Politicizing Pessimism

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-07-07 10:07am

President Bush's smear campaign against the Democratic presidential ticket continues:

"Senator Edwards delivers his pessimism with a southern drawl and a smile, but his message of a divided America rings hollow in the ears of an optimistic America that is united in meeting the tests of our times with strength and hope."

It's a sad mark of how hollow and pathetic the Bush Administration truly is that their idea of a good attack strategy against their Democratic challenger is to point fingers at them and scream "pessimist!" for daring to (gasp!) attack the perceived policy weaknesses of the incumbent administration. I mean how dare they? They're only after his job, how dare they point out to the voters where the stains are on the Bush Administration's collective suit?

The Bush Administration has failed to debate the Democrats on a single issue and is simply trying to directly attack the candidates. This doesn't look like a winning combination to me. Even the stunningly low average quality of the American voter has to see that President Bush is flailing.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-07-07 12:58pm

Your average idiot American voter is too busy praying that President Bush lives a thousand years to notice any flailing. He's like the deadly combo of Jesus and Chairman Mao in one body with the added advantage that he's as dumb as the people he panders to, and idiots love their fellow idiots.

It doesn't help that the Democrats couldn't find somebody more...what's the word I'm looking for...charismatic? Cutting? Advertiseable?

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 01:43pm

Even the stunningly low average quality of the American voter has to see that President Bush is flailing.

Everyone loves to say how stupid Americans are all the time. It does grow old after the 400th trite time.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-07-07 01:48pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:Everyone loves to say how stupid Americans are all the time. It does grow old after the 400th trite time.

Hurt feelings don't hold much water around here. Unless of course you think the statement is unjustified. With 50% of the population being Creationists, I welcome you to try.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 01:50pm

Some are stupid yes, but there are stupid voters everywhere.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 01:51pm

Hurt feelings don't hold much water around here. Unless of course you think the statement is unjustified. With 50% of the population being Creationists, I welcome you to try.

It doesn't hurt my feelings no. Saying it mindlessly over and over and over every chance people get IS. You needed repeat it till it becomes trite.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 01:52pm

Edit: IS old. It's like beating a dead horse. Is there some jollies in it or something?

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 01:55pm

Hurt feelings don't hold much water around here. Unless of course you think the statement is unjustified. With 50% of the population being Creationists, I welcome you to try.

I think it is stupid too, creationists don't make the entirety of the voting population. Most of the nation doesn't even vote, and then you have 50% of the nation who isn't creationist to your own statistics.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-07-07 02:00pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:It doesn't hurt my feelings no. Saying it mindlessly over and over and over every chance people get IS. You needed repeat it till it becomes trite.

Um, that remark was a tiny fraction of the OP, and completely relevant to the OP's message. Iceberg wasn't going "AMERICANS ARE STUPID AMERICANS ARE STUPID AMERICANS ARE STUPID" in a post bereft of all other content. Quit your whining.

think it is stupid too, creationists don't make the entirety of the voting population. Most of the nation doesn't even vote, and then you have 50% of the nation who isn't creationist to your own statistics.

The widespread political apathy of the American public alone is enough to render it incompetent to rule. And Creationism isn't the root problem, all-round ignorance and sensationalism of trivial things like hair style is. As far as voting is concerned.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-07-07 02:07pm

I really wonder how the American political system still works under such conditions.....

desertjedi · Post by **desertjedi** » 2004-07-07 02:08pm

Reminds me of the Carter/Reagan campaigns, one was.. well I wouldn't say pessimistic, maybe somber while the other was very optimistic about America...

No this is not a comparison of Reagan and GWB....

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 02:10pm

Your average idiot American voter is too busy praying that President Bush lives a thousand years to notice any flailing. He's like the deadly combo of Jesus and Chairman Mao in one body with the added advantage that he's as dumb as the people he panders to, and idiots love their fellow idiots.

It doesn't help that the Democrats couldn't find somebody more...what's the word I'm looking for...charismatic? Cutting? Advertiseable?

Average Idiot American voter. This also makes it look like nearly all voters are Creationists. If they are, fine. I agree then. If they aren't, no, I don't.

Even the stunningly low average quality of the American voter has to see that President Bush is flailing.

Another statement of how stupid Americans are. I am dropping this because I never said anyone was wrong about the Christian crap, but it is obvious bandwagoning. One person says Americans on average are stupid, and then the others come flocking in to say it over and over.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 02:13pm

I really wonder how the American political system still works under such conditions.....

It works like it does in every other demmocratic nation. I don't see other nations with great leaders either, Tony Blair included, Chirac...etc. People are apparently poor choices of leaders in other nations as well. There are stupid voters eveywhere, the United States just has more apparently, and that's probably a fact.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 02:14pm

Should I google "stupidity" and "the american voter" or something to get statistics on the intelligence level of American voters? I wonder if that works for other things.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-07-07 02:17pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:Average Idiot American voter. This also makes it look like nearly all voters are Creationists. If they are, fine. I agree then. If they aren't, no, I don't.

You can be an idiot without being a Creationist. I was using it as a fucking example of the already very apparent stupidity.

Another statement of how stupid Americans are. I am dropping this because I never said anyone was wrong about the Christian crap, but it is obvious bandwagoning. One person says Americans on average are stupid, and then the others come flocking in to say it over and over.

No it's not you fucking idiot. This thread is about Bush's campaign strategy and whether or not it will work on the American public. Iceberg wondered if it was too stupid to work on us, while Mayabird said she doubts it. You're too preoccupied with their underlying assumption to see that they were bringing up completely disparate points. All you're doing is whining and bitching.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 02:36pm

You can be an idiot without being a Creationist. I was using it as a fucking example of the already very apparent stupidity.

Ok. I never said they weren't creationists, and I never said there weren't stupid people. So you are getting where with this?

No it's not you fucking idiot. This thread is about Bush's campaign strategy and whether or not it will work on the American public. Iceberg wondered if it was too stupid to work on us, while Mayabird said she doubts it. You're too preoccupied with their underlying assumption to see that they were bringing up completely disparate points. All you're doing is whining and bitching.

1. Zero need to allude to the overwhelming stupidity of Americans if you are wondering if it is too stupid to work on them. The banal, bullshit phrase is unnecessary. You can get teh point out w/out it.

2. I never said the argument wasn't about: Bush's campaign strategy and whether or not it will work on the American public, so, your point has no point. I was correct a trite statement, not the validity of her argument. That's not wrong. My comment completely follows the definition of the word.

1. Lacking power to evoke interest through overuse or repetition; hackneyed.
2. Archaic. Frayed or worn out by use.

Nah. I am hardly an idiot for calling trite material, trite, well, because it is. I agree with the statement that many people are stupid, yet for some reason I don't have to bring it up nonstop where as many other's run to do so. The statement is as boring as all repeated generalizations. It's still trite, trite, and downright trite. Period. So stop whining that I called your statement truthful, but banal, cause its far from fucking wrong sir.

There is zero value to repeating the clichéd, bromidic, crap-peddling statements. You can get your argument accross the board without it. I don't care if you agree, since everything I said was 100% factual, and never did I say you were WRONG.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 02:38pm

Show me where I said you were wrong, stupid, or an idiot for making your argument, and then I will concede. Since you can't do that...

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-07-07 02:42pm

It's just that President Bush going "He's pessimistic!" is such an incredibly lame criticism of his opponent, especially since he seems to think that pessimism is when you don't think that everything will turn out peachy keen if the country doesn't Stay The George W. Bush Course.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 02:43pm

it is lame, and anyone who believes that is stupid.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-07-07 02:48pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:it is lame, and anyone who believes that is stupid.

Well, it's guaranteed to play well with President Bush's constituants, which I suspect is the whole point. Bush is mostly buttering up his own base right now, rather than the middle. Which would be fine, since polishing your base's pole and not even pretending to shimmy to the middle doesn't win elections. Unfortunately, Senator Kerry isn't doing exactly a good job capitalizing on that.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-07-07 02:56pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:Ok. I never said they weren't creationists, and I never said there weren't stupid people. So you are getting where with this?

You wrote:Average Idiot American voter. This also makes it look like nearly all voters are Creationists. If they are, fine. I agree then. If they aren't, no, I don't.

Here is where you made Creationism (which I used as an example of a symptom of stupidity) out to be the sole determining factor of whether or not a population could be considered stupid.

1. Zero need to allude to the overwhelming stupidity of Americans if you are wondering if it is too stupid to work on them. The banal, bullshit phrase is unnecessary. You can get teh point out w/out it.

Style over substance. Thank you for admitting that you were just whining about people being mean and contributing nothing.

2. I never said the argument wasn't about: Bush's campaign strategy and whether or not it will work on the American public, so, your point has no point. I was correct a trite statement, not the validity of her argument. That's not wrong. My comment completely follows the definition of the word.

So you agree, but are getting your tits in a twist about whether or not it's trite. Since one baseless, subjective opinion is as good as the other, I say it can't be said enough.

Nah. I am hardly an idiot for calling trite material, trite, well, because it is. I agree with the statement that many people are stupid, yet for some reason I don't have to bring it up nonstop where as many other's run to do so. The statement is as boring as all repeated generalizations. It's still trite, trite, and downright trite. Period. So stop whining that I called your statement truthful, but banal, cause its far from fucking wrong sir.

What statement? All I did was call you on your whining. You jumped into this thread bitching and complaining about the style of the argument. Or maybe you just don't get it. No one cares if calling Americans stupid often gets on your nerves. That's not a valid condemnation for anything.

There is zero value to repeating the clichéd, bromidic, crap-peddling statements. You can get your argument accross the board without it. I don't care if you agree, since everything I said was 100% factual, and never did I say you were WRONG.

"I agree, but you don't need to be so MEAN!"

Nitpicking, semantic whining. What a waste of fucking bandwidth.

Show me where I said you were wrong, stupid, or an idiot for making your argument, and then I will concede. Since you can't do that...

Hey! I challenged you to show it was wrong if that was your intention. Since it wasn't, and all you were doing was pissing and moaning about the style in which the argument was delivered (like I suspected) SHUT THE HELL UP!

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-07-07 02:57pm

Well, it's guaranteed to play well with President Bush's constituants, which I suspect is the whole point. Bush is mostly buttering up his own base right now, rather than the middle. Which would be fine, since polishing your base's pole and not even pretending to shimmy to the middle doesn't win elections. Unfortunately, Senator Kerry isn't doing exactly a good job capitalizing on that.

Wouldn't the people who support him already be lined up behind him though? Why would they need such flagrant, useless boasting. It seems kinda of redundant. He should be trying to appeal to those who don't already follow his lead, no?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-07-07 10:05pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:Wouldn't the people who support him already be lined up behind him though? Why would they need such flagrant, useless boasting. It seems kinda of redundant. He should be trying to appeal to those who don't already follow his lead, no?

That's why what he's doing is dumb. Slobbing on the knob of the conservative christian right won't win an election for him because they will be voting for him no matter what he does. I've always said that if President Bush ate a baby on live television, 35% of the country would still vote for him because they'd still rather vote for a babyeater than a democrat. Who he needs to target is the middle; the moderate right and the center, but he doesn't seem to want to bother. I think he's operating on the assumption being the Christian Right President will get him swept into office, but that's his funeral. Unfortunately, Kerry hasn't capitalized on the seizing the center yet.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-07-07 10:06pm

Incidently, I bet Bill Clinton is watching the news right now and thinking "Man, I wish there wasn't a two election limit... I'd so beat Bush."

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-07-07 10:26pm

As far as I can tell Kerry's whole stragey is to scream at the top of his lungs

"I'M NOT BUSH, I'M NOT BUSH! DID YOU KNOW I'M NOT BUSH?"

Bush shrieks back

"EVERYTHING IS FINE! PERFECT! WUNDERBAR, ALLES IN ORDUNG! YOU'RE A FOOL IF YOU THINK IT'S NOT!"

All either of them have really done is drive groups of moderates and not so moderates to seek 3rd parties. In fact, I believe I'll vote Naider. Anything expect the libertains and the Nazis have got to be better than those two idiots.