This was posted in the Pure Star Trek area, but was posted by a Troll so it was locked. But before it was locked, it raised a pretty good question. How big is the Dominion?
evilcat4000 wrote:Estimates I have seen posted on this board run around 30000 ships, Most of it are attack ships with some battlecruisers and a small number of the formidable battleships. The Dominion may also have a super battleship according to DITL.
Chris OFarrell wrote:Firstly I see no reason whatsoever to assume they sent anything LIKE their full fleet through to the AQ. From what I saw it was mostly industrial equipment to set up an infastructure. As early as 'One Little Ship' we see that the Jem'Hadar bred in the AQ are starting to outnumber those that came from the GQ. Its also preaty damn clear the convoys had FAR more then fifty ships in them. Kira mearly said that there were at LEAST fifty. My guess is that the Defiant only came to the very edge of sensor range while under cloak and could only get a vauge reading on passive sensors. Simply counting the numbers of ships heading out of the wormhole in 'In Pergatories Shadow' or 'By INfernos Light' or 'A Call to Arms' shows hundreds of ships.
Further, we know the industrial base they setup was pumping out ships faster then the FKR allience could destroy them, until several of their shipyards were destroyed.
We know at the end the combined Jem'Hadar - Breen - Cardasian fleet was around 25,000 ships. The Cardasians had been horribly weakened by the war and previous war with the Klingons. The Breen never really appeared to have large numbers of ships. Which means the Dominon with nothing but Cardasias enhanced infastructure had been able to make up for their loses at an impressive rate.
Of course the same can be said of the UFP, but its something of an economic powerhouse once it got its resources and industry shifted to a full war footing. Though it took long enough, in 'The Pale Moonlight' that Romulan senator commented that the Federation was still rebuilding its shipyards.
How many of these ships in this 25,000 ship combined fleet were support craft or small vessels such as the Cardassian Fighters or Jem'Hadar attack ships?
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Darth Wong wrote:How many of these ships in this 25,000 ship combined fleet were support craft or small vessels such as the Cardassian Fighters or Jem'Hadar attack ships?
Really that’s unknown, but most of the time the fleet seems to be comprised of Dominion Attack Fighter. The Cardassians have more Galor class Destroyers than they do Attack Fighters and the Dominion Battlecruisers made up most of the fleets. By the end of the War the Breen added several hundred Battlecruisers, and the Dominion developed Big Battleships that dwarfed anything the allies had.
The Dominion seems to have about 80% of their fleet designed around the fighter. It works in massed fire tactics, wolf packs so to speak. The Cardassians almost entirely rely on their Galors. They have some Heideki's, but everything we've seen show it to be fairly uncommon except in very large fleet engagements. Breen only had one ship size.
Thats one advantage the FKR Alliance had. They had a larger number of heavier ships.
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Alyeska wrote:The Dominion seems to have about 80% of their fleet designed around the fighter. It works in massed fire tactics, wolf packs so to speak. The Cardassians almost entirely rely on their Galors. They have some Heideki's, but everything we've seen show it to be fairly uncommon except in very large fleet engagements. Breen only had one ship size.
Thats one advantage the FKR Alliance had. They had a larger number of heavier ships.
Yea, but what would have happened if they built more 4800 meter Battleships? I mean, those things were sweet.
Alyeska wrote:The Dominion seems to have about 80% of their fleet designed around the fighter. It works in massed fire tactics, wolf packs so to speak. The Cardassians almost entirely rely on their Galors. They have some Heideki's, but everything we've seen show it to be fairly uncommon except in very large fleet engagements. Breen only had one ship size.
Thats one advantage the FKR Alliance had. They had a larger number of heavier ships.
Yea, but what would have happened if they built more 4800 meter Battleships? I mean, those things were sweet.
It would be interesting to see such a ship in action. The 1200 meter long Dominion battleship was stated to be 3 times stronger than a Galaxy class in The Valiant. So a larger battleship would be much more powerful.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
Alyeska wrote:The Dominion seems to have about 80% of their fleet designed around the fighter. It works in massed fire tactics, wolf packs so to speak. The Cardassians almost entirely rely on their Galors. They have some Heideki's, but everything we've seen show it to be fairly uncommon except in very large fleet engagements. Breen only had one ship size.
Thats one advantage the FKR Alliance had. They had a larger number of heavier ships.
Yea, but what would have happened if they built more 4800 meter Battleships? I mean, those things were sweet.
No such ship exists.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
IIRC the Dominion Battleship was mentioned to be twice the length of a Galaxy class starship in "The Valiant". That would make it 1200 meters long not 1600 meters long like an ISD. It is about the same size as a MC80 cruiser.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
Sovereign wrote:Yea, but what would have happened if they built more 4800 meter Battleships? I mean, those things were sweet.
Maybe you didn't know this, but when someone says a ship is a mile long onscreen, that actually means 1600 metres, not 4800 metres.
Perhaps, but a lot of people have estimated that from that one particular scene in "What You Leave Behind" it shows one of the 680+ meter Dominion ships pass over the Battleship and the Battleship dwarfed it. This opinion is mixed though. DITL.org says its 4800 and Ex Astris.com says its 1500 meters. I think its about 3000+ meters because from that scene it looks that big. I would like to get that pic of the Battleship in comparison to a Galaxy Class that John Eaves drew.
Sovereign wrote:Yea, but what would have happened if they built more 4800 meter Battleships? I mean, those things were sweet.
Maybe you didn't know this, but when someone says a ship is a mile long onscreen, that actually means 1600 metres, not 4800 metres.
Perhaps, but a lot of people have estimated that from that one particular scene in "What You Leave Behind" it shows one of the 680+ meter Dominion ships pass over the Battleship and the Battleship dwarfed it. This opinion is mixed though. DITL.org says its 4800 and Ex Astris.com says its 1500 meters. I think its about 3000+ meters because from that scene it looks that big. I would like to get that pic of the Battleship in comparison to a Galaxy Class that John Eaves drew.
That scene is a known VFX error and therefor the 5km long ship does not exist.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Darth Wong wrote:
Maybe you didn't know this, but when someone says a ship is a mile long onscreen, that actually means 1600 metres, not 4800 metres.
Perhaps, but a lot of people have estimated that from that one particular scene in "What You Leave Behind" it shows one of the 680+ meter Dominion ships pass over the Battleship and the Battleship dwarfed it. This opinion is mixed though. DITL.org says its 4800 and Ex Astris.com says its 1500 meters. I think its about 3000+ meters because from that scene it looks that big. I would like to get that pic of the Battleship in comparison to a Galaxy Class that John Eaves drew.
That scene is a known VFX error and therefor the 5km long ship does not exist.
It’s still personally hard to believe that they made such a big mistake more than once. There is a scene up close and personal where a Breen ships flies over it, and then where two Dominion ships fly over it. All in all though, you could be right.
Howedar wrote:Considering the known "quality" of ship scaling (the Defiant and BOP are the best examples) I'd not take a scene or two as proof of a new ship class.
True. It would be nice if the Dominion was featured in a movie. Perhaps then the scaling would be accurate.
Sovereign wrote:It’s still personally hard to believe that they made such a big mistake more than once. There is a scene up close and personal where a Breen ships flies over it, and then where two Dominion ships fly over it. All in all though, you could be right.
Actualy they made the mistake ONCE and thats it. If the ship exists please tell me why we never once saw it in combat.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Sovereign wrote:It’s still personally hard to believe that they made such a big mistake more than once. There is a scene up close and personal where a Breen ships flies over it, and then where two Dominion ships fly over it. All in all though, you could be right.
Actualy they made the mistake ONCE and thats it. If the ship exists please tell me why we never once saw it in combat.
They were not engaged by the FKR fleet because there was no fighting over Cardassia, the Founder surrendered before the fleets engaged. I almost wish they had, it would have been one hell of a show .
Sovereign wrote:It’s still personally hard to believe that they made such a big mistake more than once. There is a scene up close and personal where a Breen ships flies over it, and then where two Dominion ships fly over it. All in all though, you could be right.
Actualy they made the mistake ONCE and thats it. If the ship exists please tell me why we never once saw it in combat.
Here is the Breen ship
And here is the typical Dominion ship pic
They were not engaged by the FKR fleet because there was no fighting over Cardassia, the Founder surrendered before the fleets engaged. I almost wish they had, it would have been one hell of a show .
You ignore the fact that there was plenty of fighting before this point and we should have seen the ship. You further ignore the fact that suddenly the 1.2km long version just isn't there anymore.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Alyeska wrote:You ignore the fact that there was plenty of fighting before this point and we should have seen the ship. You further ignore the fact that suddenly the 1.2km long version just isn't there anymore.
It was seen in battle, and there is another scene which I cant find that shows two of them turn around and head for Cardassia when ordered too.
Incorrect. Look at the angle of the Vorcha beam and the size of the Vorcha. The Vorcha is only around 400 meters FYI.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Isn't that a Defiant class ship coming up from underneath the supposed 1.2km ship? It doesn't appear to be any more than a hundred or so meters (rough estimate) away from it. And Defiant class is certainly not a kilometer long.
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Alyeska wrote:Incorrect. Look at the angle of the Vorcha beam and the size of the Vorcha. The Vorcha is only around 400 meters FYI.
481.3 meters to be accurate. But one scene of a Vorcha cannot change the proof of the others. The Dominion Battlecruiser is is 639.75 meters long, and it is Dwarfed by the Battleship as seen in this pic, which shows the Battlecruiser still ontop the Battleship.
Sovereign wrote:481.3 meters to be accurate. But one scene of a Vorcha cannot change the proof of the others. The Dominion Battlecruiser is is 639.75 meters long, and it is Dwarfed by the Battleship as seen in this pic, which shows the Battlecruiser still ontop the Battleship.
One scene? Get your head in the daylight. You have exactly one shot of the 5km long ships. You can not provide ANY further evidence of their existance. Furthermore you can not adress the issue of "Where the hell did the 1.2s go?".
The 5km long ship fails all logic and is an obvious VFX mistake seeing as it was never seen before and the 1.2km ships disapeared at the exact same point. Furthermore it is IDENTICAL to the 1.2km ship in every single detail. You do not automaticaly assume a different class of ship simply because the size has been distorted. If that were the case then there are actualy 3 different classes of ship that look exactly like the Oberth.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Sovereign wrote:481.3 meters to be accurate. But one scene of a Vorcha cannot change the proof of the others. The Dominion Battlecruiser is is 639.75 meters long, and it is Dwarfed by the Battleship as seen in this pic, which shows the Battlecruiser still ontop the Battleship.
One scene? Get your head in the daylight. You have exactly one shot of the 5km long ships. You can not provide ANY further evidence of their existance. Furthermore you can not adress the issue of "Where the hell did the 1.2s go?".
The 5km long ship fails all logic and is an obvious VFX mistake seeing as it was never seen before and the 1.2km ships disapeared at the exact same point. Furthermore it is IDENTICAL to the 1.2km ship in every single detail. You do not automaticaly assume a different class of ship simply because the size has been distorted. If that were the case then there are actualy 3 different classes of ship that look exactly like the Oberth.
It wouldnt be the first time that there ships are identical but different in size. The B'rel and K'Vort class bird of preys for example. There is only one known Battleship that is 1.2 km and it was the Prototype. The Valiant exposed a flaw in its design and from the final episode it shows that there were at leat 3 or 4 of these ships in tha battle and i'm sure they were revised designs.
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