Perspective on the Obesity "Epidemic"

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-08-01 08:12am

A good read that I agree with. Read the creamy goodness here.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-01 10:35am

Speaking as one who is both currently morbidly obese and a recent patient for Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery, let me offer a couple of comments.

1. In my case, it wasn't McD's or any other corporation's fault that I became obese. Excess eating was a learned behavior that I acquired when I was a little kid in order to deal with the stress of my parents' divorce.

2. This was compounded by the fact that my Mother was working 16 hour days to pay the bills and I grew up (and out) eating Chef Boyardee 'lasagna' because she was never home to cook proper meals.

3. Its proven impossible for me to break the habits learned in early childhood.

4. Quitting smoking was easy compared to my battles with my weight.

5. The gastric bypass wasn't performed for cosmetic reasons. I had it done because my weight was either causing or exacerbating health problems such as diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol, heart murmur and arthritis.

6. The ABC program did have one valid point; that its easier and cheaper to buy junk foods than it is to buy healthy foods. Of course if the will to eat healthy isn't there, than the availability of good foods is immaterial.

The reason they continue in their Quixotic struggle is that they believe, in large or small degree, in the Marxist myth that the owners of the means of production make people buy things. With their Svengali-like powers, these capitalists can mesmerize people, turning them into consuming automatons, exploiting them, and pointing them towards dietary choices like chips and cookies and Big Macs when, under the control of the government, the choices offered would be highly nutritious fruits and fibers.

I don't know about the government control aspect, but corporations spend billions of dollars each year on advertising precisely because it is effective in motivating consumers.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-01 04:59pm

If you've already had the bypass, never mind what I'm going to write.

I had a serious weight problem from 1998-2002. I weighed 300#until I shed the weight. I was in a serious car wreck and left with an injured spine and having to take Vicadin just to get some sleep. Without exercise, and being on painkillers, I gained 80#. My family has a history of high blood pressure so obesity was another nail in the coffin.

I'm now down to 220#. Much of it was a change in diet, a support group at a fitness center and (crazy as this sounds) an intestinal virus that caused me to lose 40# over the course of two weeks -and nearly killed me. Another secret is red tea, which I now drink instead of soda. I was drinking a two-litre od Coke or Dr. Pepper a day. I found that instead of cutting unhealthy food and drink out, I should substitute something healthier has been a big help.

Good luck with your operation.

As far as the fast food joints are concerned, I avoid them like the plague. Parents and kids should avoid them, too and simply not let their kids watch TV shows that have advertisements for that lard-soaked refuse. It's funny that people have the time to complain about Howard Stern, who never hurt anyone physically, but do nothing about "food" that poisons their kids being pimped on the air.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-08-01 05:17pm

Well, i really only eat Burger King and McDs. I try to buy enough for the whole week and save it in the fridge. Although, i am a bit heavy, i weigh 230 now, i used to weigh more. I droped almost 30 pounds over the last few years, i dont recall the last time i weighed in before the 230 weight but it was at least three years ago i weighed 255. Oddly i never went above that, as far as i know. I'm just 'fat' but not obesce i dont think. So make of it what you will.

Personally i think it's genetics. I think some people just put on more weight than others, and that, combined with bad diet and some other factors, can make you obesce.

I too have a family history of heart disease, BTW.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-01 05:20pm

Dad's lost something on the order of 40 pounds since December after developing high blood pressure. He simply stopped eating stuff with salt and high fat in it and exercised a lot. Now he's back to eating meat, but still won't eat salt. I concede that this was made easier by the fact that we maintain a large and diverse garden, that Mom is a dietician, and that we own loads of bicycles for him to use, but it didn't seem all that hard for him to motivate himself after collapsing. For others, it may be harder. I don't know how much of a part any genetic predisposition to overeating/overweightness plays, but if it does, my family doesn't have it. So I really can't say how well that would work for anyone else. Not to sound like I'm blaming you, but how much of an exercise program did you attempt? And you didn't try the sham that is the Atkins diet, did you?

Anyway, good luck with the surgery. I hope it helps, since nothing else appears to have done so.

GoldenFalcon · Post by **GoldenFalcon** » 2004-08-01 11:30pm

I'm nearly 6' and am about 135-140lbs. Is this bad for me? My family thinks I'm a male anorexic.

Anyhow, I pretty much exercise every day (various, running/anaerobics/etc) and support that by eating enough of every food group. I also avoid fast-food and soda, heck a McDonald's cheeseburger tastes vulgar now (I tried to eat one the other day...) I plan on keeping this metabolism of mine for a long, long time...

Though I can say that 1-2 years ago I was severely overweight. Could barely do any sort of physical work, and always dreaded school gym periods. Kinda weird now that I do things I used to dread long ago...but blah. I improved a whole lot.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-08-01 11:39pm

I've never hada problem, so I can't understandthe mentality. I eat whatever I wat, when I want, then metabolize it off quick. That, combined with the fact that I workout almost every night, keeps me quite thin.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-01 11:55pm

Not to sound like I'm blaming you, but how much of an exercise program did you attempt? And you didn't try the sham that is the Atkins diet, did you?

My most sucessful attempt resulted in a weight loss of 120 pounds, but I put it back on because I couldn't sustain the willpower to maintain exercise/diet combo that resulted in the weight loss.
The diet was simply cutting back on portions and eating healthy foods. I didn't try Atkins or any other 'fad' diet. The exercise was walking and bike riding.

Like I said, a habit learned that early in childhood is the very devil to break. Perhaps psychiatric treatment for the compulsion may have been effective in the long run, but it's too late now as I've already had the surgery.

The surgery works by simply not letting me eat like I used to.

For example, today was my sister's birthday and they had a cookout.
Before, I would have eaten at least 2 cheeseburgers, a bratwurst or 2, and all of the side dishes.

What I actually ate consisted of 1/2 cheeseburger with no bun, a spoonful of barbequed pork, and 2 bites off of a bratwurst. It took me about half an hour to eat this little bit, and I felt full when I was done.

The drawback to the surgery is that I'm on vitamin and calcium supplements for the rest of my life, but that's a small price to pay to finally gain my health back.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2004-08-01 11:56pm

In the past 3 years I have gone from 145# to 177#. There are two reasons for this.
1. I went from jobs that had me on my feet and moving nearly constantly to a desk job.
2. I started hormone therapy for feminine problems.

For those who have to ask how #2 would affect my weight, please remember that some hormone therapy is nothing more than placing a woman on birth control. Birth control basically fools your body into thinking it's pregnant by adjusting the amount of hormones in your system. Pregnant women gain weight, both to feed the child and to help cushion and protect it from shaking.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-08-02 12:13am

I've never had much of a problem with obesity, so I can't speak from personal experience regarding that. I CAN say that the human body can withstand the worst that fast food has to offer if it's eaten responsibly. When I grew up, we used to eat fast food about 2-3 times a week. It probably wasn't the best thing for us to do to ourselves, but no one in my family developed serious health-related issues as a result of eating fatty foods. All of us maintained fairly active lifestyles, which no-doubt helped considerably, but I am very confident in saying that fast-food chains are not the problem, and are being targetted as scape-goats by people looking for an easy answer.

Having read the article, it's a fair indictment of how the inner-city has tastes that drive it to consume potentially fattening foods. The author has a point that the ABC reporting on the issue was stupid, but he fails to address a significant problem: it's not possible for one person whose tastes differ radically from those of society to expect the same services that other people take for granted. In the case of the individual they interviewed, it's too bad he can't get someone to stock fruits and vegetables for him.

The best advice I can give to people living in similar neighborhoods is that I know from talking to others that it's MUCH easier to keep weight off in the first place than to lose it while it's on. Eat foods in moderation. Try substituting things like pizza for McDonald's and other burger chains--they pander to very similar demographics, but pizza is MUCH healthier than burgers and fries.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-08-02 12:31am

Incidentally, I have trouble being sympathetic to the morbidly obese as a group. I feel sympathy for individuals, like Glocksman and for the guy in the article, but for some reason I find it difficult to see truly overweight individuals as a group deserving of sympathy (the way I see, say, Native American tribes). I'm not real sure why it is, but I tend to tell myself things like, "One does not wake up one day and find themselves 30kgs overweight." My thoughts on the really out-of-shape people I meet tend to run along those lines. It's probably short-sighted of me, but that's really how I feel. Should I try to change my opinion by devoting much more thought to this issue?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-02 01:00am

I am 5'10" 180-190 lbs. It is my fault I am slightly overweight, I eat well, but dont excercize enough, and have a slow metabolism. When in UUNi, i will be able to go to the on-campus gym and work out on a daily basis, and I expct to drop in weight.

as to a few of the claims presented by opponents of capitalism this one is... interesting

it offers only junk and fast food to those who need nutritious meals the most, and who can't get outside the city.

Flat out BS. Fruits and veggies are dirt cheap at a supermarket like safeway, or Wal-Mart. jesus christ, produce is cheap, only thing cheaper per lb is ramen practically.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2004-08-02 01:12am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:A good read that I agree with. Read the creamy goodness here.

Is it just me, or is he attacking a strawman that it's entirely the corporations which are to blame? I have never seen or heard anyone laying the sole guilt of the obesity epidemies on McDonalds and other big corporations.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2004-08-02 01:16am

Alyrium Denryle wrote: Flat out BS. Fruits and veggies are dirt cheap at a supermarket like safeway, or Wal-Mart. jesus christ, produce is cheap, only thing cheaper per lb is ramen practically.

You're full of crap. If my family bought all our veggies from the store, we'd be broke by now. That's why we have a garden.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-08-02 01:18am

Hamel wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote: Flat out BS. Fruits and veggies are dirt cheap at a supermarket like safeway, or Wal-Mart. jesus christ, produce is cheap, only thing cheaper per lb is ramen practically.

You're full of crap. If my family bought all our veggies from the store, we'd be broke by now. That's why we have a garden.

Have to agree with Hamel 100%, tomatoes going for $3.00-5.00 a pound is not what I call cheap!

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-08-02 01:28am

Master of Ossus wrote:I've never had much of a problem with obesity, so I can't speak from personal experience regarding that. I CAN say that the human body can withstand the worst that fast food has to offer if it's eaten responsibly. When I grew up, we used to eat fast food about 2-3 times a week. It probably wasn't the best thing for us to do to ourselves, but no one in my family developed serious health-related issues as a result of eating fatty foods. All of us maintained fairly active lifestyles, which no-doubt helped considerably, but I am very confident in saying that fast-food chains are not the problem, and are being targetted as scape-goats by people looking for an easy answer.

I'd have to agree with that, I often eat absolute shit but I don't eat to excess and I exercise a reasonable amount.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-02 01:30am

You're full of crap. If my family bought all our veggies from the store, we'd be broke by now. That's why we have a garden.

You ahve to shop around and look for sales, and o things properly of course. Go to a produce market. ut at least at safeway, white peachs 99 cents/lb. Brocolli is also IIRC rather cheep, frozen corn is cheap, then you use ramen for a bse for example, use a few ounces of Brocolli, cauliflower etc. You can make a full meal for 2 or three people for under a buck. You just have to do it right.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-02 01:34am

ok, lets be fair, a little over a buck.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2004-08-02 02:11am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
You're full of crap. If my family bought all our veggies from the store, we'd be broke by now. That's why we have a garden.
You ahve to shop around and look for sales, and o things properly of course. Go to a produce market. ut at least at safeway, white peachs 99 cents/lb. Brocolli is also IIRC rather cheep, frozen corn is cheap, then you use ramen for a bse for example, use a few ounces of Brocolli, cauliflower etc. You can make a full meal for 2 or three people for under a buck. You just have to do it right.

We don't have a produce market. We have... Krogers. And you know how they are with prices after they price everyone else out of the area.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-08-02 02:18am

Peregrin Toker wrote:Is it just me, or is he attacking a strawman that it's entirely the corporations which are to blame? I have never seen or heard anyone laying the sole guilt of the obesity epidemies on McDonalds and other big corporations.

I have. Usually I've heard people say things like, "They make it so easy to buy their food. It doesn't even seem to be that bad for you. They don't care about your health." Usually, they tone down their attacks on corporations and admit that they're only part of the problem, but I have heard people lay it on Micky-D's or Burger King like the entire problem is their fault. I seriously think that a HUGE chunk of the people who're overweight in this country are in denial over it. I admit that there are people who're overweight for psychological reasons. I admit that there are people who're overweight simply because they don't realize how bad it is. I admit that there are people who're overweight for reasons that may not be their own fault, but I also think that there are people who simply won't admit to themselves that they have a problem.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-08-02 02:25am

Frank Hipper wrote:Have to agree with Hamel 100%, tomatoes going for $3.00-5.00 a pound is not what I call cheap!

Holy shit! Where are you shopping? I've seen better prices in Japan!

Produce prices are EXTREMELY dependant on regional availability. In places like California (where I live), produce prices are extraordinarily low compared with other areas. Where I live, most fruits cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $.50-$2.00/lb. Vegetables generally stay around $.75-$1.50/lb, and the sale prices are lower. However, in the next state over fruit can be ridiculously expensive simply because of the high shipping costs and short shelf-life.

In general, fresh fruit is one of the most expensive categories of food for the number of servings gleaned (generally only a small fraction of a serving). This is a legitimate problem that some people may face. While shipping technology has improved dramatically over that of just a few decades ago, it is still very expensive to transport fresh fruit away from the farms and to more urban areas.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-08-02 02:40am

The Fry's in Johnson Ranch, Arizona...That was about 2 weeks ago, and they have gone down since then, but fresh fruit and vegetable prices have been insane this summer.

Cherries were $6.00 a pound a while ago.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-02 03:19am

Frank Hipper wrote:The Fry's in Johnson Ranch, Arizona...That was about 2 weeks ago, and they have gone down since then, but fresh fruit and vegetable prices have been insane this summer.

Cherries were $6.00 a pound a while ago.

Jesus, you are out in the fucking boonies... If the nearest frys as at a resort commuity in Queen Creek...fucking shit...

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-08-02 03:25am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:The Fry's in Johnson Ranch, Arizona...That was about 2 weeks ago, and they have gone down since then, but fresh fruit and vegetable prices have been insane this summer.

Cherries were $6.00 a pound a while ago.
Jesus, you are out in the fucking boonies... If the nearest frys as at a resort commuity in Queen Creek...fucking shit...

It's only 7 miles, there was much rejoicing when they opened, too. Before that it was the Fry's at Ironwood and Apache Trail, about 22 miles...

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-02 03:31am

Frank Hipper wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:The Fry's in Johnson Ranch, Arizona...That was about 2 weeks ago, and they have gone down since then, but fresh fruit and vegetable prices have been insane this summer.

Cherries were $6.00 a pound a while ago.
Jesus, you are out in the fucking boonies... If the nearest frys as at a resort commuity in Queen Creek...fucking shit...
It's only 7 miles, there was much rejoicing when they opened, too. Before that it was the Fry's at Ironwood and Apache Trail, about 22 miles...

*twitches*

Jesus H. Christ. I love living in a suburb. Within walking distance of no less than 4 competing supermarkets. Prices are GREAT!

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Perspective on the Obesity "Epidemic"

Perspective on the Obesity "Epidemic"

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