Cosby Has Harsh Words for Black Community

[18-Till-I-Die]

One thing i wanted to say, since i realized i didnt make it clear.

I AGREE with most of what he said. Just not some of what he IMPLIED, and not the way he said it.

I agree Blacks cant afford to have tens of thousands of functionally illiterate children in schools, i agree we cant afford a culture of violence, and i most certainly agree we cant afford to have thousands of young Black men in prison for years, deprived of the right to vote and the chance to expand their horizons, only to get out and commit more crimes.

I simply disagree that we cant foster our own, disinct culture and community, and all that implies. I'm not a racist or a crazy Black supremacist, i just think having a distict community and culture wont hurt, i beleive it will help. But first the severe flaws in our current culture must be adressed. Now, i'm not the one to say how, cause i honestly dont know.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Nor have the fact that outlaw ballads go back centuries, and are also common in american, mexican, irish and english culture.

sexual bravado ballads god back to the middle ages and cities, however they hit their full stride in the Ragtime and Blues era. and have been running strong ever since then.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I dont mean anything like that, Kojikun. I said i understand why Blacks felt they needed a seperate culture , even if it has degraded over time into what it is now.

I understand what you are saying, but why do blacks need a seperate culture? Wasn't they main point of the civil rights movement that they should be allowed to participate in the larger culture freely? Wouldn't a single tolerant culture be preferable to several antagonistic cultures?

Yes, but that shouldnt exclude Blacks from having their own community too, as well as their adopted ones. Imegrants keep their own culture and community, and still integrate with others' communities and culture freely. But the problem with current Black culture is that it has become this antagonistic 'vs' mentality over time, and with that comes the violence, and other flaws. THAT is the problem that needs to be adressed, but i wouldnt know where to begin.

As has aleady been said, immigrants assimilate after 2 generations or so. And if they dont, they do it like asians, where they speak chinese/japanese etc etc at home, and celebrate their seperate new year and all that stuff, but then, when not at home, speak english and celebrate standard holidays.

Or they do it like the italians do, and keep their food, religion, and guilt tripping ethnic mothers. while fully integrating otherwise.

Or they do it like the germans, and fully integrate within 2 generations.

[The Yosemite Bear]

heh, heh

smiles the "German Jew" who knows nothing about German or Jewish Culture.....

gotta love pax americana

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

heh, heh

smiles the "German Jew" who knows nothing about German or Jewish Culture.....

gotta love pax americana

And the redhead "Irish Laddie" who may very well even be Scottish, English, or Irish in descent...

[The Yosemite Bear]

I got elliot (my Spike Lee lovin roomate from college) by pointing out that scicle cell animea runs in the benevelant side through my mom's family (meaning that I have some Moor in me)

he freaked out and said there was no way I was black

similed and introduced him to Huddie Leadbetter's Great Grandaughter (illegitamate relation) and told him DNA doesn't lie....

[Alyrium Denryle]

I am German, Danish and Scottish, not counting my fathers side. My family integrated and intermarried...

[The Yosemite Bear]

oh and that does mean that my mom, my sister and myself are highly resistant to maliara.....

[The Yosemite Bear]

Should I mention that my mom's family is a mix of Irish Prods and Irish Catholics who came over here a long time ago, and proceeded to intermarry with everyone....

oh, btw on my mom's side I'm related to Ted Turner, The McCoy Clan, and one of the scottish clan lords that betrayed Wallace....

[Alyrium Denryle]

Should I mention that my mom's family is a mix of Irish Prods and Irish Catholics who came over here a long time ago, and proceeded to intermarry with everyone....

oh, btw on my mom's side I'm related to Ted Turner, The McCoy Clan, and one of the scottish clan lords that betrayed Wallace....

Releatives of mins still have a castle in scottland... heh, dont even remember the clan name.

[Plekhanov]

So when exactly did blacks withdraw from the oh so smooth process of integrating you are implying? Are you actually suggesting that everything was going just fine till rap came along? Because it sounds like you are.

Lets take a look.. the civil rights movement was specifically about the african american community fighting for the right to integrate with the rest of society. They fought tooth and nail for the right to vote, and go to good schools. Andthey relished these rights until recently.

The parents and grandparants of the current generation fought for these rights. Now we look at the current generation...Squandering them. For some reason, a subculture that abhors everything the civil rights movement fought for has arrisen. I dont lay blame on rap necessarily, but rather loathe and despise said subculture regardless of its cause

You seem to be implying that the civil rights movement was a complete success (the fact that Nixon won the 1968 election with a campaign messages in the south was “our schools are for education-not intergration” tends to undermine that claim) and that Blacks “relished these rights until recently” till the “current generation” for some reason (your original post seemed to suggest the pernicious influence of gangsta rap) “squandered them” this just isn’t the case. Millions of blacks did move upwards thanks to the successes of the Civil Rights movement however millions weren’t able to make this move and remained in inner city slums. American society remained deeply racist as did the state, particularly the criminal justice system.

Gangsta Rap which I assume is the principle target of your anger can’t possibly be the cause of the problems facing many lower class African Americans because it didn’t come about till the late 80s (with Ice-Ts “Power” in 1988 and NWA’s “Straight Outta Compton” in 1989) it was a product of the problems facing lower/under class Blacks in ghettos it is a reflection of the environment not the cause.

It may well now be part of the problem as it glamorises a dysfunctional lifestyle but you credit music with far too much power if you lay the blame for the social problems facing many lower class blacks on rap

I refer more to broad cultural norms like... you know... Valuing education, law, hygene, and a didinct lack of rampant sexism.

Even subcultures have only minor differences with the larger culture. I wouldnt even describe "black clture" as a subculture, like the "punk" culture of the 80's, it is a counter culture. COmppletely opposed to the above norms of law, education, hygene etc etc.

lets not get off track by attacking capitalism.

I’m not attacking capitalism you muppet, I am a capitalist however I don’t let that blind me to the fact that one of the major values espoused by gangsta rap is the unprincipled accumulation of wealth and that this is also one of the foundations of capitalist and American society, it’s just that gangsta rap strips away the niceties. Similarly mainstream American (and British) society is in many ways deeply sexist it’s just that one the whole in public most people are much less upfront about it than gansta rappers are.

Does “black culture” as you describe it even exist? According to the only figures I have easily available in 1990 46% of Black workers were in white-collar jobs these people and their kids don’t belong to the “black culture” you describe. I would suggest that you are actually describing a subculture which developed in the slums. I question the extent to which gangsta culture is “completely opposed” to the “norms” you claim mainstream American society holds, as in America like every other developed nation I’m aware of education is by no means universally valued and the law is selectively followed. Gangsta rap is undoubtedly more extreme in its resentment of the state and distain for education than mainstream society but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is completely “counter” to it.

Also what the hell is the hygiene thing you’re talking about since when do gangsta rappers not wash?

[Andrew J.]

oh, btw on my mom's side I'm related to Ted Turner, The McCoy Clan, and one of the scottish clan lords that betrayed Wallace....

Supposedly, I'm a descendant of the Italian humanist Petrarch.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I ran into my friend Anthony S. over at my brother's wedding last month, he's the great-great-grandson of Russia's most infamous priest....

[His Divine Shadow]

When people talk about Asian culture, they mean the actual geographical region of Asia, not a Chinese immigrant living in New Jersey. But when people talk about black culture, they're referring to this ghetto gangsta ebonic moron dipshit culture that's been created by drug dealers and youth gangs in the burned-out inner cities of the continental US. It glorifies ignorance and crime, drips with contempt for education and civilized society, and makes really shitty music.

Word brutha!
Seriousl though that music is some of the worst shite I've ever had the misfortune of hearing, god it sucks.