USA's Protestant majority might[sic] soon be no more

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2004-07-23 01:43pm

By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY

New statistics on religious diversity show the USA's historic Protestant majority has plummeted to 52%, and by the end of 2004 it may no longer be the nation's dominant religious group.

The percentage of Americans who said they belong to one of several Protestant denominations, such as Baptist, Methodist or Lutheran, or who called themselves "non-denominational Protestants," hovered around 62% from 1972 until 1993, according to the General Social Survey. It was conducted by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago.

Then the number fell steadily to 52% in 2002, survey director Tom Smith says.

"Since colonial times, the United States has been a Protestant nation. But perhaps as early as this year, the country will, for the first time, no longer have a Protestant majority," Smith said in a report Tuesday. It was based on 43,000 interviews with U.S. adults from 1972 to 2002.

How quickly the scales tip depends on how statisticians count the rapidly growing Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Smith says. The survey makes a theologically controversial decision to include them as Protestants. Nearly 2% of Americans said they were Mormons in 2002.

However Mormons are counted, the trend is clear that the Protestant share of the nation faces "imminent disappearance," Smith says. Factors driving the change include:

• A steep rise in the number of people who said they currently have no religion: 14% in 2002, up from 9% in 1992. It's even higher for younger people: Among those born in 1980 or later, 27% said they have no religion. "Each succeeding group is less religious than the preceding," Smith says.

• The number of people who call themselves just "Christian" has nearly doubled. "That category didn't exist in the 1970s. It climbed to 1.2% in the last 10 years and it is 2.3% for 2003 alone. Most were once Protestants, Smith says.

• Among all immigrants - 10% of the U.S. population in 2002 - only one in four are Protestant.

The number of Roman Catholics (25%) and Jews (2%) remained stable over the same period, while the nation's share of other groups, including Muslims, Orthodox Christians, Buddhists and Hindus, rose from 3% in 1993 to 7% in 2002.

The loss of a shared Protestant vocabulary and viewpoint has political and cultural implications, says political scientist Corwin Smidt, director of the Paul B. Henry Institute for the Study of Christianity and Politics at Calvin College, Grand Rapids, Mich.

"Growing pluralism forces an examination of our commonality," he says. "How do we find basis for agreement" in schools, neighborhoods and voting booths?

"It's a lot more complicated now."

Can I think of commentary on this? No, no I can't. Still cool though.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-07-23 01:53pm

In with the new denomination, same as the old denomination?

sketerpot · Post by **sketerpot** » 2004-07-23 01:56pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:In with the new denomination, same as the old denomination?

The more fragmented they are, the harder it is for any given denomination to get political power. I count that as a good thing.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-07-23 02:17pm

The most positive sign is the growth of irreligiousness among young people. Mind you, a considerable portion of those who claim no religion probably believe in "some kind of higher power", as I've heard many people put it, so I wouldn't assume they're atheists, but that sort of vague spirituality is quite benign compared to the kind of organized dogmatic (and politically activist) institutionalism that has historically been the hallmark of major Christian churches.

It is amusing to see how some people are trying to pretend this trend does not exist. I saw Michael Medved on TV a while ago saying that "The Passion of the Christ" proved that America was "overwhelmingly Christian" by making $370 million in domestic box-office. So by that logic, Mr. Medved, since Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace easily outpaced "The Passions"'s box-office grosses even without inflation adjustment, does that mean America is even more "overwhelmingly" Star Wars fans?

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-07-23 02:27pm

Darth Wong wrote:It is amusing to see how some people are trying to pretend this trend does not exist. I saw Michael Medved on TV a while ago saying that "The Passion of the Christ" proved that America was "overwhelmingly Christian" by making $370 million in domestic box-office. So by that logic, Mr. Medved, since Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace easily outpaced "The Passions"'s box-office grosses even without inflation adjustment, does that mean America is even more "overwhelmingly" Star Wars fans?

Overwhelmingly star wars fans and followers of the Jedi Religion

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2004-07-23 02:32pm

Plekhanov wrote: Overwhelmingly star wars fans and followers of the Jedi Religion

I was gonna say that if religious material doing well in the cinema is indicative of religion, since jedi is a religion, it would imply that the US is overwhelmingly jedi.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2004-07-23 02:34pm

The church folks shouldn't worry at heart, moral absolutism can survive independently of religious convictions.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-07-23 02:45pm

wasn't there a survey a few years back that states 1% of the population claimed Jedi as a religion? That's what i'm putting down on the next census!

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2004-07-23 02:46pm

Peregrin Toker wrote:The church folks shouldn't worry at heart, moral absolutism can survive independently of religious convictions.

Yeah, but churches can't. Hence they should be worried.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2004-07-23 05:36pm

Darth Wong wrote:The most positive sign is the growth of irreligiousness among young people. Mind you, a considerable portion of those who claim no religion probably believe in "some kind of higher power", as I've heard many people put it, so I wouldn't assume they're atheists, but that sort of vague spirituality is quite benign compared to the kind of organized dogmatic (and politically activist) institutionalism that has historically been the hallmark of major Christian churches.

It is amusing to see how some people are trying to pretend this trend does not exist. I saw Michael Medved on TV a while ago saying that "The Passion of the Christ" proved that America was "overwhelmingly Christian" by making $370 million in domestic box-office. So by that logic, Mr. Medved, since Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace easily outpaced "The Passions"'s box-office grosses even without inflation adjustment, does that mean America is even more "overwhelmingly" Star Wars fans?

Hell, I saw the Passion and I'm a stone cold atheist. Didn't want fundies to make up shit about it without me being the wiser.

Veramocor · Post by **Veramocor** » 2004-07-23 06:44pm

Do they count evangelical christians as protestant?

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2004-07-23 07:26pm

Veramocor wrote:Do they count evangelical christians as protestant?

Well yes, since they're not catholic.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-07-23 08:54pm

Hang on, if 'protestant' just means 'not catholic', does that mean that more Americans are becoming catholic? Why would they do that? Catholosism (erm, sp?

) isn't the easist of religions to sign up for; how do they recruit with all their wierd rituals?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-07-23 09:02pm

Stark wrote:Hang on, if 'protestant' just means 'not catholic', does that mean that more Americans are becoming catholic? Why would they do that?

I can only assume you're joking. Protestants are non-Catholic Christians.

Catholosism (erm, sp? ) isn't the easist of religions to sign up for; how do they recruit with all their wierd rituals?

The fuck? What, you think the RCC makes any attempt to keep people out?

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-07-23 09:04pm

Do the Mormons qualify as Protestants? Because they're popping out kids like rabbits so maybe the US filling up with their spawn.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-07-23 09:12pm

No, I don't believe they do.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-07-23 09:35pm

No Howedar, I explained poorly. I did indeed mean 'non-catholic christians', and I do have trouble understanding how a thinking adult could get their head into the whole catholic thing; but then I think the only catholics I know are schoolgirls, so meh.

Is my understanding correct? That declining 'protestant' numbers means increasing catholic numbers? How can this work if people are joining splinter groups, since they'd be 'protestant' too?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-07-23 09:38pm

Of course the numbers of Catholics are increasing. Look at the U.S-Mexico border.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-07-23 09:40pm

Joe wrote:Of course the numbers of Catholics are increasing. Look at the U.S-Mexico border.

A much better explanation than people actually signing up. I can't really get my head around that. But I guess since they proslyetise so much, it must work... I just don't see how :S

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-07-23 10:41pm

That's good. I hope that more people get less religious enough so that religious leaders will no longer be able to force their morality and agendas on others.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-07-23 11:50pm

Stark wrote:
Joe wrote:Of course the numbers of Catholics are increasing. Look at the U.S-Mexico border.
A much better explanation than people actually signing up. I can't really get my head around that. But I guess since they proslyetise so much, it must work... I just don't see how :S

The old Jesuit line about giving them a kid and the church will have them for a life time is true. A lot of US immigration has come from Central and South America where Catholicism is the dominant religion; they're taught it from birth and it's passed down in families.

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2004-07-24 02:16am

Stark wrote:Hang on, if 'protestant' just means 'not catholic', does that mean that more Americans are becoming catholic? Why would they do that? Catholosism (erm, sp? ) isn't the easist of religions to sign up for; how do they recruit with all their wierd rituals?

Actually, Catholic mysticism makes it more viable, not less. Religion is inherently irrational. Real religious sentiments come from mystical feelings, not rational arguments. The various orthodox denominations, by embracing mysticism, make the spiritual more accessible and "real." Protestants, on the other hand, tried to get rid of all the mysticism, and in the process, got rid of a lot of their spiritual wealth. Listening to a long reading of the King James Bible and then to a half hour sermon just doesn't stimulate the spiritual sensibility as much as incense and ceremony and repetitive, ritualized litanies. That's why the vast majority of fundamentalists are Protestant (though there are Catholic fundamentalists, they're not nearly so numerous). Without mysticism, religion really can't stand up in the face of science and rationalism, so many protestants have to reject rationalism in order to hold on to their faith.

In fact, Catholics tend to be more educated and progressive than protestants. I don't know of even one respected Evangelical scholar, and evangelical colleges are mostly jokes; many aren't even accredited. There are however many well respected scholars who are Catholic clerics, and many Catholic colleges are held in good esteem, like Notre Dame and American University in Georgetown. However, in the long run, the Church is killing itself; already the American laity is at odds with the Hierarchy, and the American Hierarchy is just barely in line with Rome. Without ignorant immigrants, Rome probably won't be able to keep the loyalty of American Catholicism.

Protestants are the denominations descended from Luther and Calvin. There are also the schismatic churches - the several Orthodox communions and the Anglican/Episcopalian communion. These denominations broke with Rome more over political than theological reasons, and they maintained apostolic succession and the sacraments. Then there's the Coptic Church. The Egyptians never quite accepted orthodox Christianity, but that was long before Luther's protest, so that church is sort of in a category of its own.

Galvatron wrote:Do the Mormons qualify as Protestants? Because they're popping out kids like rabbits so maybe the US filling up with their spawn.

Mormons aren't really Christian, despite their claims to the contrary. They reject most of the core Christian doctrines, even those that protestant and orthodox denominations agree on, like the Trinity, and they hold doctrines which are flat out blasphemous to Christians, such as the belief that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers and that the good Mormon will become a god in the afterlife and be able to create his own world and people to play with.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-07-24 02:28am

Johonebesus wrote: Mormons aren't really Christian, despite their claims to the contrary.

Mormons are, by definition, Christian.

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2004-07-24 02:52am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Johonebesus wrote: Mormons aren't really Christian, despite their claims to the contrary.
Mormons are, by definition, Christian.

It depends on how you define "Christian." If you mean, "anyone who claims to follow the teachings of Jesus in any way, including atheists following the ethical 'philosophy' of Jesus" then yes, they could be called Christian, but, outside of the CLDS, not a single Christian theologian of any traditional denomination would say that a person who is not a monotheist is Christian. Absolute monotheism is one of the most important core doctrines of Christianity, so important that it caused the creation of the bizarre doctrine of the Trinity. To speak of a polytheistic Christian is an oxymoron, and Mormons simply believe that the Father is not the only god. Mormons are about as Christian as Christians and Moslems are Jewish, or as Buddhists are Hindu.

Cyborg Stan · Post by **Cyborg Stan** » 2004-07-24 03:02am

While there's multiple definitions of Christianity depending on the situation, the one that I usually go by is the simple one of "accepting Jesus as the lord and savior". Other than that, I can't really comment.