Benefits of the Iraq War

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-07-11 11:57pm

Sure the US wasn’t initially the main backer and even put a stop to Israel, France and Britain’s little Suez adventure which I expect got you some + points. But overall from the get go the US has been a supporter of Israel this pisses Arabs off.

A revocation of support for Israel would not have solved our problems in the Arab world even prior to the War in Iraq. The United States is as much hated for its legacy outside of Israel as in. Bin Laden's main point of contention was the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia - originally posted there to prevent an invasion by Iraq -, not the issue of America's relationship with Tel Aviv.

My belief is that quite a bit of muslims had little to no use for us before the Iraq Invasion.

Yes and no. I have to agree with Plekhanov that invading Iraq made terrorism worse. On the other hand, the ultimate conclusion still falls out more along the lines you seem to be suggesting - i.e. that no matter what we did, hated was only going to increase once we began to try and deal with Arab terrorism. Since we've reaching the point that al-Qaeda and others have promised to follow the U.S. home even if we were to withdraw fully from Iraq, it doesn't seem that we have any choice but to fight for security in Iraq and hope that a stable situation there can be made to spread elsewhere.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-07-13 06:19am

Wilson & TE Lawrence asked the liberated provences be given autonomy, It was Congress that supported the land grab and nixed that idea...

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2004-07-13 07:17am

I wish people would quit peddling the bullshit that the Iraqi people are better off now (or will be soon) than they were under Saddam, because it just doesn't hold water. Aside from all the deaths, the average yearly income has fallen about 80%. Read that again. 80%! Our economy falls 1-2%, and we declare it the worst recession in 20 years. Imagine having 4/5th of your income go bye-bye. Iraq's national debt is something like 9 times their yearly GDP. It would take most of everything everyone earns in the country just to pay the interest. Needless to say, the probability of them defaulting is around 110%.

The electrical system has gone to shit, the country is fragmented, and the only feasible outcome is a regime much more repressive than Saddam's ever was. Saddam was a bastard who stole from his people and tortured and murdered those he didn't like, but he managed to create the most secular and most free Arab country in the region. The Bush Administration and the conservative apologist rapid response force has been spreading the notion that we're over there fighting for freedom and betterment, but the Iraqi people are LESS free and WORSE off now, and will be for a long time to come. They're pretty much screwed for the forseeable future.

Iraq has always been about one thing, and it wasn't betterment of the Iraqi people, or WMDs, or even oil. It's about deflecting the blame for 9/11 away from Saudia Arabia, the Bush families' best friends in the whole world, and they're willing to let millions of Iraqis and thousands of Americans suffer and die because of it.

The blood of every soldier who has died needlessly fighting a bullshit war is on Bush's hands. The toil and anguish of every single SD.netizen who's been shipped over there is on Bush's hands, and as far as I'm concerned, for helping propogate this situation, the legions of apologists all have a little of that blood on them, too.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2004-07-13 07:20am

RedImperator wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:The US gained nothing but the hatred of muslims worldwide.
You might have noticed they were flying airplanes into our skyscrapers BEFORE the war.

Yes, they were flying airplanes into our skyscrapers because they were angry at our "occupation" of their Islamic Holy Land. Hmm...

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-07-13 07:52am

Yes but the military industrial complex gets to go on, and tom clancy has new material to write new books about. Also from a government phallic sense, we need to remind everyone that we have a big stick. (yeah, a shame it came down to that.....)

moku · Post by **moku** » 2004-07-13 08:15am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Yes but the military industrial complex gets to go on, and tom clancy has new material to write new books about. Also from a government phallic sense, we need to remind everyone that we have a big stick. (yeah, a shame it came down to that.....)

Do the US really need to, or rather Bush, and those that instructed/advised, or whatever anyone wishes to call it, have to show off how big your stick is. No one cares. Bush needs to stick it into other people's and entire nation's businesses, and he has been doing that a bit too much recently, resulting in the hellhole that Iraq has come to be. Great, at least the fag is hopefully going at the next election, however it should not be up to the next president of the USA to say sorry to all the poor people and their families that now exist, roofless and living past the fringe of poverty.
Another thing. Howard said 'yes' to joining the "Army of Light", against the nation's will (Australia) and now there are charities that are set in place, by Howard himself that promote civilians to pay, in order to rebuild Iraq. What the fuck is wrong with him. No we'll blow the shit out of Iraq's infrastructure, and you, the civilians will have to pay to rebuild it. You are already paying for my retirement funds, but what the hey, a few hundred dollars from our dearly beloved tax payers is just going to make them happier, eh?
Bullshit.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-07-13 12:02pm

I wish people would quit peddling the bullshit that the Iraqi people are better off now (or will be soon) than they were under Saddam, because it just doesn't hold water. Aside from all the deaths, the average yearly income has fallen about 80%. Read that again. 80%! Our economy falls 1-2%, and we declare it the worst recession in 20 years. Imagine having 4/5th of your income go bye-bye. Iraq's national debt is something like 9 times their yearly GDP. It would take most of everything everyone earns in the country just to pay the interest. Needless to say, the probability of them defaulting is around 110%.

Bullshit, where do you get your statistics on the average yearly income? According to a USA Today/Gallup Poll taken in late April/May, over 80 percent of Iraqis have reported either the same family income they had before the war or an increase.

moku · Post by **moku** » 2004-07-14 03:03am

I wish people would quit peddling the bullshit that the Iraqi people are better off now (or will be soon) than they were under Saddam, because it just doesn't hold water. Aside from all the deaths, the average yearly income has fallen about 80%. Read that again. 80%! Our economy falls 1-2%, and we declare it the worst recession in 20 years. Imagine having 4/5th of your income go bye-bye. Iraq's national debt is something like 9 times their yearly GDP. It would take most of everything everyone earns in the country just to pay the interest. Needless to say, the probability of them defaulting is around 110%.

Source and authenticity?

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2004-07-14 04:59am

Joe wrote:
I wish people would quit peddling the bullshit that the Iraqi people are better off now (or will be soon) than they were under Saddam, because it just doesn't hold water. Aside from all the deaths, the average yearly income has fallen about 80%. Read that again. 80%! Our economy falls 1-2%, and we declare it the worst recession in 20 years. Imagine having 4/5th of your income go bye-bye. Iraq's national debt is something like 9 times their yearly GDP. It would take most of everything everyone earns in the country just to pay the interest. Needless to say, the probability of them defaulting is around 110%.
Bullshit, where do you get your statistics on the average yearly income? According to a USA Today/Gallup Poll taken in late April/May, over 80 percent of Iraqis have reported either the same family income they had before the war or an increase.

Word of mouth. I'll conceed it, but it doesn't affect the main point, which is that the Iraqis are worse off now than before and things aren't on track to get better

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-07-14 05:11am

what no electricity unless you are a foriegn Oil company employee?
hmm running water and sewage luxuries of the past?
yeah, things must be very pleasent.....

moku · Post by **moku** » 2004-07-14 05:13am

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Word of mouth. I'll conceed it, but it doesn't affect the main point, which is that the Iraqis are worse off now than before and things aren't on track to get better

Although I do believe your argument, I would like to point out that unsupported claims (via factual information, ie. show us a link) are considered by many, bullshit...

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2004-07-14 06:22am

`naeo wrote:
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Word of mouth. I'll conceed it, but it doesn't affect the main point, which is that the Iraqis are worse off now than before and things aren't on track to get better
Although I do believe your argument, I would like to point out that unsupported claims (via factual information, ie. show us a link) are considered by many, bullshit...

My dad told me, I figured he had his info straight, turns out he was wrong. Simple as that.

moku · Post by **moku** » 2004-07-14 06:39am

Hey, no worries.