Mutually Incompatible Worldviews

[Iceberg]

The reason why American politics suck these days:

When Liberals look at Conservatives, they see Orrin Hatch
When Conservatives look at Liberals, they see John Walker Lindh

How the hell are you supposed to have a constructive national dialogue when one side sees the other as composed entirely of traitors?

[Joe]

When Conservatives look at Liberals, they see John Walker Lindh

If that's really what you believe, you'd best change the first statement to:

When Liberals look at Conservatives, they see Ann Coulter

[Iceberg]

If that's really what you believe, you'd best change the first statement to:

When Liberals look at Conservatives, they see Ann Coulter

If you wish. It seriously seems that the lunatics have taken over the asylum on the right side of the aisle, and I would suggest that if conservatives want to be seen any differently, they really should start policing themselves better.

[Stravo]

The reason why American politics suck these days:

When Liberals look at Conservatives, they see Orrin Hatch
When Conservatives look at Liberals, they see John Walker Lindh

How the hell are you supposed to have a constructive national dialogue when one side sees the other as composed entirely of traitors?

I think its more a function of the current trend in this administration of demonizing the other side and painting them in the most extreme light as possible, with bumper stickers proclaiming that John Kerry is Osama's man what else can we expect? How a National Guardsman that does not show up for duty can have the audacity to paint his decorated Vietnam veteran opponent as bad for defense is a bit absurd to me but this is the language of the new right. Demonize, divide and conquer.

[Joe]

If that's really what you believe, you'd best change the first statement to:

When Liberals look at Conservatives, they see Ann Coulter

If you wish. It seriously seems that the lunatics have taken over the asylum on the right side of the aisle, and I would suggest that if conservatives want to be seen any differently, they really should start policing themselves better.

Hoho, indeed? You're the ones who've mainstreamed a guy who before 9/11 was considered a nutjob by the bulk of the Democratic party, and no less of a mainstream Democratic figure than Al Gore has called Bush a traitor and Republicans nazis within the last few months with no apparent disapproval from the rank-and-file.

The Republicans let this kind of thing go on just as well, there's no civility, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to you claim that the Democrats can claim some sort of high ground here.

[Gil Hamilton]

Moral highgrounds don't exist in politics. It seems that an essential part of politics now is not to make yourself look good through good work, but make your foe look like he wants to destroy America. Democrats and Republicans do it both and all too much. No one is innocent.

That said, it does seem that Kerry is running alot less rediculous attack ads than Bush, at least according to the statistics I've heard and what I've seen on TV. The Ads here generally revolve around Kerry pimping himself and Bush saying what a terrible liberal Kerry is (alot of them are really transparently deceptive, as well).

[Darth Wong]

If Michael Moore had his own 24-hour a day television network which called itself "news" and used the slogan "fair and balanced", one could fairly say that there is just as much extremist bullshit propaganda coming from both sides.

[Stormbringer]

If Michael Moore had his own 24-hour a day television network which called itself "news" and used the slogan "fair and balanced", one could fairly say that there is just as much extremist bullshit propaganda coming from both sides.

No, he just makes mutli-million dollar movies and plays pundit on CNN instead.

[Darth Wong]

If Michael Moore had his own 24-hour a day television network which called itself "news" and used the slogan "fair and balanced", one could fairly say that there is just as much extremist bullshit propaganda coming from both sides.

No, he just makes mutli-million dollar movies and plays pundit on CNN instead.

And this amounts to as much coverage as a 24-hour a day "news" network ... how?

[SirNitram]

At the risk of calling down a jihad, but how the fuck can the Right claim the sides are evenly matched when one can walk into a bookstore and see books decrying every Liberal as a traitor, extolling the need to destroy 'Liberalism', and so on? Yes, the Left has some annoying loudmouths, but I do not recall any of them supporting the destruction of Conservatism, or the jailing of every conservative. But hey, it'd be insane to actually step back from the Golden Mean fallacy and look, wouldn't it?

[Stormbringer]

If Michael Moore had his own 24-hour a day television network which called itself "news" and used the slogan "fair and balanced", one could fairly say that there is just as much extremist bullshit propaganda coming from both sides.

No, he just makes mutli-million dollar movies and plays pundit on CNN instead.

And this amounts to as much coverage as a 24-hour a day "news" network ... how?

It doesn't, but then again how many people watch Fox 24-hours a day?

[Marksist]

No, he just makes mutli-million dollar movies and plays pundit on CNN instead.

I watch CNN quite a bit and I don't recall ever seeing Micheal Moore on CNN recentely, or ever. (In fact last week Larry King cancelled having Moore on the show and got someone else).

What I find annoying is how whenever I see conservative pundits or politicians on TV, their biggest attack against the left is that they are "liberal."

When did "Liberal" start becoming an insult? (This is more rhetorical, as I've seen the main reason is that the Dems are trying to move to the center to pick up the moderate voters). I personally don't mind being called liberal, but it seems the right is always throwing the term "liberal" and demonizing the left.

[Darth Wong]

And this amounts to as much coverage as a 24-hour a day "news" network ... how?

It doesn't, but then again how many people watch Fox 24-hours a day?

So you're still trying to find a way to argue that the number of nationwide man-hours of exposure to FOXNews is no greater than the exposure to Michael Moore?

[Stormbringer]

So you're still trying to find a way to argue that the number of nationside man-hours of exposure to FOXNews is no greater than the exposure to Michael Moore?

Not necessarily. But then again I'm not trying to dismiss the effects of everyone but Fox News either.

[HemlockGrey]

Incidentally, I've noticed a lot of right-wingers call CNN leftist (the incalculably stupid blog RightWingNews even has an oh-so-clever "Communist News Network" banner) but I've never actually seen any evidence that CNN is particularly to the left. Does anyone know of any?

Oh, and somewhat off-topic, but I heard someone claim that Geraldo Rivera is a liberal. Does anyone know about this?

[PicardShark]

I watch The Daily Show, which also has been accused of being too liberal. But, that's only because Bush gives them so much material to make fun of. Still, they're not especially kind to Kerry, who they make out to be robotic and vague. I read an interview with Jon Stewart and he says the show is not "anti-conservative, just anti-BS."

[Darth Wong]

So you're still trying to find a way to argue that the number of nationside man-hours of exposure to FOXNews is no greater than the exposure to Michael Moore?

Not necessarily. But then again I'm not trying to dismiss the effects of everyone but Fox News either.

Strawman fallacy. I never said no one else had any effect. What I said was that people who claim there's just as much propaganda coming from both sides have yet to back up that claim.

[phongn]

At the risk of calling down a jihad, but how the fuck can the Right claim the sides are evenly matched when one can walk into a bookstore and see books decrying every Liberal as a traitor, extolling the need to destroy 'Liberalism', and so on?

Well, to be fair bookstores tend to stock what they think will sell best in a given area. Most of the bookstores around here seem to have pro-DNC/anti-Bush books front and center.

[SirNitram]

At the risk of calling down a jihad, but how the fuck can the Right claim the sides are evenly matched when one can walk into a bookstore and see books decrying every Liberal as a traitor, extolling the need to destroy 'Liberalism', and so on?

Well, to be fair bookstores tend to stock what they think will sell best in a given area. Most of the bookstores around here seem to have pro-DNC/anti-Bush books front and center.

You'll forgive me for not assuming, sans evidence, that books with the calibur of focused hate going in the other direction exist.

Besides, I'm in a state where the Republican governer candidate is regularly considered the 'sacrificial lamb'.

[Stravo]

At the risk of calling down a jihad, but how the fuck can the Right claim the sides are evenly matched when one can walk into a bookstore and see books decrying every Liberal as a traitor, extolling the need to destroy 'Liberalism', and so on?

Well, to be fair bookstores tend to stock what they think will sell best in a given area. Most of the bookstores around here seem to have pro-DNC/anti-Bush books front and center.

You'll forgive me for not assuming, sans evidence, that books with the calibur of focused hate going in the other direction exist.

Besides, I'm in a state where the Republican governer candidate is regularly considered the 'sacrificial lamb'.

Actually here in NYC the anti Bush books are indeed prominently displayed. The anti Left books are not as visible, so I would tend to agree with Phongn on this matter.

[SirNitram]

Actually here in NYC the anti Bush books are indeed prominently displayed. The anti Left books are not as visible, so I would tend to agree with Phongn on this matter.

Herein lies my point. Yes, there are Anti-Bush books. How many exist that proclaim, on the cover, that all Conservatives are traitors? How many proclaim the need to 'destroy Liberalism'?

'Oh, there's anti-Bush and anti-Democrat, so both sides are equally as bad' is a Golden Mean Fallacy, people. Try not to forget your heads just because it's politics.

[RedImperator]

As I said in another thread, the worst left wing lunatics have been buried safely in the dim recesses of academia, where you can proclaim, with a straight face, that Marxism works and that Bush and Co. deliberately killed 10 million Afghans in the 2002 war and be taken seriously. Where do you think the neo-hippies carrying signs like "We support our troops when they shoot their officers" get their ideas? The lunatic right's message just sells more advertising (probably because "Hooray for God and Old Glory!" has a broader appeal than "Hooray for Marx and the International Brotherhood of the Workers and People!").

[Durandal]

I watch The Daily Show, which also has been accused of being too liberal. But, that's only because Bush gives them so much material to make fun of. Still, they're not especially kind to Kerry, who they make out to be robotic and vague. I read an interview with Jon Stewart and he says the show is not "anti-conservative, just anti-BS."

Of course, people who think The Daily Show is anti-conservative conveniently forget the thrashing that they gave Bill Clinton during his tenure.

[Howedar]

In many respects it was a different show then. Which is not to say that I think they lean especially left.

[Raptor 597]

No, he just makes mutli-million dollar movies and plays pundit on CNN instead.

I watch CNN quite a bit and I don't recall ever seeing Micheal Moore on CNN recentely, or ever. (In fact last week Larry King cancelled having Moore on the show and got someone else).

King or CNN rescheduled the meeting for better numbers I think. They had an interview at the DNC last night, but I didn't bother to watch it.