We're all big and fat

[Peregrin Toker]

Those averages are kinda scary. Especially the denial part

Indeed. Think of the kind of self-delusional willpower it takes to be unable to see your waist over your drooping belly and still convince yourself that you don't have a weight problem.

Hell, just watch the "big but beautiful" crowd and feel your brain die a little bit more. No, a normal women is not and never shall be a size 2 or 4. However, that does not mean that a 20 is beautiful. Ever. In any respect.

Size 2? Who use that size, except for vertically changed people, Grey Aliens and children?

[Peregrin Toker]

2) There's also the fact that obesity is far less convenient than being underweight. (unless you're so grotesquely emaciated that you can't even walk without putting your entire metabolism out of balance - I saw one of those folks on Oprah once) In short - most exceptionally thin people aren't at a disadvantage because of their physique.

It sucks at playing any sort of contact sport though. I ran full force at a friend of mine who weighs ~90Kgs.

I might be using a false dilemma or strawman fallacy, that's still quite a small disadvantage compared to being so big that you can't use a regular chair.

(I'm 183 cms/60kgs. Or 6'3" and 130lbs.)

:shock and awe:

Not to sound rude, but how do you keep such a low weight? Do you have a metabolism which rivals Jmac's?

Possibly. I have a BMI that puts me at "very underweight". I function well despite this.

Still, if I had your physique I'd do my best to put on at least 5 kgs.

[Gandalf]

2) There's also the fact that obesity is far less convenient than being underweight. (unless you're so grotesquely emaciated that you can't even walk without putting your entire metabolism out of balance - I saw one of those folks on Oprah once) In short - most exceptionally thin people aren't at a disadvantage because of their physique.

It sucks at playing any sort of contact sport though. I ran full force at a friend of mine who weighs ~90Kgs.

I might be using a false dilemma or strawman fallacy, that's still quite a small disadvantage compared to being so big that you can't use a regular chair.

You're right. I was just pointing out that there are disadvantages.

(I'm 183 cms/60kgs. Or 6'3" and 130lbs.)

:shock and awe:

Not to sound rude, but how do you keep such a low weight? Do you have a metabolism which rivals Jmac's?

Kick ass metabolism. 3 meals a day.

Possibly. I have a BMI that puts me at "very underweight". I function well despite this.

Still, if I had your physique I'd do my best to put on at least 5 kgs.

I've been trying for years. My record is 65kgs.

[Colonel Olrik]

You must be an itty bitty chap, then. I'm as thin as people my age get and I can't wear anything less than a large T-shirt without being uncomfortable.

You can see my pic in the Adonis competition, and I'm not too slim. My body fat is 7%, but I'm muscled enough and at 74 Km for 1.86 m not considered underweight (OK, it's in the border). I guess my body fat is too low, a consequence of having done intensive biking and other sports for the last ten years. It's obviously good in a way, but on the other hand I really need to eat often or I start feeling too weak to do anything.

Anyway, for example I'm wearing right now a Gant t-shirt of size M, and it fits fine. My european t-shirts have to be at least XL, and I usually find that there's a difference of at least one size between american and european clothes. Of course, it also depends of the manufacturers, so I'm just giving my general impression.

[Mayabird]

The most obese part of America is actually the South, from Virginia to East Texas (Texas as a whole comes out pretty well, though). What could be the reason for this?

The South is lower-educated on average, and there is a statistical correlation between education level and obesity for some reason. I'm tempted to say that poor health education is the cause, but that seems like a stretch; it's not as if university education is necessary in order to know that obesity is bad.

I think it is more related to income levels. Lower levels of education tend to mean less income earning potential. People who make less money often do not eat right because they go for the cheapest food available. If you made minumum wage it is cheaper to hit McDonalds for lunch than to go to Whole Foods.

Less educated, lower income, and more rural. The thing about cities is that it's a lot easier to handle day-to-day things without a car. If the grocery store is only a block and a half away or so, you can walk there and back to get a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk. Out in the boonies, the nearest grocery store might be fifteen miles away or more. You'd have to drive to it (and even then the selection is probably going to suck; the veggies often aren't good at all). All that walking or driving adds up in the long run.

[Guardsman Bass]

The South is lower-educated on average, and there is a statistical correlation between education level and obesity for some reason. I'm tempted to say that poor health education is the cause, but that seems like a stretch; it's not as if university education is necessary in order to know that obesity is bad.

I think it is more related to income levels. Lower levels of education tend to mean less income earning potential. People who make less money often do not eat right because they go for the cheapest food available. If you made minumum wage it is cheaper to hit McDonalds for lunch than to go to Whole Foods.

Less educated, lower income, and more rural. The thing about cities is that it's a lot easier to handle day-to-day things without a car. If the grocery store is only a block and a half away or so, you can walk there and back to get a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk. Out in the boonies, the nearest grocery store might be fifteen miles away or more. You'd have to drive to it (and even then the selection is probably going to suck; the veggies often aren't good at all). All that walking or driving adds up in the long run.

Yeah, but in the cities fast food also tends to be rather close- I have a grocery store about 500 feet from my house, along with a Subway, Carls Jr, etc.

[Master of Ossus]

Also, for whatever reason, the southern states seem to have developed a palate based almost solely around fats and oils. Country-fried steak? What the hell is that? Especially since it's usually served with gravy. Many of their other regional dishes also involve lard and a deep-fryer.

And it FUCKING SUCKXS!!!!111

Where's the fresh veggies? Where's the sushi? Where's the RICE!!? [snip]

What's REALLY weird about some of those places in the Midwest and American Deep South is the way they serve food in restaurants. EVERYTHING comes with the meal. In a normal (not too pricey) restaurant, a standard dinner comes with: two, sometimes as many as four sides, soup, entree, bread and butter (and sometimes another appetizer), drinks (you pay for wine and such), etc. BUT THE VEGETABLES COST MORE! And they're usually not very good vegetables.

Last time I was in Iowa I got a 14 oz steak, fried shrimp, baked and mashed potatoes, split-pea soup, fresh-baked bread, dessert from a rack, soda, and had to turn down macaroni or potato salad and coffee. All of this was only $12.50, and it was ALL good food (even the steak!). This is the SAME RESTAURANT that wanted to charge me $2.50 for a scoop of boiled vegetables. These areas of the country (and I doubt not elsewhere, too), have quite literally removed everything green from the standard diet. People there not only don't have to eat vegetables, but the meals are established such that they don't even have to notice what they're NOT eating. In fact, people who DO eat vegetables with their meals have to pay extra and order them specifically.

Mike is right. Society is completely normalizing obesity, and the Midwest and Deep South are particularly developed in their methods for doing it.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Also, for whatever reason, the southern states seem to have developed a palate based almost solely around fats and oils. Country-fried steak? What the hell is that? Especially since it's usually served with gravy. Many of their other regional dishes also involve lard and a deep-fryer.

And it FUCKING SUCKXS!!!!111

Where's the fresh veggies? Where's the sushi? Where's the RICE!!? [snip]

What's REALLY weird about some of those places in the Midwest and American Deep South is the way they serve food in restaurants. EVERYTHING comes with the meal. In a normal (not too pricey) restaurant, a standard dinner comes with: two, sometimes as many as four sides, soup, entree, bread and butter (and sometimes another appetizer), drinks (you pay for wine and such), etc. BUT THE VEGETABLES COST MORE! And they're usually not very good vegetables.

Last time I was in Iowa I got a 14 oz steak, fried shrimp, baked and mashed potatoes, split-pea soup, fresh-baked bread, dessert from a rack, soda, and had to turn down macaroni or potato salad and coffee. All of this was only $12.50, and it was ALL good food (even the steak!). This is the SAME RESTAURANT that wanted to charge me $2.50 for a scoop of boiled vegetables. These areas of the country (and I doubt not elsewhere, too), have quite literally removed everything green from the standard diet. People there not only don't have to eat vegetables, but the meals are established such that they don't even have to notice what they're NOT eating. In fact, people who DO eat vegetables with their meals have to pay extra and order them specifically.

Mike is right. Society is completely normalizing obesity, and the Midwest and Deep South are particularly developed in their methods for doing it.

God DAMN...

No fucking wonder sushi's so damn expensive. FUCK THE FATTENING OF AMERIKA!!!

[His Divine Shadow]

Sushi.... yuck.

[Tribun]

By the way.

Do you love these fat assholes who weigh 150 kilos or more, and demand to have two seats for the price of one in airplanes or cinemas? Or they complain that the seats are "too small". No fatsos, you are TOO FAT!

It seems the this problem is in America worse than here.....

[Peregrin Toker]

By the way.

Do you love these fat assholes who weigh 150 kilos or more, and demand to have two seats for the price of one in airplanes or cinemas? Or they complain that the seats are "too small". No fatsos, you are TOO FAT!

It seems the this problem is in America worse than here.....

This gives me an idea. Why haven't some really thin person demanded to pay half price for a seat because there can be two of said skinny person in said seat?

[J]

Anyway, for example I'm wearing right now a Gant t-shirt of size M, and it fits fine. My european t-shirts have to be at least XL, and I usually find that there's a difference of at least one size between american and european clothes. Of course, it also depends of the manufacturers, so I'm just giving my general impression.

North American clothing sizes are at least a size bigger than their European or Asian counterparts. A small here is a medium or large overseas, but there are brands outside of N.A. that are catching up to our sizes. This is based on my shopping during my travels around the world.

I have some cycling jerseys which my BF got for me from his store, the ones that are made in Canada (sugoi, Louis Garneau) are either mediums or smalls, while my Italian made Campagnolo jersey is a large and it's not any bigger.

[Master of Ossus]

No fucking wonder sushi's so damn expensive. FUCK THE FATTENING OF AMERIKA!!!

Well, actually, sushi is expensive for two main reasons:

1. Expensive ingredients. Fish and other sea food must be brought fresh and unfrozen, but cannot be stored improperly. Most sushi is cut from fish that are only a few hours out of the water, and have been kept on ice for some time. This is not the easiest thing to do, particularly far inland.

2. Very few people are genuinely qualified to prepare it, and those that are frequently don't want to work in restaraunts preparing food. This is something of a biproduct of the Japanese pattern of immigration to the United States. While Chinese immigrants tend to be uneducated and cooking is one of their few skills there is a surplus of potential Chinese food retailers, resulting in the very inexpensive prices of Chinese food (that and their frequent willingness to sacrifice quality for price). Meanwhile, Japanese immigrants tend to be extremely well-educated, and work in managerial or design positions. This substantially reduces the already small immigrant pool, meaning that very few people are qualified and willing to make sushi. This is the primary reason why Japanese eateries are more difficult to find than their Chinese counterparts, or even than the Thai and Vietnamese establishments that tend to more closely compete with them in terms of quality.

[Master of Ossus]

By the way.

Do you love these fat assholes who weigh 150 kilos or more, and demand to have two seats for the price of one in airplanes or cinemas? Or they complain that the seats are "too small". No fatsos, you are TOO FAT!

It seems the this problem is in America worse than here.....

That was one of the most egregious abuses by an obese person that I have ever read about. I got news for them: if they're too big to fit in an airplane seat, they're likely a significant hazard in the case of an emergency landing or similar.

Edit: And besides that, if they really are too big to fit in an airplane seat, they should be spending the money to buy a treadmill instead of traveling.

[Joe]

Actually, I've found that Japanese restaurants (especially steakhouses) are very common in America, but they tend to be rather expensive. You can't get cheap Japanese food the way you can get cheap Chinese.

[1337n1nj4]

I had a friend come here to visit from Australia last summer-- I live in the South as well.

To put it mildly, she was somewhat shocked at the amount of fatasses we have running around here.

I've had Europeans tell me the same thing, and I'm not surprised a bit.

I really don't know what it is, but for fuck's sake, it's not *that* hard to be a non-fatass. Being lean/ripped is one thing, but to be considered not fat is 15-20% for men and 20-24% for women. You don't even have to exercise to keep yourself in that condition.

Diet-wise, wrt cost, it can actually end up cheaper to go to the store and buy real food as opposed to eating out daily. You can get good meals for an average of 2-4 dollars if you actually buy groceries.

Just based on my experience and observation, fat people are that way simply because they lack willpower and discipline to do anything about it. I worked at a health food/supplement store last summer, and it was amazing to me how many truly obese people would come in and tell me all these stories about how they lost 20 lbs on the first week of the Atkins diet. Meanwhile, I had more than one gorge on two or three of the low-carb "diet" bars right in front of me....bars that are around 200 calories each.

People like that are looking for the magic pill, and there's not one. At the end of the day, the only thing that's going to cause you to truly lose weight is to eat less calories than your body expends. You can alter that balance by eating less, by being more active, or preferably both. Unfortunately, the vast majority of overweight people not only don't understand this, but wouldn't be willing to change it even if they did. You can cut your carbs down to zero, but if you're still eating 5K calories a day and not exercising, you're still going to be fat.

As far as BMI-- that's about a useless tool. Simply gauging your health risk based on simple height and weight without anymore qualitative data is worthless. It tells me that I'm severely overweight, and further, I'd have to be a little over 6'5 to be considered "healthy" at my weight. I've seen it do the same to a lot of other people. I wouldn't consider it accurate.

[Peregrin Toker]

Anyway, for example I'm wearing right now a Gant t-shirt of size M, and it fits fine. My european t-shirts have to be at least XL, and I usually find that there's a difference of at least one size between american and european clothes. Of course, it also depends of the manufacturers, so I'm just giving my general impression.

North American clothing sizes are at least a size bigger than their European or Asian counterparts. A small here is a medium or large overseas, but there are brands outside of N.A. that are catching up to our sizes. This is based on my shopping during my travels around the world.

I have some cycling jerseys which my BF got for me from his store, the ones that are made in Canada (sugoi, Louis Garneau) are either mediums or smalls, while my Italian made Campagnolo jersey is a large and it's not any bigger.

Ah yes. This explains why I read in a danish newspaper once on the "reader's opinion" pages an essay from a heavier young woman who complained about the lack of clothing suited for people like her.

Anyway, in my hometown, Roskilde, there's a huge clothing store which specialize in large sizes.

I worked at a health food/supplement store last summer, and it was amazing to me how many truly obese people would come in and tell me all these stories about how they lost 20 lbs on the first week of the Atkins diet.

The secret with the Atkins diet is not that it actually is healthier per se, but that a meal composed largely of protein is more sating and gives a quicker feeling of having eaten enough, than one mainly of carbohydrates. It's all a matter of psychology and the cooperation between soul and body and skeleton and... the glayvin.

[1337n1nj4]

I worked at a health food/supplement store last summer, and it was amazing to me how many truly obese people would come in and tell me all these stories about how they lost 20 lbs on the first week of the Atkins diet.

The secret with the Atkins diet is not that it actually is healthier per se, but that a meal composed largely of protein is more sating and gives a quicker feeling of having eaten enough, than one mainly of carbohydrates. It's all a matter of psychology and the cooperation between soul and body and skeleton and... the glayvin.

That's how it's supposed to work, anyway. The problem is, the initial weight loss in almost all cases is stored water and glycogen. Undoubtably there's some fat going with it, but it still amazes me how many people will associate losing scale weight with losing fat.

Additionally, these folks still don't have any will power with regards to food, which was the point I was making-- they'll still gorge themselves like mad, just doing it with protein and fat. At the end of the day, they're mesmerized by the immediate "weight loss" and don't think much of it a few months down the road when they're still very much fat.

Not saying people can't or won't make progress on Atkins or similar approaches, just that it, too, requires a caloric reduction in order for it to be effective, and a lot of people don't realize that.

[Howedar]

Hell, just watch the "big but beautiful" crowd and feel your brain die a little bit more. No, a normal women is not and never shall be a size 2 or 4. However, that does not mean that a 20 is beautiful. Ever. In any respect.

Size 2? Who use that size, except for vertically changed people, Grey Aliens and children?

You about covered it right there.

[Darth Wong]

Wait another few years at current trends, and a size 2 dress will be a fucking tent.

[Howedar]

Seems unlikely unless they start having double-ought dress sizes. You still need to clothe the occasional small person, after all.

[Darth Wong]

Seems unlikely unless they start having double-ought dress sizes. You still need to clothe the occasional small person, after all.

Youth and child sizes will suffice for that. With the obese kids coming up in the next generation, some of them already wear clothes for adults anyway. For that matter, some of the youth sizes fit perfectly well on smaller adults nowadays already.

[CrimsonRaine]

Not surprising, really. Just go outside-- obese people are way too common. Too much food, bad food at that, and too little exercise, combined with absolutely no desire or discipline to do what's needed to change it.

The bad part is that I beat those average measurements by quite a bit, except for the waist.

Hm. I think there's several things that add to it:

1. Apathy. I know MANY people who just don't care how much they weigh or what they're gaining. Many people think it's a society standard to be thin, and in spite, they refuse to diet. Most of them don't realize how much of a damper they're putting on their system.

2. Could it be the job market? We have a lot of sit-down jobs that are running us eight to ten hours a day. And along with quick eats, fast food is the fastest way to eat. My own mother has to get up at 5:00 in the morning to make sure she's all ready, along with making breakfast and driving to work. Why do that when you can just eat quickly at a McDonald's or some donuts supplied by the boss?

I could be wrong. These are just speculations.

Raine

[1337n1nj4]

Nah, you're pretty dead-on.

It's a combination of not caring, lifestyle, and food choice/availability.

I am a bit concerned with the acceptance of being fat, though. That's more troubling than any of it.

[PicardShark]

It doesn't help either that you can "Biggie Size" your meal for so little extra out of your pocket.