VSD vs. TradeFed Battleship

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-08-01 03:53pm

How many VSDs you would need to take out a Trade Federation Battleship or a Trade Federation Droid Control ship. Also many drenaughts it would take to do te same thing.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-01 03:55pm

One VSD, easily. The Trade Federation "battleship" isn't worth shit. Look at the gun layout. The VSd's broadside can bring far more weapons to bear than any one surface of the bitten donut ship. Especially if the Destroyer gets in front of the thing, where the docking bays create a hole in gun coverage.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-08-01 04:05pm

Rogue 9 wrote:One VSD, easily. The Trade Federation "battleship" isn't worth shit. Look at the gun layout. The VSd's broadside can bring far more weapons to bear than any one surface of the bitten donut ship. Especially if the Destroyer gets in front of the thing, where the docking bays create a hole in gun coverage.

and VSD doesn't have a nice clear target like the TradeFed Coreship.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-08-01 04:12pm

What?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-01 04:31pm

You know, I've noticed a trend. Revan keeps posting questions and shows no sign of bias in the asking, and then immediately leaps to agree with the first person to post...

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-08-01 04:40pm

a docked TradeFed Coreship can be hit from almost any angle, The bidge tower of the VSD is not so easy to hit.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-08-01 04:43pm

Rogue 9 wrote:You know, I've noticed a trend. Revan keeps posting questions and shows no sign of bias in the asking, and then immediately leaps to agree with the first person to post...

That and he often responds with near Garble-esque posts that often sound like they contradict the other person...

EDIT: Revan, we already know what these fucking ships look like, so you don't need to post any pictures of them.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-01 04:46pm

Hey there, Chief, might not want to steal bandwidth from TF.net or the Star Wars databank like that... I'd offer to host them if you really insisted on having them inlined, but don't want to be bothered with copyright, etc.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-08-01 04:48pm

Rogue 9 wrote:You know, I've noticed a trend. Revan keeps posting questions and shows no sign of bias in the asking, and then immediately leaps to agree with the first person to post...

Who says that I agree with you. I think that VSD is too little they call The TradeFed ship a Battleship so has have some firepower, also at least some of its gus can fire aft.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-08-01 04:51pm

Oh boy, arguments based on names!!

Revan, just so you know, a Trade Federation Battleship is longer than an ISD: They're more than 2 KM long. Additionally, they're just called battleships: in reality they're retrofitted cargo transports.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-08-01 05:02pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Additionally, they're just called battleships: in reality they're retrofitted cargo transports.

So there not powerfull as Executor or another ship that's build as a warship. The TradeFed Battleship are probaly somewere just under VSD In terms combat capability, because like you say they are retrofitted transports.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-08-01 05:08pm

To be blunt, Revan, someday you're going to have to learn how to figure out stuff for your own damn self. We're not all here to do your thinking for you...

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-08-01 06:04pm

Actually, if you want to include starfighter compliments, I'd give it to the TF Battleship. The TF BB can store a hellashish amount of droid fighters that could easily overwhelm a VSD's two squadrons and then conduct anti capital ship operations.

Toe to toe? No, the TF ships can't bring as many weapons to bear in any arc as the VSD can in its forward and perhaps broadsides.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-08-01 06:21pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Oh boy, arguments based on names!!

Revan, just so you know, a Trade Federation Battleship is longer than an ISD: They're more than 2 KM long.

2 miles in fact.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-08-01 06:26pm

Knife wrote:Actually, if you want to include starfighter compliments, I'd give it to the TF Battleship. The TF BB can store a hellashish amount of droid fighters that could easily overwhelm a VSD's two squadrons and then conduct anti capital ship operations.

Toe to toe? No, the TF ships can't bring as many weapons to bear in any arc as the VSD can in its forward and perhaps broadsides.

How much effective Anti-capship fire can the droid fighters muster though? Not that it matters an incredible amount, just the degree of overkill really.

The default loadout for a TF BB is 1500 Droid fighters, so even if each TIE kills ten, or even twenty droids before dying this still leaves a huge number to annoy the VSD with. Simply keeping a hundred or so fighters on each of the VSD's shield facings concentrating on evasive manuevers and taking the occasional potshot gives an enormous advantage to the BB, as it can focus nearly all of its shielding to face the Vic.
For added annoyance, if the Droid fighters don't have any effective heavy weapons, detach a group of a couple hundred, have them break off from the fight, go out a-ways, and accelerate back in to ram the Vic at near-c. While this tactic can only work if the TF ship can withstand the Vic's firepower for an extended period, it does have the potential to at least be a cost-effective, if not game-breaking tactic.

Possible fighter numbers if all of the ground warfare eqipment and transports are removed are really pretty scary. I think I once figured that you could fit somewhere around thirty thousand X-wings in the space the landers took up if you overlapped them as was done in the Wraith squadron books(okay, a little bit more cramming than that, but still potentially doable).

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-08-01 06:42pm

True, and evenif you had a thousand of the droid fighters shooting low kiloton shots, you get low megaton damage being spread out over or even concentrated in a couple arcs per barrage.

Not a shield buster, but since every individual fighter should be able to blast a couple shots in realitively small amount of time, your looking at a decent enough amount of damage upon the Vic's shields.

Don't know if the Vic's gotta teraton range shield like the ISD's and its not like the fighters alone could slag her, but it is helpful.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2004-08-01 07:18pm

I'd say the TFB's cargo-based design dooms them. You don't see an ISD's main reactor get hit by a lucky shot and chean-react the whole damn ship.

the TFB minus its 'cargo' probably doesn't mass as much as an ISD either. less armor, bigger compartments, inferior damage control and weapon coverage.

Plus the TF crews probably don't know how to fight as well as an ISD crew.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-08-01 07:46pm

Ignoring the fighter capacity a Republic Dreadnaught is sufficent to take down a Trade Fed Battle Donut.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-08-01 07:48pm

The RPG gives the Droid Starfighter proton torpedo launchers.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-08-01 08:10pm

Darwin wrote:I'd say the TFB's cargo-based design dooms them. You don't see an ISD's main reactor get hit by a lucky shot and chean-react the whole damn ship.

the TFB minus its 'cargo' probably doesn't mass as much as an ISD either. less armor, bigger compartments, inferior damage control and weapon coverage.

Plus the TF crews probably don't know how to fight as well as an ISD crew.

Just for shits and giggles, the stats on both;

1. Trade Federation Battleship.

(info from ICS EPI)

Design and manufacture: Hoersch-Kessel Drive Inc.
Diameter: 3170m.
Sublight engines: Rendili stardrive proton2 (primary) proton 12(secondary)

Droid starfighter ma. capacity: 1500 fighters
.
.
.
Armament: 42 quadlaser emplacements

Looking at the pic, the quadlasers are arranged in 'triple' batteries with six batteries per side, inside the 'trench' and the last six quad guns are on the dorsal rear engine 'block'.

The forward arc could bring a mininum of 12 quad guns to bear and perhaps up to 18 quads.

If you dip down a little and get below the dorsal rear emplacements, then a max of about 12 guns with a mininum of 6 can be brought to bear. But that is the direct forward arc. Off set it any from port to starboard an it can bring a lot more to bear.

A broadside could probably get all 6 batteries in the arc if at suffiecient range. So a broad side would be the optimal tactic for a TF BB.

2. Victory Class I SD.

(Galactic Empire data bank, stats from weg and XvT)

Manufacturer: Rendili Star Drive
Length: 900m
Sub light: 4 space units (?)
Weapons:
10 quad turbo lasers batteries
40 double turbo lasers batteries
80 concussion missile tubes
Shields 3200 SBD (?)
Fighters: 2 squadrons (24 Tie's)

The Vics got 50 TURBO laser batteries while the TF BB has 42 quadlaser batteries. The Vic owns it just on sheer firepower. I have no idea what the shield capability of the TF BB is though.

Obviously, the TF BB has a major fighter advantage though.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-08-01 08:16pm

Alyeska wrote:Ignoring the fighter capacity a Republic Dreadnaught is sufficent to take down a Trade Fed Battle Donut.

Again, taking from GEDB and they take theirs from WEG and XvT,

Dreadnaught class cruisers sport 10 turbo laser cannons, 20 turbo laser quads, and 10 turbo laser batteries.

I'm a little confused at to what they think a battery is in this instance, but it seems that a Dreadnaught has roughly the same amount of firepower as at TF BB. And definately a lack of fighter support.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-08-01 08:19pm

Quick question.

With the advent of the clone wars, did the confederacy stick more heavy weapons on the tradefed battleships, or just use other warship designs and convert the battleships into troop carriers?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-08-01 10:08pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The RPG gives the Droid Starfighter proton torpedo launchers.

ICS does not, would this not be a contradiction?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-08-01 10:15pm

Howedar wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:The RPG gives the Droid Starfighter proton torpedo launchers.
ICS does not, would this not be a contradiction?

It gives them energy torpedoes.. which are still a warhead. (IIRC WOTC just says that energy torpedoes are related to protorps or something.. maybe smaller warheads.) Each torpedo would have to be around 5-6 gigatons at least, though, for all 1500 to have a hope of penetrating a VSD's shield (assuming the VSD's stregnth is comparable to an Acclamator.. again rather conservative.) I don't think a droid starfighter is large enough to carry very many high yield warheads (at least internally.)

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-08-01 11:15pm

Not trying to dispute you, just trying to wrap my head around the numbers;

If all 1500 droid fighters fired one (1) energy torpedo at the Vic, and those torpedo's were rated at 1 kiloton, the total yield would be 1.5 megatons.

Since every droid fighter (ICS) has two energy torpedo cannons, if every one of the droid fighters fired a salvo of two torpedos, it would be 3 megatons.

Mikes site, and quite rightly, says that there is variable yield. Megaton to gigaton ranges.

If every fighter fired a 1 megaton energy torpedo, the total yield of 1500 fighters would be 1.5 gigatons. A barage would be 3 gigatons.

I guess, to really get in the realm of dropping a shield of an Vic (using the concept of 5 broadsides for a broadside on an ISD) the torpedo's would need to be at least 1 gigaton resulting in 1.5 to 3 teratons.

That would be considered a 'heavy torpedo' so, now I'm reconsidering my position. Mabybe combined with the barage of the TF BB, but even then.

The best they could hope for is for either the combined TF BB and its fighters to drop the Vic's shields and then have the fighters strike individual targets upon the Vic's hull, or the fighters can be used to manuver the Vic as to decrease the amount of guns it can bring to bear on the TF BB.

As it stands, I think I'll have to reverse my opinion on the TF's fighter complement tipping the scales. If a combined salvo of the 1500 fighters only yields a rough turbo laser shot, I don't see that they could really tip the scale much. Unless they can carry a large load out of 'heavy' torpedo's.