The Size of the Dominion

[Stark]

Indeed. Both of the two Birds of Prey seen in "The Defector" were Kvorts.

Not to be rude or anything, but did they actually SAY that? And the Defector BoPs scale to some huge size ANYWAY, so meh. There are alot of baseless assumptions around about ST ships, and I guess it'll stay that way.

[Sovereign]

Indeed. Both of the two Birds of Prey seen in "The Defector" were Kvorts.

Not to be rude or anything, but did they actually SAY that? And the Defector BoPs scale to some huge size ANYWAY, so meh. There are alot of baseless assumptions around about ST ships, and I guess it'll stay that way.

Actually, has anyone noticed that when a K'Vort class BOP is seen, even in attack mode, her wings are still straight? I think you can tell that its a K'Vort class not only by its massive size, but also from its straight wings. Like the ones in "Defector" and "Yesterdays Enterprise".

[Kamakazie Sith]

Indeed. Both of the two Birds of Prey seen in "The Defector" were Kvorts.

Not to be rude or anything, but did they actually SAY that? And the Defector BoPs scale to some huge size ANYWAY, so meh. There are alot of baseless assumptions around about ST ships, and I guess it'll stay that way.

Nobody specifically referred to them as K'vort cruisers, however, they had the same wing configuration and size as the three that attacked the E-D in "Yesterday's Enterprise"

Basically we're envoking the walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck then it is a duck "rule"

[Stark]

Nobody specifically referred to them as K'vort cruisers, however, they had the same wing configuration and size as the three that attacked the E-D in "Yesterday's Enterprise"

Basically we're envoking the walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck then it is a duck "rule"

The Defector ones were much larger, and NOT in a parallel universe. I'm not disagreeing, however, because I use both B'rel and Kvort to refer to larger models.

[Slartibartfast]

Here is my 10-foot pole:

I don't think that you can simply scale a ship upwards and say it's another model, because even if you somehow managed to make an identical shape, a lot of surface features would have to look different (wiring, piping and all that funny kitbash stuff). Just like a ship ten times as large probably doesn't have giant toilet seats.

[MrAnderson]

481.3 meters to be accurate. But one scene of a Vorcha cannot change the proof of the others. The Dominion Battlecruiser is is 639.75 meters long, and it is Dwarfed by the Battleship as seen in this pic, which shows the Battlecruiser still ontop the Battleship.

One scene? Get your head in the daylight. You have exactly one shot of the 5km long ships. You can not provide ANY further evidence of their existance. Furthermore you can not adress the issue of "Where the hell did the 1.2s go?".

The 5km long ship fails all logic and is an obvious VFX mistake seeing as it was never seen before and the 1.2km ships disapeared at the exact same point. Furthermore it is IDENTICAL to the 1.2km ship in every single detail. You do not automaticaly assume a different class of ship simply because the size has been distorted. If that were the case then there are actualy 3 different classes of ship that look exactly like the Oberth.

Why is it a VFX error. More logical in-story explanation is that the ship is not ready for action. The final battle Card Prime would have been a Battle of the Line like situation for the Dominion. So it would be logical that they dragged anything even vaguely spaceworthy there to help with the fight. For all we know the ship was almost completely non-functional and was brought there to merely draw fire and help the battle that way. I am sure as soon as it was spotted the Federation started shouting orders for maximum firepower to be targeted on that ship.

[Alyeska]

481.3 meters to be accurate. But one scene of a Vorcha cannot change the proof of the others. The Dominion Battlecruiser is is 639.75 meters long, and it is Dwarfed by the Battleship as seen in this pic, which shows the Battlecruiser still ontop the Battleship.

One scene? Get your head in the daylight. You have exactly one shot of the 5km long ships. You can not provide ANY further evidence of their existance. Furthermore you can not adress the issue of "Where the hell did the 1.2s go?".

The 5km long ship fails all logic and is an obvious VFX mistake seeing as it was never seen before and the 1.2km ships disapeared at the exact same point. Furthermore it is IDENTICAL to the 1.2km ship in every single detail. You do not automaticaly assume a different class of ship simply because the size has been distorted. If that were the case then there are actualy 3 different classes of ship that look exactly like the Oberth.

Why is it a VFX error. More logical in-story explanation is that the ship is not ready for action. The final battle Card Prime would have been a Battle of the Line like situation for the Dominion. So it would be logical that they dragged anything even vaguely spaceworthy there to help with the fight. For all we know the ship was almost completely non-functional and was brought there to merely draw fire and help the battle that way. I am sure as soon as it was spotted the Federation started shouting orders for maximum firepower to be targeted on that ship.

This explination ignores plenty of variables. One of them being WHERE THE HELL DID THE 1.2KM SHIPS GO.

[Chris OFarrell]

This explination ignores plenty of variables. One of them being WHERE THE HELL DID THE 1.2KM SHIPS GO.

To repeat what I said earlier, while I don't lean either way on the issue really, this is a false dilemma. There is no evidence the 1.2 klick ships WENT anywhere. We see plenty of Destroyer/Battleship type spaceframes in WYLB which could EASILY be either of the class.

And as I have said, we have precedent in Trek for ship types of differeing sizes looking identical. While I personaly think the 5 klick ship is an FX error, I am certianly not going to dismiss it until we actualy get some reasnoable evidence AGAINST it given the K'Vort precedent.

[Darth Wong]

The crew's surprise at the armament of the Scimitar would seem rather strange if it was in fact a 98-pound weakling compared to big monster 5km long ships previously encountered in battle.

[MrAnderson]

The crew's surprise at the armament of the Scimitar would seem rather strange if it was in fact a 98-pound weakling compared to big monster 5km long ships previously encountered in battle.

The only time though you saw the 5 k ship was before the battle over Card Prime which never really fully happened. So we are assuming that the ship really had any firepower at all. If it was in fact fully operational (and had firepower proportionate to its size) the Founders would have been fools not to use it since they were losing the war.

Maybe the 5 K ship was to be the flagship for the founders when they began their march towards Earth. Its construction was started in the AQ early in the war when things were going very well for the Dominion. Then as things went badly it became more of a liability than an asset and was finally dragged into orbit over Card Prime in some hope that it would serve some purpose.

BTW, I call it a liability because a ship that size represents enough material to build hundreds if not a couple thousand Jem Hadar attack ships which were very effective. Those ships which there were enough Jem Hadar to man would have been available sooner than any super ship and could have represented the firepower needed to win the war.

[Chris OFarrell]

The crew's surprise at the armament of the Scimitar would seem rather strange if it was in fact a 98-pound weakling compared to big monster 5km long ships previously encountered in battle.

Not really. I mean the STANDARD Dominion Destroyer (the 1.2 klick one) comes not that far off from the Scimitars weapons array if you take the 3 X a Galaxy figure. 30 phaser bank analouges. 6 * 10 shot torpedo bay capibility (the Scimitars torpedo launchers only appeared to be single shot).

Of course that entire sceen was horribly overdone with Troi looking like a gaping fish as she looked around the bridge. But no Romulan ship had ever come to THAT kind of firepower level, so its not that surprising that they were somewhat stunned by the shear power of the design. Even if it was just a defensive array on a mobile superweapon for all intents and purposes.

[Sovereign]

The crew's surprise at the armament of the Scimitar would seem rather strange if it was in fact a 98-pound weakling compared to big monster 5km long ships previously encountered in battle.

Not really. I mean the STANDARD Dominion Destroyer (the 1.2 klick one) comes not that far off from the Scimitars weapons array if you take the 3 X a Galaxy figure. 30 phaser bank analouges. 6 * 10 shot torpedo bay capibility (the Scimitars torpedo launchers only appeared to be single shot).

Of course that entire sceen was horribly overdone with Troi looking like a gaping fish as she looked around the bridge. But no Romulan ship had ever come to THAT kind of firepower level, so its not that surprising that they were somewhat stunned by the shear power of the design. Even if it was just a defensive array on a mobile superweapon for all intents and purposes.

I'm gonna have to agree with that.

[Ender]

The problem with the 5 km ship is the same as posed by initial arguments against the 17.6 km executor. I have seen some people argue that the bridge tower on the Executor was scaled up as well and thus cannot be a baseline. The problem with that is that there are a lot of little features on it (an airlock, tubing, deck windows) that don't scale up. They have to remain the same size for humans to use them.

Same holds true for the 5 km ship. Certain things just don't scale up. Ergo, SFX error.

[jubjub27]

i thought the baby changlings would not be home for 300 years and only then would they know about the alpha q., they didn't know - thats why they sent them...........................the theory of a 200 year in the future attack is bunk: They can defeat the federation without firing a shot, they don't need fancy tech/or many ships remember?