Moore invites public to download Fahrenheit 9/11

[Augustus]

Is it ok to download and fileshare Michael Moore’s movies specifically Fahrenheit 9/11 which has been posted on several websites just recently (along with an ‘Unofficial Transcript’ – but I wont go into that)? He seems to think so…

Well, I don’t agree with the copyright laws and I don’t have a problem with people downloading the movie and sharing it with people. As long they’re not doing it to make a profit off it, as long as they’re not, you know, trying to make a profit off my labor. I would oppose that. But um, you know I do quite well and I um...I don’t know, I make these books and movies and TV shows because I want things to change, so the more people that get to see them the better, and um, so I’m, I’m happy when that happens, OK? Should I not be happy I don’t know? It’s like if a friend of yours has the DVD of my movie, gave it to you to watch one night, is that person doing something wrong? I’m not seeing any money from that. But he’s just handing the DVD to you so that you can watch my movie. A DVD that he bought, but you’re not buying it, yet you’re watching it without paying me any money. See I think that’s OK, and it’s always been OK, we share things with people. And I think information and art, ideas should be shared.

Moore’s Own Words in Divx Glory

Interestingly enough this has put him at odds with Lions Gate Films and IFC Films the distributors of Fahrenheit 9/11. Tom Ortenberg, President of Lions Gate Films had this to say…

“I think it’s deplorable what enemies of ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’ are doing,” he said. “We are currently looking into our legal options. We are not going to tolerate anybody trying to infringe on (this film’s release)."

Ok…I’m left with the distinct impression that to Moore F911 isn’t a business or art at all but a self-centered political statement. Mainly because he doesn’t care if people are actually ‘paying’ to see the film as long as they are not profiting off his work, he is more concerned with grinding his axe and trying to bury it in somebody’s head. Sure Moore might be doing “quite well” (more pate de foie gras Sir?) but what about all the people below him that are attempting to make a living off the film? I thought Moore was a champ of the ‘working man’?

Guess not, as long as he got his.

Given Moore’s statement, why in the world would a film company want to do business with him? How in the world is IFC and Lions Gate going to prove damages and a Judge enact a remedy when the film maker has invited the public to steal?

Now watch this drive!

[neoolong]

Does he own the rights to the film? Because if he doesn't then him telling people to download doesn't mean you're legally able to.

[Tzeentch]

Ok?I?m left with the distinct impression that to Moore F911 isn?t a business or art at all but a self-centered political statement. Mainly because he doesn?t care if people are actually ?paying? to see the film as long as they are not profiting off his work, he is more concerned with grinding his axe and trying to bury it in somebody?s head.

He doesn't exactly say in the quote "I think its okay to download my film because I want to spread the hating!" His wanting people to see the movie via downloading seems to be as simple as his disagreement with the current state of IP legislation. It would also gyve with his film as art - he could want people to see the art.

But really, the film is a political statement, and Moore has admitted it publically. He doesn't like Bush, he wants Bush out of office, and he's made his views into a film. I don't see why its anything to get worked up about, as he's quite up front about 911 being a partisan film.

Sure Moore might be doing ?quite well? (more pate de foie gras Sir?) but what about all the people below him that are attempting to make a living off the film? I thought Moore was a champ of the ?working man??

I'd be interested to see an analysis as to what actual impact this would have on the grunts working on the films. I'd imagine that they'd get salaries, not royalties, although I could be wrong. I know the studio profits more than theatres on ticket sales, though its possible he could be reducing dvd sales. However, that isn't a given, seeing as I've seen studies arguing that it takes a very large number of music downloads to harm cd sales.

Given Moore?s statement, why in the world would a film company want to do business with him? How in the world is IFC and Lions Gate going to prove damages and a Judge enact a remedy when the film maker has invited the public to steal?

Farenheit 911 shattered the opening weekend record take for a documentary. On opening weekend in my town, it played only in art cinemas. After several days of sold-out showings, it is now in all the theatres in town. The studios love Michael Moore despite his eccentricities for the same reason they loved the Mel Gibson and his Passion: they made huge assloads of money, even if Moore's incitement to download may skim a little off the top.

Now watch this drive!

Let the mighty eagle soar!

[Augustus]

Farenheit 911 shattered the opening weekend record take for a documentary.

from boxofficemojo.com

$23,920,637 opening for F911 less production and marketing costs = $7,920,637

Yes I agree thats pretty good for a documentery. And all the more reason for IFC and Lions Gate to be shaking their heads in disbelief at Moore's statment.

[The Wookiee]

Ok…I’m left with the distinct impression that to Moore F911 isn’t a business or art at all but a self-centered political statement. Mainly because he doesn’t care if people are actually ‘paying’ to see the film as long as they are not profiting off his work, he is more concerned with grinding his axe and trying to bury it in somebody’s head. Sure Moore might be doing “quite well” (more pate de foie gras Sir?) but what about all the people below him that are attempting to make a living off the film? I thought Moore was a champ of the ‘working man’?

This is a documentary, not "Lord of the Rings". There are a sum total of, oh, about thirteen crewpeople who were directly involved in actually producing the film according to IMDb.com.

[Coyote]

Farenheit 911 shattered the opening weekend record take for a documentary.

Some 20-odd million sounds imprssive, but then again, "Dodgeball" made 30 mil the wekend before, so there's a perspective...

Hey, I downloaded a Michael Moore into a KBR portajohn today at Taji Base. And I paid him nothing for it. He should be happy!

[Vympel]

Dodgeball isn't a documentary. And has Ben Stiller in it.

[Col. Crackpot]

Dodgeball isn't a documentary. And has Ben Stiller in it.

You missed the point. More people paid to see mindless crap about dodgeball with Ben Stiller than did this supposedly biting politcal documentary.

[BoredShirtless]

Dodgeball isn't a documentary. And has Ben Stiller in it.

You missed the point. More people paid to see mindless crap about dodgeball with Ben Stiller than did this supposedly biting politcal documentary.

The market share for the category "documentary" is a small fraction of that for "comedy", so it's you who missed the point.

[Durandal]

Let's also not forget that Fahrenheit 9/11 opened in many less theatres that originally expected due to political pressures. Dodgeball (very funny, by the way) didn't have this problem.

Either way, the return on Fahrenheit 9/11 was probably significant; it probably didn't even cost $1 million to make.

Ok…I’m left with the distinct impression that to Moore F911 isn’t a business or art at all but a self-centered political statement. Mainly because he doesn’t care if people are actually ‘paying’ to see the film as long as they are not profiting off his work, he is more concerned with grinding his axe and trying to bury it in somebody’s head. Sure Moore might be doing “quite well” (more pate de foie gras Sir?) but what about all the people below him that are attempting to make a living off the film? I thought Moore was a champ of the ‘working man’?

This is a quasi-documentary. There were no set crews, no lighting crews, no production crews, no actors, and Moore himself did the narration. The number of people directly involved in making the film is tiny.

Even so, those people (the crews) get paid regardless of how well the film does; they're union members and are under contract for a flat, hourly rate. They don't have a share in the profits. So please cut the crap.

[Augustus]

Let's also not forget that Fahrenheit 9/11 opened in many less theatres that originally expected due to political pressures. Dodgeball (very funny, by the way) didn't have this problem.

Ya, sure, you betya.

Either way, the return on Fahrenheit 9/11 was probably significant; it probably didn't even cost $1 million to make.

According to boxofficemojo the production costs for F911 along with marketing, are in the neighborhood of $15 million. This is slightly scewed though because Moore is developing new ads for the film that were not part of the orginal campaign - in other words: the marketing cost is still going up.

This is a quasi-documentary. There were no set crews, no lighting crews, no production crews, no actors, and Moore himself did the narration. The number of people directly involved in making the film is tiny.

Even so, those people (the crews) get paid regardless of how well the film does; they're union members and are under contract for a flat, hourly rate. They don't have a share in the profits. So please cut the crap.

But they are FAR from the only people who stand to make money off the film. What about the guys at IFC and Lions gate? What about the guys that drive truks to distribute the film? What about the 17 year old kid working a summer job at the theater? The recently deviorced mother of two working the concession stand? What about the Janitors, Electricains, Managers, Plumbers, ect, ect?

Maybe they can get Moore give them a few crumbs off his plate.

And that is the point! Moore claims to be standing up for the 'working man' but his statement proves he doesn't give a shit about anyone who might depend on him to make a few bucks! He got paid upfront and thats all that matters.

[Keevan_Colton]

Augustus where the fuck do you pull this shit from anyway?

First its the people below him in the food chain, when it's pointed out theres a dozen or two and they get paid flat rate...now it's the delivery drivers....I have never ever ever fucking heard of a delivery driver paid on commission for delivering films...

Get a fucking brain you annoying little fucktard.

[Augustus]

Augustus where the fuck do you pull this shit from anyway?

First its the people below him in the food chain, when it's pointed out theres a dozen or two and they get paid flat rate...now it's the delivery drivers....I have never ever ever fucking heard of a delivery driver paid on commission for delivering films...

Get a fucking brain you annoying little fucktard.

Bite me asswipe.

There are more than a dozen or so people below him on the food chain. Just stop for a second and think about all the jobs that it takes to run a theater. How many? How many jobs does it take to distruibute a film? How many to market it? How many to clean the parking lot after everyone goes home?

Those people are not paid on commision! Downloading his movie because he says its 'ok' and hes 'well off' has an impact on those people. Those are the people that Moore says he is looking out for in virtually every film he has made - funny isn't it?

[Keevan_Colton]

Dont spout shit, theatre staff get a flat hourly fucking rate for what they do. The people who made the film have been paid, the people who work with the public get paid regardless and the film has already made back 7 million in profit so get bent.

I ask again where the fuck is it you pull this bullshit from?

Is it going to be this next? "The poor people at the company that make the popcorn that the cinema sell should all curse Moore now too for destroying their livelyhood"?

[Augustus]

Dont spout shit, theatre staff get a flat hourly fucking rate for what they do. The people who made the film have been paid, the people who work with the public get paid regardless and the film has already made back 7 million in profit so get bent.

Did you take an Econ course in college at all, moron? People who are paid a 'flat fucking rate' are not done so in perpetuity.

Moore's statement just proves he cares more about getting his message out than turning a profit on the film. Its Ironic that he draws so much emphasis on the plite of the working man, but then disregards them by saying its ok to download my movies because your not taking my money away.

I ask again where the fuck is it you pull this bullshit from?

I provided Moore's quote in the OP, dumass. It speaks for its self.

Is it going to be this next? "The poor people at the company that make the popcorn that the cinema sell should all curse Moore now too for destroying their livelyhood"?

I didn't say they should curse his name - just that Moore is being a hypocrite.

[Keevan_Colton]

I was refering to your general bullshit, Moores film thanks to it's stated goals has a remarkably short shelf life, there is no studio depending on it for it's survival, there are no jobs tied to it's success, there is no threat to the livelyhood of those people at the cinemas...frankly there's fuck all to the shit you've been spouting all about the place here and I'm getting pretty fucking sick of it.

Fucking delivery drivers and the people on the concession stand are depending on F9/11 for their job security....you are such a fucking retard that it's laughable.

Go on, get to fuck you annoying little shit you're becoming more than a bit of a bore.

[Durandal]

Let's also not forget that Fahrenheit 9/11 opened in many less theatres that originally expected due to political pressures. Dodgeball (very funny, by the way) didn't have this problem.

Ya, sure, you betya.

It opened in about 400 or 500 theatres, when 2000 was the intended number.

EAccording to boxofficemojo the production costs for F911 along with marketing, are in the neighborhood of $15 million. This is slightly scewed though because Moore is developing new ads for the film that were not part of the orginal campaign - in other words: the marketing cost is still going up.

And how much of that is marketing? Oh right, virtually all of it. How much do you think the actual film cost to put together? Use your god damn brain.

But they are FAR from the only people who stand to make money off the film. What about the guys at IFC and Lions gate? What about the guys that drive truks to distribute the film? What about the 17 year old kid working a summer job at the theater? The recently deviorced mother of two working the concession stand? What about the Janitors, Electricains, Managers, Plumbers, ect, ect?

Maybe they can get Moore give them a few crumbs off his plate.

And that is the point! Moore claims to be standing up for the 'working man' but his statement proves he doesn't give a shit about anyone who might depend on him to make a few bucks! He got paid upfront and thats all that matters.

Oh Jesus fucking Christ, are you serious? MOORE DOESN'T PAY THOSE PEOPLE YOU FUCKING IDIOT. The people working in theatres don't have a fucking profit-share from the film. Neither do the workers in the factories making film tins, the people who made Michael Moore's shirt or the kids working at Starbucks who sold Moore coffee.

[Darth Wong]

Moore's statement just proves he cares more about getting his message out than turning a profit on the film. Its Ironic that he draws so much emphasis on the plite of the working man, but then disregards them by saying its ok to download my movies because your not taking my money away.

Let me get this straight: Moore says that he's not interested in going after the little guy if he pirates his movie, so you somehow conclude that this means he doesn't care about the "plight of the working man"?

[Keevan_Colton]

Let me get this straight: Moore says that he's not interested in going after the little guy if he pirates his movie, so you somehow conclude that this means he doesn't care about the "plight of the working man"?

Yeah, and think of all those popcorn makers that will loose money...


Augustus :
Frankly I'm sick of this shit with Moore, I honestly believe you were being deliberatively deceptive with that thread yesterday and your ongoing bullshit in threads like this just seems to confirm my opinion of you.

Try getting a fucking point then making it rather than this "Moore is a meanie" type bullshit you've spread all over the board. A huge percentage of your posts so far are nothing more than tripe about Moore.

[Durandal]

Augustus :
Frankly I'm sick of this shit with Moore, I honestly believe you were being deliberatively deceptive with that thread yesterday and your ongoing bullshit in threads like this just seems to confirm my opinion of you.

Indeed. I'm starting to doubt his intentions with that thread as well.

[Augustus]

It opened in about 400 or 500 theatres, when 2000 was the intended number.

And its doing quite well...kudos. There is no way to argue with the sucess of the film, numbers don't lie.

And how much of that is marketing? Oh right, virtually all of it. How much do you think the actual film cost to put together? Use your god damn brain.

Production costs are actually $6 Million.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id ... eit911.htm

But hold on a second there Chief. Whats with the hositlity? I'm not claiming that F911 isn't a successful film or that he shouldn't have made it.

Its clearly very successful and there is an aduience for it, either that agrees with Moore or is intrigued by the controversy surrounding the film.

Oh Jesus fucking Christ, are you serious?

Yes I'm afraid I am.

MOORE DOESN'T PAY THOSE PEOPLE YOU FUCKING IDIOT. The people working in theatres don't have a fucking profit-share from the film. Neither do the workers in the factories making film tins ...

But these people work in support of his product. Take his product away and the jobs that these people depend on will be impacted.

Let me be clear - I think its great Moore made a movie people are going to see. I might not agree with it or even like Moore, but that will never change the fact that he's clearly a success.

...the people who made Michael Moore's shirt or the kids working at Starbucks who sold Moore coffee.

I will grant you this. But in case you cited Moore is clearly a 'consumer' not a 'producer' so its not the same thing.

[Sir Sirius]

You know, I'd bet good money that if Moore had said that dowloading his film was not OK Augustus would now be attacking him for being a hypocritical greedy bastard no different from the corporate fatcats he so likes to disparage.

[neoolong]

Shouldn't he also be arguing that the theaters are also screwing over the truck drivers, theater workers, etc. because of the 1500 or so theaters that decided to not show the movie when they had originally intended to?

[Augustus]

Shouldn't he also be arguing that the theaters are also screwing over the truck drivers, theater workers, etc. because of the 1500 or so theaters that decided to not show the movie when they had originally intended to?

Good point.

[Zaia]

MOORE DOESN'T PAY THOSE PEOPLE YOU FUCKING IDIOT. The people working in theatres don't have a fucking profit-share from the film. Neither do the workers in the factories making film tins ...

But these people work in support of his product. Take his product away and the jobs that these people depend on will be impacted.

Are you kidding? You think one film--a documentary showing at a handful of theatres around the country--is going to affect the movie industry so much that the pimply teenage ushers who work at the movie theatre will suffer paycuts or lose their jobs because of Moore?