Can Jedi wear armor?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-07-17 08:17pm

namdoolb wrote: Jedi not using armour seems to be more custom or tradition than anything else. They're keepers of the peace, not soldiers: any kind of obvious armour would send out the wrong message. It's also damaging to the image of the jedi as a whole, if he needs to wear armour, then he's not going to appear as all powerful as he should.

Remember anakins comment to Qui-gon in ep1, "no-one can kill a jedi" Would he have made the comment if all the jedi he'd seen or heard about were wearing armour to protect themselves?

Unless it's typical to culture from where that Jedi came from.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-07-17 08:53pm

It would be silly to wear armor under all circumstances -uncomfortable for one thing, and unless yhou're in a real combat situation, there would be no point to lugging it around or wearing it - and the Republic itself has had no large grround battles or standing armies prior to Geonosis for a LONG time. Furthermore, armor might be hinderance to the more diplomatic/peacekeeping functions of the Jedi, it might make them seem more warlike than they prefer to appear. And, of course, it could be simple arrogance.

A similar bit of logic may make one consider why few if any Jedi use blasters. They can and sometimes have carried or worn them (even in Old Republic times), but rarely do so, even though in some situations it would make sense.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-07-17 09:09pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:It would be silly to wear armor under all circumstances -uncomfortable for one thing, and unless yhou're in a real combat situation, there would be no point to lugging it around or wearing it - and the Republic itself has had no large grround battles or standing armies prior to Geonosis for a LONG time. Furthermore, armor might be hinderance to the more diplomatic/peacekeeping functions of the Jedi, it might make them seem more warlike than they prefer to appear. And, of course, it could be simple arrogance.

A similar bit of logic may make one consider why few if any Jedi use blasters. They can and sometimes have carried or worn them (even in Old Republic times), but rarely do so, even though in some situations it would make sense.

I agree on that unless typical for culture that a jedi is working in/with to wear seremonial armor it would useless to wear armor.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-07-17 11:40pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:
antitrek wrote:The most obvios example of a SITH useing armour, is of course, Darth Vader
And he got his ass kicked by a padawan with only a few years if intermittent training.

What the FUCK? Luke was a 'padawan' in ESB, and he got his fucking arse kicked.

In ROTJ, he was a full JEDI KNIGHT, and he beat Vader only by giving in to his rage (for a few seconds). The only reason why he stopped himself falling to the Darkside was because he cut off Vader's right arm, saw the mechanics, and realised he was becoming what he was fighting against - this is corroborated before, with the cave scene in ESB.

Darth was also REDEEMED by Luke, but all of that is irrelevant - his armour is good enough to withstand a glancing lightsabre blow to the shoulder (it cut through, but only partially - Vader made a grunt of pain, then sliced off Luke's arm).

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-07-17 11:47pm

Hey, what about those guys from I, Jedi who had force powers and lightsabers and suits of cortosis armor?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-07-18 12:19am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Hey, what about those guys from I, Jedi who had force powers and lightsabers and suits of cortosis armor?

OR Obi-wan Kenobi wearing armour in the CW cartoon?

OR KOTOR, where your Jedi characters can wear armour during the game (although CERTAIN jedi powers cannot be used)?

OR... you get the idea.

Jedi can wear armour. So can Sith. It makes sense. It's supported by the Canon, AND the EU.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2004-07-18 02:26am

Well, imagine a Jedi moving at obscene velocities via the power of the force. Wearing armor would increase the energy required by an order of magnitude. If the armor is metallic at all, force lightning would be bad news to use OR to have used on you. The REAL kicker is anti-blaster work, though, where perfect, unhindered mobility is king. I could see LIGHT armor with no joint protection, but nothing more. Take away a Jedi's ability to stand off half a dozen jerks with pistols and he's just a fool with a fancy butter-knife.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-07-18 03:33am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Hey, what about those guys from I, Jedi who had force powers and lightsabers and suits of cortosis armor?

The Jenn'saari or something like that.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2004-07-18 04:12am

Stofsk wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Hey, what about those guys from I, Jedi who had force powers and lightsabers and suits of cortosis armor?
OR Obi-wan Kenobi wearing armour in the CW cartoon?

OR KOTOR, where your Jedi characters can wear armour during the game (although CERTAIN jedi powers cannot be used)?

OR... you get the idea. Jedi can wear armour. So can Sith. It makes sense. It's supported by the Canon, AND the EU.

*sigh* And yet despite all this SOE decide to shit all over cannon (yet a-fucking-gain!) by not allowing Jedi players to even equip their lightsabers, let alone use Force powers, while in armour.

Sorry, I just have issues with Star Wars Galaxies right now. SOE bastards wouldn't know continuity if it came up, smashed them in the face and said "I'm cannon! Adhere to me!"

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-07-18 04:21am

Sorry I'm confused: who're SOE?

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2004-07-18 05:39am

Sony Online Entertainment, the fucktards responsible for the travesty of a game that is Star Wars Galaxies.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-07-18 06:38am

White Haven wrote:Well, imagine a Jedi moving at obscene velocities via the power of the force. Wearing armor would increase the energy required by an order of magnitude. If the armor is metallic at all, force lightning would be bad news to use OR to have used on you. The REAL kicker is anti-blaster work, though, where perfect, unhindered mobility is king. I could see LIGHT armor with no joint protection, but nothing more. Take away a Jedi's ability to stand off half a dozen jerks with pistols and he's just a fool with a fancy butter-knife.

Armour in SW isn'r made of metal. Stormie armour is hight grade Plasteel IIRC. It doesn't weight that much so it''s not gonna take that much extra to use force speed, also to quote Master Yoda, Size Matters Not. I can see where your comming from though, if i had on armour i'd forget how to duck too, jackass.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-07-18 09:02am

Let's not forget than in in-universe terms, Wars body armor isn't all that hot in the first place, what with every man and his Wookie dropping fully armored Stormies left right and center.
Like modern infantry helmets, it's designed to deal with shrapnel and maybe the ocassional low power/stray/slinter bolt, NOT full-on blaster hits.
As Jedi can deal with that quite by their lonesome, it makes no sense for them to wear armor unless there are additional concerns.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-07-18 10:20am

Other than Vader of course, and Dooku (supposedly his clothes are blaster proof and saber proof, "officially"), the Clone Wars series shows Obi-Wan wearing full ARC Trooper armor (until he loses his helmet in combat) and Mace Windu wears partial armor (at least the leg and arm pieces, perhaps more underneath his padded looking robes).

So yes, Jedi can and do wear armor, and there's no reason (outside of game balance mechanics) to stop them from doing so.

Even with Jedi abilities there are still good reasons to wear armor. Think of the Geonosis arena and all the Jedi there you died.

NCB weapons, shrapnel, and environmental concerns would merit armor, and leave the Jedi to focus more on his combat rather than trying to ward off stuff that a Stormtrooper wouldn't need to bother with.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2004-07-18 11:17am

In the EP2ICS there's a snipet on the page of the jedi starfighter, it says Kenobi chose to wear traditional clothing on certain missions over the semi-armoured flightsuit.

Most of the time I'm guessing they're just there for presence and to negotiate disputes, where as we have yet to see them in a pure soldier role, since all the Jedi were already in the arena when the clones arrived. Unless you want to argue Yoda should've came armoured

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2004-07-18 11:53am

Batman wrote:Let's not forget than in in-universe terms, Wars body armor isn't all that hot in the first place, what with every man and his Wookie dropping fully armored Stormies left right and center.
Like modern infantry helmets, it's designed to deal with shrapnel and maybe the ocassional low power/stray/slinter bolt, NOT full-on blaster hits.
As Jedi can deal with that quite by their lonesome, it makes no sense for them to wear armor unless there are additional concerns.

There's also the fact that, at least according to the AOTC Visual Dictionary, ordinary-looking clothing can easily conceal armor properties. At least one of Senator Amidala's dresses includes a decorative corset of lightweight armor and a blast-damping underskirt. Similarly, the purple outfit of Zam Wesell features a flexible armorweave jerkin and a blast-energy sink skirt.

The Episode 1 Visual Dictionary provides further examples. The burgundy coat worn by Amidala during the attack on the palace has a blast-absorbing pad concealed in its high collar, and the cloth itself is "woven with energy-absorbing fibers to protect against blaster fire." Similarly, the handmaiden who led the distraction that drew forces from the throneroom is noted as having worn: "...a distincitve battle dress that allows her maximum freedom of movement." The main component was a: "Long skirt made of blast-damping fabric."

Reasonably concealable bullet resistant armor is also not exactly unknown: hidden torso armor worn by Egome Fass, the large and muscular houk who acted as muscle for an illicit mining operation in Han Solo and the Lost Legacy, easily stood up to a burst from a drum-fed automatic carbine.

The relevant quote:

Han clamped the carbine stock to his hips and squeezed off a burst. The weapon stuttered with a deafening staccato and reeked of burned propellant. A stream of slugs plucked at the enforcer's chest but only ripped away fragments of cloth. Egome Fass was wearing body armor under his outsized coveralls. Before Han could adjust for effect, the humanoid lunged for cover.

Later in the novel, Chewbacca has a showdown with Fass. In the fight, Fass is not helped by his armor, though it is not explicityly stated that he is wearing it. Since the mining camp is in the process of being overrun by Xim's battle droids, Fass is the camp's enforcer, and Solo and company were pinned down just outside the camp immediately prior to the droid attack, there's no good reason why Egome Fass would not have been wearing his body armor. Since it didn't keep him from being squeezed in a bear hug and then snapped like a twig by Chewbacca, it's unlikely that the armor was made of large, solid plates. However, that's just supposition on my part.

In short, Star Wars technology can produce body armor that is either visually indistinguishable from regular clothing or can be concealed under loose-fitting clothing. That makes it entirely possible that some of the Jedi going into combat in AOTC were in fact wearing lightweight body armor, whether under their traditional outfits or styled after their traditional outfits.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-07-18 02:36pm

Patrick Ogaard wrote:Snippy for length-I agree

Absolutely. I was primarily thinking full body/torso military hard-shell armor, which would be something of a burden & limit to mobility (not to mention conspicous as hell) and STILL not protect against at least military-grade hand blasters (unlike the lightsabre which the Jedi carries anyway).

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-07-18 04:09pm

I think it's fair to say (unless we ignore the EU) that the Jedi, either through arrogance or poor training in war, simply chose largely to not wear armor.

Their unpreparedness at Geonosis taught them a lesson and "now" (Clone Wars Cartoon... NJO period) they know to wear full (or close to full) body armor and other protective gear into battle.

Even if a Jedi is wearing a light flak vest concealed under his robes, what good is it going to do him if he's exposed to caustic vapor, radiation, or hit with shrapnel in the back of the head from an explosion? He can't rely on the force to simply protect him from everything.

Perhaps private citizens, etc need concealment for armor, but soldiers don't necessarily need it (Stormtroopers don't hide their armor). As diplomats and enforces I suppose Jedi might conceal their armor, but it's clear they abandon it later on. Whatever they were doing before apparently wasn't effective.

I just hope this is confirmed in the next movie and they don't just expect the official materials to say they're all wearing full armor under their super strong clothes.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-07-18 05:00pm

I posted this excellent fan-art image of a hypothetical Ep III Jedi Knight in body armor; its gorgeous. Its reminiscient of both Vader's suit, and the Clonetrooper armor.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-07-18 05:03pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I posted this excellent fan-art image of a hypothetical Ep III Jedi Knight in body armor; its gorgeous. Its reminiscient of both Vader's suit, and the Clonetrooper armor.

I'm sure we would all be suitably impressed if you actually told us where you posted it

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-07-18 05:14pm

Here, in this forum, just a long time ago. Try going to the archive board, putting in my username and Jedi armor or something and seeing what comes up.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-07-18 05:31pm

Was that something you did or just something you found? 'Cause I thought I saw what you were referring to (sort of a Vader esque black stormtrooper outfit with a Jedi inside) at like theForce.net (I think it was).

Basically I want to see Jedi as actual Soldiers (tm) in Episode III, the way they should be, not as Federation redshirt groundtroops as they appear in AOTC. : (

George, listen to reason, screw game mechanics, forget the brain bugs, make the Jedi soldiers!

The other option would be to take the Jedi out of battle entirely and make them desk jockey generals, but that would be the boring route. We want to see Jedi kicking ass on the field and in space, so give them the proper combat attire!

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-07-18 05:47pm

Kurgan wrote:Was that something you did or just something you found? 'Cause I thought I saw what you were referring to (sort of a Vader esque black stormtrooper outfit with a Jedi inside) at like theForce.net (I think it was).

That's the one. It was awesome.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2004-07-18 08:38pm

In the CW cartoon, Obi-Wan didn't appear hindered -- physically nor in regarsd to Force abilities -- in his body armor. In light of the "not soldiers"/diplomat function of Jedi, it does make sense that they wouldn't go around heavily armored and armed. They can already seem intimidating enough, no need to heighten that sense.

However, in pure-battle contexts, such as Obi-Wan's situation in Clone Wars, it makes sense for them to wear body armor. And they do.

Perhaps Jedi not wearing it during the post-RotJ/pre-NJO era is due to a mistaken belief on his part (a brain bug, if you will), based off of incomplete information he obtained on New Republic Jedi.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-07-18 09:16pm

PS: I don't own the AOTC ICS, but I've read the copy they have at my local library.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it said that Kenobi chose to wear his ceremonial Jedi robes INSTEAD of the flight suit, not "over" (as in, over the top) the armor (assuming it was armored and not just protective as in, from the vacuum of space).

Still, what good would a flight suit do him if it has no head covering? Ditto for the Rebel helmets (yes, I know the retcon that they have this magnetic force field that seals the pilot, but why not wear a space suit? because stylistically George & co. wanted the bad guys to all be hidden behind scary masks and the good guys to see their faces... the same reason in a lot of "pilot" movies they rarely have their face masks and sun visors on, even though in real life they need them when flying, cause the actors want to be recognizable).

Also, the notion that "keepers of the peace, not soldiers" would not wear protective gear is not a logical necessity.

Police have kevlar vests, access to riot gear, etc. National Guardsmen have all kinds of military gear and hardware. While technically Guardsmen are soldiers, police are not, and yet they don't go out into the field wearing nothing but t-shirts, jeans and nightstick or tazer, which would be the equivalent of what the Jedi are doing rushing into battle wearing their tunic and bathrobes! And there are "UN Peacekeeping forces" which are full soldiers, even if their duty is to "maintain the peace."

There will always be those who oppose the peace (if force is necessary to maintain it) so it makes sense for them to take precautions.