slag-sucker do? He orders his troops to march AWAY from his crippled enemies. A signifigant portion of the autobot army is literally lying before him, de-activated and helpless.

He ordered his army to march several hundred meters in the opposite direction!

Let's look at what he could have done:

-scavange the arc, and actually take the supplies which they were looking for.
-killed the autobots. All of them. He could have killed them all. He could have sent every last slag-sucking one of them to the Pit and conquered this pathetic dirt ball. But he didn't! His excuse? "They're not going anwhere. *walks off* Muhahaha!!"

Now really, how did he EVER become leader?

"Hydo ho there! I'm Megatron. I'm going to take my army to look for resources during a war. When I actually get the chance to scuttle my enemy's flag ship for parts, I walk away and don't exploit this opportunity. Not only that, but I don't actually kill the enemy when I have a chance. I'm an evil genious. Muhahhahah"

First off. I've watched it.... two nights ago.
Secound. they weren't helpless and crippled... they were dead for all intents and purposes... they were in more peices then when they were killed later in the movie. There was no way of them reviving without help of some from or another so for all intents and purposes they were dead. So why not leave them in the ark as a tomb? Also he might of feared somesort of aotumatic defenses if the ark was to be dismalted. Teltrain has shown the ability to react to attacks before so it might blow if they started to cannablize it. Though I do admit the one mistake I do see is not destroying the scanner thing.... but that goes back to the whole tampering thing.

You never did watch the first season did you? The autobots left first because they were staving for energy.

Yet the female autobots were able to hold off the decepticons on cybertron for 4 million years. If you have enough energy to last 4 million years, you don't have an energy shortage.

Cybertron was mostly uninhabeted space in the first series. plenty of space to hide... and despite your claims from the movie, we never see more than a dozen decipticons in all of these episodes on cybertron. And we do see what type of wreck it is also. And how do you know how much energy they needed to work? Howmuch energy a transformer needed to exist? Do you know how much energy cypertron needed to be repaired?

Megatron followed them to finish prime off and gather the energon the autobots were looking for....

Which he didn't actually need because cybertron operated perfectly wfor 4 million years. And please please plase "to finish off Prime"? He could have vaporized Optimus Prime and the entire autobot army. He didn't.

all you doing is trying to diprove canon.... Never works... and cypertron wasn't working "perfectly" for 4 million years... it still existed, but if unless you consider small groups scavilinging for energy and living in small bases in otherwise gigantic shattered hulk of a planet, with not enought energy to send another ship to try to find energy "perfectly".

and it was prob sockwave that saved cybertron while megatron was asleep. The earth decipticons even doubted cybertron still existed. Both sides needed that energy to have any chance of winning... it was stated.

And disproven by visual evidence that Cybertron did just fine for 4 million years.

If you consider missing big fucking chunks of the planet "fine".... No, the visaul evedence clearly surports that everthing on cybertron wasn't "fine". If you are shifting thru garbage cans for food your entire life in order to survive.... are you doing fine?

actually he did do something he shot starscream and starscream begged for his life..he still should of done it but those writters...

Ah yes memories...the first time starscream begged for his life. If his little beating of Starscream had actually accomplished something, then I really wouldn't care. But his little slap on the hand did nothing. Starscream betrayed every other episode. His attempt at discipline in MTMTE was an abject failure.

It kept him from outright betraying him again till the movie.

If I just had 1 IQ point for every fuck up of G1 Megatron I could actually do what he couldn't and conquer this dust ball..

I could make so many jokes.... But I'm still asking you to prove this.

In the movie.... both sides had more transformers....

Each side had more former's but the decepticons had DOZEN'S MORE!

The autobots had the following additions:

Blurr
Ultra Magnus
Arcee
Hot Rod
Kup (who isn't actually an addition considering he seems to have been around since the beginning of the great war.
Springer
Blaster


7 additions.

You forget the non-descript aotubots at atobot city and the moonbases...we were shown them beifly. And in season three we saw lots more, hundreds of non-decript if memory serves.

Oh, by the way... were was kup if only the 10 femal autobots were on cypertron? He wasn't with prime.. meaning there were other aotubots.

Now for the decepticon additions

The dozens of non-descript transformers seen in the taking off to fight unicron.

Nope they didn't flew off to fight unicron... we see them running... and they were actaully five types of transformers and they were all identical after that.

Both decepticon and autobot production rates have been shown to be less than stellar in the series.

I'll get to that point later on.. just to saw that you haven't both lack of needed resources had anything to do with it.

The autobots could have created their seven additions during the 21 year gap between season 2 and the movie.

Plus the non-descriptes and the huge amount in season 3. I remember a collusuim filled with aotubots.

But there's not a snowball's chance in hell that the decepticons could have made dozens of non-descripts we see in the movie. The only possible explanation is that those decepticons were already there on cybertron during the great war...

Why the hell not? They repaired cypertron(which had at least a contental hole in it.) And even if aotubots didn't make the moons... they weren't in the original series so one gruop or the other did. They can make two moons... and repair an entire world... but they can't make more transformers in this same period.

meaning that he could have called the down to earth to help in the fighting
[/qoute] As I've said.... all of this change, and if they did exist in

This is further supported by the fact that in MTMTE p1, we see a Starscream colored jet which isn't starscream (voice is indicative of this).
[.qoute] You want a list of how many mistakes like that I have in the first season? People talk... another person's voice shows up. Happens all the time.

of course the aotubots also built two moons,

proof that the moons were not already there? There's nothing to support that in the opening scrawl of the movie. It doens't say that the autobots BUILT the two moons, it just said that they were using them as bases.

The moons didn't exist in the first series... ultimate doom and more than meets the eye proves that.

and long assemble lines of weapons,

which did jack didly shit when they actually needed them to defend Autobot City

considering they were on the moons... irrevelant.

and a huge city on earth.

which was poorly defended by an aging veteran, a hot shot kid, an aging old kook, some full-titted toaster, an Optimus Prime wanna be, a sugar high small bot, a DJ and a 9 year old boy.

and the non-descripts, and those transformers who's bodies we see, and all of the aoutomated weapons and armour that came down. kept a force that was way larger than them for an entire night. I wouldn't exactly call it poorly defended.

However, starscream didn't attack megatron till after the aotubots were reawakened, and he couldn't have known for sure that he woke them up.

Would you mind explaining that again? I don't quite get your meaning.

You said that if megatreon killed starscream for insoboniation they aotubots would never be released… well he never went out and attacked megatron till after… and there was little evidence to point the finger at starscream.
Now lets look at your other points.

How? his plan was pretty good...

His plan was foiled by a 9 year old child.

Nope. He was spotted by hotrod and almost won anyway.

of course if you are refering to that website recently posted.. LoL. guy only had one point that made sense.

and this point is what exactly?

The radar point. But here is a question… what sort of anti-prime plan should he have?

There was no mud in Ultimate doom...

I'm probably wrong about it being the ultimate doom, but I do know for a fact that he told the entire decepticon army to retreat after getting tossed in mud.

I need the episode name in order to know what happened… I remember them being thrown in lava though and retreating.. not mud.

Are you advocating that getting his troops and himself out of basicaly slow acting poison, idiotcy?

I'm saying that no knowing that something as mundane as a autobot sprinkler would have defeated his army is idiocy.

Thinking he was the one who knew it would destroy them, and already took steps to deactivate it and any other defences the aotubots had….

Compare it to what happened during the recent theatre crisis in moscow.

The russian spec ops go in, and the sprinkler's turn on and the team commander orders the retreat because of the sprinklers. It's idiocy.

“sir the spinlkers have turn on” “Ingnore them soldier” Just because they are poring a slow acting poison on us is no reason to flee from something so mundane as spinklers.” So if someguy came at you with a waterhose plugged into a pool of highly leathal toxins you wouldn’t run away…

And if indeed the autobot sprinkler's are poisonous, then who ever designed the ark is a fucking idiot for having necessary safety precautions be fatal.

Considering the aotubots easly dealt with the foam after the decepticons left they obviously had plans to deal with it. And if I was optimus prime I would pin a medal on that “fucking idiot’s” chest for saving all of their asses.

I haven't seen this one either but they were adding transformers way before the stunticons... so why couldn't he convert every vechile on the planet? Resources apperently

[qute]Ok let me get this straight.

He has enough resources to fuel an army.
He has enough resources to operate a base.
He has enough resources to launch massive poorly planned assaults week after week.
He has enough resources to keep starscream alive.
He has enough resources to keep inventing all kinds of neat little gizmos that could make his army invincible

Yet you're saying that he couldn't have cut back, even a little, on gadgets which he never uses, a traitor not worth the energy put into him, or to minimize the useless assaults on the autobots to even make one more soldier which we have seen him to have the ability to do?

all of which I can debate are not near as complex as a fully sentience robot that losses/gains mass whenever it transforms. Fact is we don’t know what types of parts are needed to create a transformer and how rare they are. Considering that the aotubots needed to go to cybertron once to get parts to repair optumus prime does suggest that it takes some highly advanced parts to make one. They can’t just make the parts out of rocks like they can bases.

Now I know you haven't watched the series lately...

To my sanity's great delight.

Then why are you debating this? My first statement was meant to say that a person needed to have a good knowledge of the series before you start throwing around generalities and steroytypes.

Megtron was mainly after getting energon...

...so that he could launch assaults and try to kill Optimus Prime. That's what he does EVERY week. Steal energy then attack the autobot base and try to kill Optimus Prime.

Nope… He mostly cared about getting the energon to cybertron.

and going home to take over the universe...

... which is exactly what I addressed. It takes him an absurdly long amoung of time to kill anybody. So at that rate he should NEVER conquer the universe. yet he continues to use the same flawed strategy..

So how long did it take for hime to kill prime? Are you still using the amount of time he was asleep to detreme this?

True he never finished the aotubots.. but all of this can be said for BW megatron.

Nope. He conquered cybertron, filled it with his vehicon drones and BECAME Cybertron and killed every being on cybertron except himself.

He WON the Beast Wars.

He might of won the Beast Wars… but he lost in beast wars.. and in the end he complealty andf utterly loss… not to mention he had more advantages than G1 megatron, had less to deal with than G1 megatron, and suvered far more humiliating defeats than g1 megatron….

Oh by the way.. following the way you define victory, megatron did win a few episodes and battles now and then. Prime and megs agree in the same way.

When?

The entire series. Spike and Sparkplug witwicky were always at the Autobot's sides, just BEGGING to be shot. As far as I know Megatron never even aimed his cannon at them.

Untrue.. he did. He also used the younger one to test the spacebridge and mind-controlled the older one. And whats with this allaince crap? Humans were pretty much useless for the most part. Not to mention

So it was totally his fault?

Yes

The war could have ended in 1984 with but a word from him. His treacherous sub-ordinate's continued existance was detrimental to the war effort. His poorly planned assault on Autobot City resulted in signifigant losses for his forces.[/quote] things you have yet to totaly prove.

Nope... first off the wars we not finished when he was destroied.

Irrelevant. It was his idiocy that caused the decepticons to suffer great losses despite the fact that he could have cleaned house. He should have WON the battle of autobot city and thereby have won the war. But he lost that battle and set the decepticons up for defeat.

Yes he could have... it was onlty otimus prime that stopped him... you see you claim it was his plan without going into specifics of say

Just because Hitler killed himself before the allies took over Berlin doesn't mean he didn't lose.

The allies weren't left complealty wasted and germany didn't have a larger army still remaining when he died.

second, he got very close to winning the war and only primes strenght finaly gave the autobots the chance to win.

So you're saying that

Hot Rod,
Kup,
Arcee,
Ultra Magnus,
Blurr,
Blaster + tapes
and the dinobots

could have defeated

Devestator (who completely ass rapes the dinobot's)
Starscream,
Thundercracker
Skywarp
Astrotrain,
Blitzwing,
SoundWave + tapes,
Dirge,
Ramjet,
Thrust,
the 3 insecticons

The decepticon's could have done WONDER'S with this army...which Megatron sqaundered.[/quote] NONE of your mistakes come even close to saying why the aotubots were still able to keep alll of these guys busy for an entire night.... lets face it, all of your mistakes don't show how they kept them out with only 5 transformers there... so how did his stupid hamstrung this force THAT bad? oh and you forgot the sceince aotubot and the green one know that I think of it.... plus all of the other stuff I mentioned.

coud Also if starscream hadn't betrayied him he would of claimed victory.

But he did betray him now didn't he. And why is that? Because Megatron let him live!

True... but he still won, in fact if not for unicron chances are the decepticons would of won the great war because of that battle anyway. Loss for him... bigger loss for the aotubots.

[VF5SS]

And we all know that if Megatron ever attacks, we will let the fire department deal with him.