Grand Admiral Zaarin

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-27 03:58pm

Tribun wrote:That's most likely NR propaganda.

Unlikely. Shields allow you to survive a mistake and learn from it. Same thing with ejection systems. Tie series craft lack both.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2004-07-27 04:01pm

Vympel wrote:All I know is that TIE Fighter, being the original source material, never referred to Zaarin as anything other than Admiral.

The usage "Admiral Zaarin" does not properly indicate anything about his rank except that he is a flag officer. According to p. 121 of the Centennial Edition of the United States Navy's Bluejacket's Manual (published by the Naval Institute Press):

When you are introducing someone, you should use their entire title, but some -- such as vice admiral or lieutenant commander -- are too long and cumbersome to use in normal conversation, so you would shorten them by dropping the first part of their titles. You would introduce "Lieutenant Commander Jones" but you would then refer to her or him as "Commander Jones," or simply "Commander."

Also, according to p. 110 of Mary Jane McCaffree's and Pauline Innis's Protocol: The Complete Handbook of Diplomatic, Official and Social Usage, admirals, vice admirals, and rear admirals are all addressed in conversation as "Admiral Doe"; Protocol presents the rules of protocol as used by the Protocol Office, United States Department of State.

Ergo, it is wholly proper and correct to address or refer to GADM Zaarin as "admiral", without the "grand" modifier. This usage conforms in every way with actual usage in the Naval service and in modern protocol and etiquette. It in no way indicates that he is not a grand admiral. There is no evidence indicating that Demetrius Zaarin was anything but a grand admiral.

PUBLIUS

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-07-27 04:02pm

Alyeska wrote:Unlikely. Shields allow you to survive a mistake and learn from it. Same thing with ejection systems. Tie series craft lack both.

Unlikely on the former (we rarely see X-wings survive a full salvo) and flat-out wrong on the latter.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-27 05:28pm

Howedar wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Unlikely. Shields allow you to survive a mistake and learn from it. Same thing with ejection systems. Tie series craft lack both.
Unlikely on the former (we rarely see X-wings survive a full salvo) and flat-out wrong on the latter.

X-Wing shields allow for basic survival of enemy fire. Not great, but a hell of a lot better then no shields at all.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-07-27 05:34pm

Alyeska wrote:IIRC X-Wing Alliance does not have Zarrin in a Grand Admiral's uniform. IMO Zarrin self promoted himself to Grand Admiral in his own fleet. Its a pity he hated the Rebels so much. His forces would have helped them greatly, but on his own he could never hope to defeat the Empire. I think Zarrin had the equivilant of a Sector Fleet at his disposal. I remember 5 ISDs alone under his command that we get to kill.

Well see if Zaarin had a generic ROTJ-style uniform or a Piett-style uniform (if its the former, it means that the uniforms isn't evidence, but is a blooper, if its the latter, than it means he was promoted to GADM before his defection but after Lenzer's research station was annhiliated..

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-07-27 05:45pm

Alyeska wrote:
Tribun wrote:That's most likely NR propaganda.
Unlikely. Shields allow you to survive a mistake and learn from it. Same thing with ejection systems. Tie series craft lack both.

While it is true that Interceptors lack shields, Common TIEs are seen with them. This is not suprising, they have the same size reactor and thus same output and TIE interceptors are faster and since power increases exponentionally and momentum linearly, the power for those shields probably goes to the engines instead.

And IIRC we also see TIE ejector seats in the movies (ESB asteroid chase)

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-07-27 05:49pm

Photo of ejectors seat please, and sorry, you can't manufacture contradictions between EU and film and say because some filmic TIE/Lns or Starfighters have shields, that all TIE/Lns or Starfighters have shields when the EU says opposite. The correct conclusion is some TIE Starfighters observed in the films have shields, and many or all TIE Starfighters and Line Fighters in the EU do not. It is not rational to create the 100% shielded vs. 100% not shielded dilemma. Furthermore it is also an overgeneralization, and also you cannot prove that the unshielded Line Fighters and Starfighters have the same reactor mass as the Interceptor. Perhaps they're intentionally cheaper or less maintanence intensive, and thus smaller. Perhaps they have the room for the bigger reactor which could power shields, but they simply opt for without.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-07-27 05:53pm

Ender wrote:And IIRC we also see TIE ejector seats in the movies (ESB asteroid chase)

True, but IIRC even minor hit to TIE figther or A-wing turns it into a uncontrollable wreck (ESB and ROTJ), but X-wing survives minor hits (ANH).

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-07-27 06:21pm

Ejection Seat 1

Ejection Seat 2

I recall one more instance of an ejection seat, in the comic about a precursor mission against Admiral Giel's armada. A TIE pilot was shot down and "questioned" for codes which were used to surprise attack a small outpost. The outpost had codes for the armada, which let the rebels infiltrate it.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-07-27 08:02pm

Howedar wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Unlikely. Shields allow you to survive a mistake and learn from it. Same thing with ejection systems. Tie series craft lack both.
Unlikely on the former (we rarely see X-wings survive a full salvo) and flat-out wrong on the latter.

We also see an ejected TIE pilot in ESB, so it's clear that at least some TIE models sport ejector seats.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-07-27 08:06pm

Here's the CCG card of a TIE ejector seat. Note the lore, also.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-07-28 01:33am

Master of Ossus wrote:
We also see an ejected TIE pilot in ESB, so it's clear that at least some TIE models sport ejector seats.

Really? Shit that's awesome, never noticed that. Thanks for the pic.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-07-28 02:29am

Howedar wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Unlikely. Shields allow you to survive a mistake and learn from it. Same thing with ejection systems. Tie series craft lack both.
Unlikely on the former (we rarely see X-wings survive a full salvo) and flat-out wrong on the latter.

If Luke is flying it it may be a rebel modified Tie. Where did Luke get it from?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-07-28 02:58am

Do you have any clue how hard it would be to retrofit a spacecraft with an ejection seat?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-07-28 04:21am

Howedar wrote:Do you have any clue how hard it would be to retrofit a spacecraft with an ejection seat?

I love that. Especially considering the Rebel Alliance is struggling not only against the tyrannical Empire but also just to survive - Death Squadron being a bitch and all. They're also strung for cash, because they couldn't afford better defences at Hoth (for their ground personnel at least). They're also desperate enough to attack battlestations the size of Death Stars.

But they won't get into a starfighter cockpit with no ejection seat. Nah-uh.

Rebel Pilot: "What do you mean no ejection system? I ain't flying that! I don't care if it's the Empire!"

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-07-28 12:55pm

Lord Pounder wrote:
Lex wrote:
Stofsk wrote: Careful - Rogue 9 will challenge you to a duel to the death via X-Wing vs TIE.
Would be unfair. TIE's are crap and X-Wings own. Maybe if you give Vympel a TIE-Defender he can win.
Got some evidence to prove that? The books and movies have proved that TIE's can do pretty well against X-Wings, it just depends on the pilot.

It does indeed depend on the pilot. <insert bragging about my TIE Defender kills from a B-wing here>

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-07-28 04:26pm

On the subject of Zaarin being a addressed as Admiral, In the EU we see bother Thrawn and his eventual successor Pellaeon bothing being addessed as Admiral. A grand Admiral is still an Admiral.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-07-28 11:24pm

Stofsk wrote:
Howedar wrote:Do you have any clue how hard it would be to retrofit a spacecraft with an ejection seat?
I love that. Especially considering the Rebel Alliance is struggling not only against the tyrannical Empire but also just to survive - Death Squadron being a bitch and all. They're also strung for cash, because they couldn't afford better defences at Hoth (for their ground personnel at least). They're also desperate enough to attack battlestations the size of Death Stars.

But they won't get into a starfighter cockpit with no ejection seat. Nah-uh.

Rebel Pilot: "What do you mean no ejection system? I ain't flying that! I don't care if it's the Empire!"

That's also a reason why the Empire was able to outgun them with figters (besides the fact that they had Kuat, Fondor, and all the other major firms working for them) -- an attack fighter that lacks a hyperspace drive is certainly cheaper to build en masse than an atack fighter with such a drive. True, it did give the Alliance a mobility advantage, but that's not enough against ace fighters (though of course, the Empire was able to build hyperspace-cabable TIES, albeit in limited numbers: The TIE Advanced X1, the TIE Defender, and the TIE Hunter all come to mind.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-07-29 12:06am

TIE Hunter?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-07-29 12:20am

Howedar wrote:TIE Hunter?

Imperial TIE variant utilized in the video-game Rouge Squad. III. While as lightly defended as the other TIEs (as well as the standard TIE Lasers) , it is as fast as an Interceptor, and has a hyperdrive, ion-cannon, and proton torp. launcher.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-07-29 12:20am

Howedar wrote:TIE Hunter?

A craft apparently some elite force uses in Rogue Squadron 3.

Sorta has the wing design of a concaved TIE interceptor.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-07-29 01:05am

You forgot the hyperdrive equipped TIE Avenger (aka TIE Advanced- not Vader's one).

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-07-29 01:24am

I never did understand why the Empire didn't produce the Avenger in larger numbers. The Defender was so bloody expensive that years after Endor they still only built a handful. The Avenger was faster then an Interceptor with equal guns (standard Interceptor seems to have 4 guns while Piet and Vader had access to 10 gun armed Ints) and a good warhead capacity as well as being shielded and having a hyperdrive. The Alliance/NR certainly knew of its existance (mentioned even in a few books).

Why the bloody hell did the Empire just abandon the design? Its quite good. Like taking an X-Wing and giving it the speed of an A-Wing. Had the Empire had these fighters in squadron strength on every ISD the Alliance might have floundered.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-07-29 01:25am

Vympel wrote:You forgot the hyperdrive equipped TIE Avenger (aka TIE Advanced- not Vader's one).

I never said I knew everything about SW or the TIES

.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-07-29 07:39am

JME2 wrote:
Vympel wrote:All I know is that TIE Fighter, being the original source material, never referred to Zaarin as anything other than Admiral.
Well, there is a possible explanation; look at Worf -- a Lt. Cmdr who is continually addressed as Commander. We have a similar situation here, in my humble opinion.

Doubt it. When referring to Thrawn they almost always use "Grand Admiral", but with Zarrin it's always just "Admiral.