Blastech T-21 and DC-15

[Lord Revan]

Lets end this it's going nowhere.

[Illuminatus Primus]

An "I concede" would be nice.

When the T-21 can concievably disable light spacecraft and vaporize people and I compare its role to a modern general purpose machine gun, and you prattle about ammo capacity, its clear you do not understand where I'm headed. It'd be nice to concede that rather than running off trying to save face.

[Lord Revan]

An "I concede" would be nice.

When the T-21 can concievably disable light spacecraft and vaporize people and I compare its role to a modern general purpose machine gun, and you prattle about ammo capacity, its clear you do not understand where I'm headed. It'd be nice to concede that rather than running off trying to save face.

IIRC main difference between an Assault rifle and a MG of the same caliber with an assault rifle you cannot just spray with full auto as the clip runs "dry" in just seconds (the E-11 clip 100 shot, but ROF 360 shot/min). MG is meant to be fired at full autoso they have bigger clips that clip size count's (unless DC-15 ROF far greater then you could spray at full for two minutes if longer). I think the DC-15 heavy Sniper/Combat rifle hybrid that's owerpowered and has insane clip size. As we're talking about weapons that can fired at full auto clip size becomes relevant. I agree T-21 is probaly more powerfull. BTW aren't GPMG usually 5.56mm or 7.62mm. also DC-15 has deal Dwarf spiderdroids as they can enter mining tunnels while AT-TE cannot.

[Illuminatus Primus]

You don't know anything about firearms.

[Lord Revan]

You don't know anything about firearms.

well not much taking to acount I have finished the military service that's a must for all finnish men.

[consequences]

Machine guns are designed for a higher sustained rate of fire, but this means 6-8 round bursts as a rule, not continuous full-auto. Going full-auto for extended periods drastically increases the odds of a jam, or a round cooking off once the weapon gets hot enough. To mitigate this trend, even when using the recommended bursts, a machine gun tends to be much heavier than an equivalent caliber rifle, and even then is usually designed for the barrel to be swapped out after extended periods of use.

Continuous full auto is something which is very rarely useful, as even with the tripod and added weight of the machine-gun, it is difficult to keep the weapon on target, and a short bust in the right area will do more to disable vehicles than just spraying the body with bullets.

[Lord Revan]

Machine guns are designed for a higher sustained rate of fire, but this means 6-8 round bursts as a rule, not continuous full-auto. Going full-auto for extended periods drastically increases the odds of a jam, or a round cooking off once the weapon gets hot enough. To mitigate this trend, even when using the recommended bursts, a machine gun tends to be much heavier than an equivalent caliber rifle, and even then is usually designed for the barrel to be swapped out after extended periods of use.

Continuous full auto is something which is very rarely useful, as even with the tripod and added weight of the machine-gun, it is difficult to keep the weapon on target, and a short bust in the right area will do more to disable vehicles than just spraying the body with bullets.

sorry my mistake, but isn't true that MGs have bigger "clips".

[Crayz9000]

Continuous full auto is something which is very rarely useful, as even with the tripod and added weight of the machine-gun, it is difficult to keep the weapon on target, and a short bust in the right area will do more to disable vehicles than just spraying the body with bullets.

sorry my mistake, but isn't true that MGs have bigger "clips".

Full-auto machine guns generally use belts, not clips. Some can use clips, but it's not that common from what I can tell.

The Browning M2HB, for example, uses a 100-round ammo belt.

[phongn]

Some MGs may use magazines, but AFAIK that's pretty rare. IIRC, they usually use belts feeding out of a box (which may or may not be attached).

[Lord Revan]

Continuous full auto is something which is very rarely useful, as even with the tripod and added weight of the machine-gun, it is difficult to keep the weapon on target, and a short bust in the right area will do more to disable vehicles than just spraying the body with bullets.

sorry my mistake, but isn't true that MGs have bigger "clips".

Full-auto machine guns generally use belts, not clips. Some can use clips, but it's not that common from what I can tell.

The Browning M2HB, for example, uses a 100-round ammo belt.

at least in finnish military terminology the belts are (IIRC) called clips(lipas being the finnish word used).

[consequences]

Machine guns are designed for a higher sustained rate of fire, but this means 6-8 round bursts as a rule, not continuous full-auto. Going full-auto for extended periods drastically increases the odds of a jam, or a round cooking off once the weapon gets hot enough. To mitigate this trend, even when using the recommended bursts, a machine gun tends to be much heavier than an equivalent caliber rifle, and even then is usually designed for the barrel to be swapped out after extended periods of use.

Continuous full auto is something which is very rarely useful, as even with the tripod and added weight of the machine-gun, it is difficult to keep the weapon on target, and a short bust in the right area will do more to disable vehicles than just spraying the body with bullets.

sorry my mistake, but isn't true that MGs have bigger "clips".

'Clips' is usually a misnomer, although their ammunition capacity is signfigantly higher. The only MG I am familiar with that uses a clip(Edit: magazine) is the M249, a feature that was apparantly added to improve versatility, and allow ammo to be cross traded within a squad. Unfortunately this doesn't work too well in practice, as the clip can't effectively feed the SAW fast enough, making jams a near inevitability.
Drums or belt feeds are the general rule, and often a second person is detailed to hold the belt straight on some weapons to prevent jamming(with a third person pissing on the barrel to cool it down in desperate enough situations). Increased ammo is necessary, as each squad is only going to have two MGs at most in all likelihood, and each one even temporarily out of action is a signifigant fraction of the squad's available firepower that isn't doing its job.
Edit: my mistake, magazine, I tend to intechangably refer to them as clips, and that's inaccurate terminoligy on my part.

[Ma Deuce]

'Clips' is usually a misnomer, although their ammunition capacity is signfigantly higher. The only MG I am familiar with that uses a clip is the M249

"Clip" is also a misnomer when referring to the box magazines of assault rifles (like the STANAG mags used by the M16 FoW and a number of other ARs). A "clip" is simply a clasp of metal that holds rounds by their rims, and is used to store ammo or quickly load it into rifles or magazines.

[Jason von Evil]

You don't know anything about firearms.

well not much taking to acount I have finished the military service that's a must for all finnish men.

I fear for Finland if it ever had to defend itself...

[Sea Skimmer]

"Clip" is also a misnomer when referring to the box magazines of assault rifles (like the STANAG mags used by the M16 FoW and a number of other ARs). A "clip" is simply a clasp of metal that holds rounds by their rims, and is used to store ammo or quickly load it into rifles or magazines.

Technically it's only a clip if you can only load the weapon by that way, and not by pushing in lose rounds. Most of those metal strips are actually called chargers and serve simply to speed up loading.

[consequences]

"Clip" is also a misnomer when referring to the box magazines of assault rifles (like the STANAG mags used by the M16 FoW and a number of other ARs). A "clip" is simply a clasp of metal that holds rounds by their rims, and is used to store ammo or quickly load it into rifles or magazines.

Technically it's only a clip if you can only load the weapon by that way, and not by pushing in lose rounds. Most of those metal strips are actually called chargers and serve simply to speed up loading.

We tend to call them 'clip strips'.

[YT300000]

'Clips' is usually a misnomer, although their ammunition capacity is signfigantly higher. The only MG I am familiar with that uses a clip(Edit: magazine) is the M249

There are quite a few of them, such as the RP-46, RPK, RPK-74, HK 21, etc, but they aren't made that often because of the problems you named. Also, in many cases they can also accept belts.

[Master of Ossus]

Your point has one problem. The DC-15 has same knockdown power as N-1 main guns (shielded droideka shot N-1 remains (droid blown apart) Unshielded batlledroid hit by N-1 (droid blown apart no signifigant incrice in firepower) unshielded droideka hit DC-15 (droid blown apart)).

All three Droidekas Anakin wasted in the hangar with the N-1's cannons were clearly shielded. What's more, the blast not only tore through the shields, but it ALSO did more damage to all three droidekas than the DC-15 did to the unshielded destroyer droid. If you'll watch the film, all three droidekas were TOTALLY dismembered by the blast. The first droideka he tags gives by far the clearest image, since it's closer to the camera than the third droideka and as the second one is being blown apart there's a cut to a different shot. The first droid shows clear signs of partial vaporization (there's a halo of red-hot material that dissipates extremely quickly--after only a frame or two), both "arms" go flying--at least one of them fractures into several pieces. The torso fractures into what I'm guestimating is a half dozen major components and a lot of smaller fragments. The "head" goes flying what I'm estimating as being a distance of about 10 meters before impacting into a pillar and coming to a halt. That's a LOT more damage than the DC-15 caused to the unshielded droid in AotC.

Moreover, against the unshielded battle droids Anakin scored maybe two GLANCING hits with his ship's guns. If you watch the film closely, you can see that both bolts that connect with a droid continue on well past the target, even though they're both obscured quickly by the sparks and stuff that fly from the droids. The first droid seems to have suffered a little worse for its damage. It shows what I would consider as being signs of "significant" vaporization. The head flies off immediately and remains structurally intact, but over the course of the frame or two after the bolt hits the droid's body seems to completely disappear, with small fragments flying off of it, so that only the legs remain along with small amounts of debris. The second droid that's tagged also sees significant portions of its "torso" cease to exist, and the remaining parts of the droid go flying three or so meters backwards before the camera cuts away.

[His Divine Shadow]

The modern equivilant to the DC-15 would be the M-14 or other 7.62mm rifle. A 12.7mm rifle would be fucking insane.

If something as cool as a 12.7mm rifle is insane then you can send me to the mental hospital.

[His Divine Shadow]

well not much taking to acount I have finished the military service that's a must for all finnish men.

As Ihave been in the same army as you I can tell you that if you think you know that it only teaches you how to fire and clean a weapon, mainly the RK-76 or RK-95 if your KJK or just in any other brigade than Dragsvik, you also get some cursory looks at MG's and get to fire & clean them.

Atleast I did, but most people here in the country here know far more about guns than the average city boy coming back from 6 months in the army.

[Lord Revan]

I concede.

[YT300000]

If something as cool as a 12.7mm rifle is insane

A .50 BMG combat rifle is completely insane. It has far too much recoil, and the magazine capacity would be pathetic. Also, you would only be able to carry a very limited ammo supply, and the rifle itself would be extremely heavy.

then you can send me to the mental hospital.

Come with me.

[consequences]

If something as cool as a 12.7mm rifle is insane

A .50 BMG combat rifle is completely insane. It has far too much recoil, and the magazine capacity would be pathetic. Also, you would only be able to carry a very limited ammo supply, and the rifle itself would be extremely heavy.

Now now, as soon as we either genetically engineer a much stronger, tougher human soldier, or just get cyborged up, we'll all be able to carry around gratuitously large weaponry.

[YT300000]

If something as cool as a 12.7mm rifle is insane

A .50 BMG combat rifle is completely insane. It has far too much recoil, and the magazine capacity would be pathetic. Also, you would only be able to carry a very limited ammo supply, and the rifle itself would be extremely heavy.

Now now, as soon as we either genetically engineer a much stronger, tougher human soldier, or just get cyborged up, we'll all be able to carry around gratuitously large weaponry.

But in a semi-realistic scenario...

[consequences]

A .50 BMG combat rifle is completely insane. It has far too much recoil, and the magazine capacity would be pathetic. Also, you would only be able to carry a very limited ammo supply, and the rifle itself would be extremely heavy.

Now now, as soon as we either genetically engineer a much stronger, tougher human soldier, or just get cyborged up, we'll all be able to carry around gratuitously large weaponry.

But in a semi-realistic scenario...

That is the semi realistic scenario. Apart from possible use with some form of electro-magnet anchoring system in low gravity environments, that monstrosity is going to be impossible to use as a standard issue weapon.

[Lord Revan]

I think we all agree that I'm an idiot. Could we just let this thead die.