Something I noticed about Photon Torpedoes in DS9

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-12 11:19pm

After reviewing footage from Tears of the Prophets I noticed something. I had to watch it a dozen times to figure it out.

A Galaxy and Sabre were flying side by side and both firing torpedoes. Big size difference because this is Starfleets biggest next to Starfleets smallest.

Then it hit me. The torpedoes being fired by the Galaxy were MUCH bigger then the torpedoes fired by the Sabre. And we already know from First Contact that the Sabre fires the same sized torpedoes as the rest of the new ships as well as the Miranda and the likes.

Could it be part of the War Galaxy upgrade was giving it an improved torpedo launcher? We already know the Galaxy torpedo launcher is the biggest shown to date. Is it possible that rather then bother with more complex Quantum Torpedoes, they just gave the Galaxy bigass Photon's instead? This would explain why the Galaxy and Nebula were still heavy hitters even with the likes of the Akira and Intrepid in service. Both have these torpedo launchers. They also both have the largest ship mounted phaser arrays in the entire fleet. Only the large arrays on the Sovereign (Type-12s) are more powerful because of their being a newer type.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-07-12 11:51pm

I just fired up Tears of The Prophets again.

Where abouts is it in the ep?

EDIT: I just caught it, it is odd. Could it just be a perspective thing?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-12 11:55pm

The Sabre and the Galaxy are damned near side by side.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-07-13 12:00am

Ok, could they be using the "microphotons" we hear about every now and then?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-07-13 12:01am

Gandalf wrote:Ok, could they be using the "microphotons" we hear about every now and then?

Those are only used on Runabouts, and the attack fighter*.

* Edited for clarification, I forgot about the attack fighter.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-13 12:02am

Gandalf wrote:Ok, could they be using the "microphotons" we hear about every now and then?

No. Micro torpedoes are not fired out of regular torpedo launchers. Only the Runabout and Tac-Fighter have used them.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-07-13 12:47am

Could it be that the GCS was firing photorp "clusters" that we've seen before, like in "Arsenal of Freedom", "Yesterday's Enterprise", and "Booby Trap"?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-07-13 01:46am

I recall reading somewhere that there are types of photon torpedoes. Voyeger for instance IIRC has type 6. So the Galaxy class starship may be using a new type of photon torpedo. It might be like the heavy photon torpedo in the Terran Empire story.

Miles Teg · Post by **Miles Teg** » 2004-07-13 02:21am

GCS can fire multiple torpedos at once (See: Yesterday's Enterprise) that cluster and then separate. It's possible that the GCS was fireing multiple torps.

Allbran_Sustain · Post by **Allbran_Sustain** » 2004-07-13 08:24am

The first torpedo fired at the bird in "generations" was a huge one. I'm sure that I heard that the torps could be fired as one large cluster.

In one episode of TNG I remember the enterprise fired a torp which then split into 3 smaller torps before impacting on a klingon ship (it might be that epidsode where ent-c comes through the spacial rift and the klingons are defeating the fed in the alternate time line, at the end when the ent-d is covering ent-c as it went back into the rift)

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-07-13 09:27am

Aly, post a screen cap of those two ships flying side by side. I'm not doubting you, I just think that would be cool to see.

Btw, is the Sabre really their smallest starship? I would've figured the Defiant was.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-13 09:47am

Miles Teg wrote:GCS can fire multiple torpedos at once (See: Yesterday's Enterprise) that cluster and then separate. It's possible that the GCS was fireing multiple torps.

Those torpedoes always split up before hitting. While Generations had an order for a torpedo spread, we only ever saw a single torpedo durring the whole thing as well.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-13 09:49am

Aya wrote:Aly, post a screen cap of those two ships flying side by side. I'm not doubting you, I just think that would be cool to see.

Btw, is the Sabre really their smallest starship? I would've figured the Defiant was.

Well it seems the Defiant and Sabre are the same size. Ex Astris likes to think of the Defiant as 120 meters but I refuse to allow such a small ship to be that powerful and I go for the 170 meter figure which many of the visuals agree with along with the ships capabilities. 170m allows for the shuttlebay easier as well as a 5th deck. The Sabre is 172m. It takes whats in the 243 meter Miranda and packs it into a smaller frame.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-13 09:50am

No can do on a screenshot. Windows Media Player is a fucking bitch and doesn't like screenshots to be taken.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-07-13 09:52am

Alyeska wrote:
Those torpedoes always split up before hitting. While Generations had an order for a torpedo spread, we only ever saw a single torpedo durring the whole thing as well.

Ahh Generations. Another member of the "different looking photon torpedoes every film" club. I still think STFC had the best TNG photorps; with ST6 having the best TOS photorps.

So we see these larger torps hitting then?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-07-13 09:52am

Is it a DVD? If so you can't take a screenshot on most software, not just Media Player.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2004-07-13 09:53am

Alyeska wrote:
Miles Teg wrote:GCS can fire multiple torpedos at once (See: Yesterday's Enterprise) that cluster and then separate. It's possible that the GCS was fireing multiple torps.
Those torpedoes always split up before hitting. While Generations had an order for a torpedo spread, we only ever saw a single torpedo durring the whole thing as well.

It could've stayed clustered.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-13 10:00am

Vympel wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Those torpedoes always split up before hitting. While Generations had an order for a torpedo spread, we only ever saw a single torpedo durring the whole thing as well.
Ahh Generations. Another member of the "different looking photon torpedoes every film" club. I still think STFC had the best TNG photorps; with ST6 having the best TOS photorps.

So we see these larger torps hitting then?

All three of them. If this was a torpedo cluster then it means the Galaxy can fire three torpedo clusters in under a second. Torpedo clusters were always 5 torpedoes. 15 torpedoes in a second? That would be most impressive.

Allbran_Sustain · Post by **Allbran_Sustain** » 2004-07-13 10:16am

What I never understood was why the Feds didn't put more torp launchers onto their ships. Whats the limiting factor? Does it take energy to launch the torp, or does the torp have its own propulsion system? Whats stopping someone from putting 100 torp launchers onto ship?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-13 10:21am

Allbran_Sustain wrote:What I never understood was why the Feds didn't put more torp launchers onto their ships. Whats the limiting factor? Does it take energy to launch the torp, or does the torp have its own propulsion system? Whats stopping someone from putting 100 torp launchers onto ship?

Depends on the ship. There is also the issue of torpedo stocks. However, Starfleet did field several ships with more torpedo launchers. The Akira class has 15 launchers and the Nebula has up to 10. The Sovereign II has 9.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-07-13 10:23am

Allbran_Sustain wrote:What I never understood was why the Feds didn't put more torp launchers onto their ships. Whats the limiting factor? Does it take energy to launch the torp, or does the torp have its own propulsion system? Whats stopping someone from putting 100 torp launchers onto ship?

First of torps are big enouch to used coffins also few ship have more torp invetory that's bigger then 100 torps. I think there is also power limitions and there thing of not looking aggressive.

Allbran_Sustain · Post by **Allbran_Sustain** » 2004-07-13 10:34am

Their size would be a major draw back I agree.
The Akira has 15 launchers

Thats sounds impressive. Are the photorps weaker than phasors? If they could fire quantum torpedoes instead, then that would be something.
If cargo space for all these torps were to be a problem, then an extension to the hull of existing ships or a wiser use of space would be required. The cargo bays aboard the Enterprise would be able to store hundreds of torps if they were stacked one on to of the other. Emptying out some crew quarters and filling them with torps would also be an option.

By the way, where are the torps stored aboard a GCS? Are they in a shielded area to make sure an enemy can't get a fluke hit and and thus start a chain reaction of insternal detonations?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-13 10:38am

Allbran_Sustain wrote:The Akira has 15 launchers Thats sounds impressive.

Extremely. The Akira has 11 forward torpedo launchers, 2 port, and 2 starboard.

Are the photorps weaker than phasors?

Yes and no. Photon torpedoes seem to cause more shield damage and do shock damage to the ship. Certain phaser arrays are more powerful then torpedoes, but not all.

If they could fire quantum torpedoes instead, then that would be something.

Indeed.

If cargo space for all these torps were to be a problem, then an extension to the hull of existing ships or a wiser use of space would be required. The cargo bays aboard the Enterprise would be able to store hundreds of torps if they were stacked one on to of the other. Emptying out some crew quarters and filling them with torps would also be an option.

Realisticaly cargo space shouldn't be a problem. You could fit more then a thousand torpedoes into a basketball court.

By the way, where are the torps stored aboard a GCS? Are they in a shielded area to make sure an enemy can't get a fluke hit and and thus start a chain reaction of insternal detonations?

Supposedly the torpedoes are stored unloaded and they are loaded only shortly before being fired. Where they are stored and where their anti-matter comes from we don't know.

Allbran_Sustain · Post by **Allbran_Sustain** » 2004-07-13 10:59am

Yes and no. Photon torpedoes seem to cause more shield damage and do shock damage to the ship. Certain phaser arrays are more powerful then torpedoes, but not all.

Thats the really strange thing, if the torps are the equal of most phaser arrays then why arn't there more torpedo launchers than windows on the ships? I can understand why phasors are not that numerous, they take power directly from the power core. I'm guessing that the designers had some sort of submarine idea in the back of their heads since modern submarines have about 4 torp launchers also.

Indeed.

lol

Supposedly the torpedoes are stored unloaded and they are loaded only shortly before being fired. Where they are stored and where their anti-matter comes from we don't know.

ah, that makes sense. It would help avoid accidents and the enemy fire causing internal detonations.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-13 11:27am

Allbran_Sustain wrote:Thats the really strange thing, if the torps are the equal of most phaser arrays then why arn't there more torpedo launchers than windows on the ships? I can understand why phasors are not that numerous, they take power directly from the power core. I'm guessing that the designers had some sort of submarine idea in the back of their heads since modern submarines have about 4 torp launchers also.

Torpedoes require guidance lock and a computer targeting system that can handle them. Furthermore a ship that relies to heavily on torpedoes will lack phasers. You run out of torpedoes, your out of guns. Last of all to many launchers creates weak point in the hull.